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Randall Maysin Again wrote: Wed May 14, 2025 3:20 am Come to think of it...who is this David Newman character? Has he ever written anything solo? I know literally not a thing about him other than that he was Benton's writing partner for a while. It's kind of hard to believe that someone as gifted as Robert Benton had a significant hand in the terrible script for Superman, but maybe he put in good work that was mangled in subsequent drafts or something. (And gosh, isn't Richard Donner one of the worst directors ever?)

The majority of what ended up on screen is believed to be by Tom Mankiewicz, who ended up with a “creative consultant” credit due to WGA arbitration issues. I think Mario Puzo did the basic structure, but the tone and dialogue is mostly Mankiewicz. Benton and Newman’s script was apparently more parodic and campy

Donner was wildly inconsistent, but he made gems for TV and film. I truly detest The Goonies

beamish14 wrote: Thu May 15, 2025 7:22 pm I truly detest The Goonies

Moi aussi, it's awful. I see literally no value of any kind in it. Scrooged is a fun time-waster, but that's about all I can say for the Richard Donner films I've seen. I just think of him as an utter hack who even under the best of circumstances diminishes his projects. The original writers of Scrooged had much more ambitious ideas for that film, and credit him for it being cut down to its trivial final size. They curse his name. And that's his best film...

The Omen would have a word about that.

Haha really? I remember thinking that the scene with the hell-hounds was elegantly crafted.....that's it! It's a totally rote film otherwise, for me anyway.

I found The Goonies unbearable too. Shrill and exhausting. I've only seen The Omen once and thought it was fine. Been ages since I saw Lethal Weapon. Fell asleep during the original Superman and never felt compelled to revisit.

Superman has a few incidental assets (that I'm pretty sure had nothing whatsoever to do with Richard Donner), like the great John Williams score, Christopher Reeves is certainly a wonderful Superman, a few throwaway moments of frivolous charm... Donner is a purveyor of chewed-up junk. The two films of his that have at least a decent visual sheen, Scrooged and The Omen, I credit that entirely to people like Gilbert Taylor, J. Michael Riva, and David Watkin (and these two films are hardly any of these person's best work). When he doesn't have visual craftsmen of that caliber, you get warehouse films that look like Superman and The Goonies.

I like the performances in Inside Moves, although the material really doesn’t rise to a whole lot. I’ve wondered if the final shot subconsciously influenced the ending of The Breakfast Club


Lethal Weapon and Conspiracy Theory are fun and still hold up for me

I haven't seen any of the films you mentioned, but what the hell ever happened to Diana Scarwid? She was such a promising young actress.

I rewatched the first three Lethal Weapon movies last year, and I continue to enjoy the cartoonishness of the second. The first one's fine, but I'm not as taken with its stabs at seriousness as its fans. Three is forgettable. I haven't seen any other Donner in decades.

I like 4 much more than 3, mostly because of my understanding that it didn’t even have a finished script when they started production in January and the finished movie was released in July. But also because it has some crazy stunts and decently wraps up the story at the end well enough that I find it a more complete sequel. Third is okay but felt a little too varied between comedy and drama where the others have a more natural mix.

I remember 4 fondly because it introduced me to Jet Li when I was 14 and big into martial arts movies, but I have no desire to revisit it.

Ladyhawke is also a fine movie, but I prefer the Charmed knockoff episode which is just such camp.

Also Lester Superman beats Donner everyday day and twice on Sundays.

I unapologetically love The Goonies, which still serves as the optimal representation of not only a childlike sense of adventure but also the youthful fantasy to become liberated from and best adults. I don’t really like any other Donners, even if this is more Spielberg anyways. I liked Conspiracy Theory as a kid, but a recent revisit wasn’t kind to it

Mr Sausage wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 1:42 am I remember 4 fondly because it introduced me to Jet Li when I was 14 and big into martial arts movies, but I have no desire to revisit it.

Michael Kamen’s music with Eric Clapton and David Sanborn is easily what’s aged the best from the entire franchise

I remember my dad telling me “how the bad guy died” in Lethal Weapon 4 and I couldn’t believe the insane All Of the Above answer. In real time, it wasn’t as cool

Mr Sausage wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 1:42 amI remember 4 fondly because it introduced me to Jet Li when I was 14 and big into martial arts movies, but I have no desire to revisit it.

I adore the car crash through the office building. The franchise became insanely overstuffed with stupid characters and goofiness. Joe Pesci should’ve been about 10 minutes tops in the 2nd and never appeared in the subsequent 2

Can't say I'm a fan of any of his films, but when I was looking over his filmography to confirm, I was surprised to see he was listed as an executive producer for the first X-Men movies and Free Willy. (Can't say I'm a fan of those either, though the latter inspired a hilarious joke from The Simpsons.)

hearthesilence wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 4:38 am Can't say I'm a fan of any of his films, but when I was looking over his filmography to confirm, I was surprised to see he was listed as an executive producer for the first X-Men movies and Free Willy. (Can't say I'm a fan of those either, though the latter inspired a hilarious joke from The Simpsons.)

Yep. Producer credit on X-Men by way of his widow/production partner Lauren Shuler Donner. I think he was briefly attached to direct in the late 90’s from an early script by Andrew Kevin Walker

therewillbeblus wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 2:05 am I unapologetically love The Goonies, which still serves as the optimal representation of not only a childlike sense of adventure but also the youthful fantasy to become liberated from and best adults. I don’t really like any other Donners, even if this is more Spielberg anyways. I liked Conspiracy Theory as a kid, but a recent revisit wasn’t kind to it

This is one of those generational things, to anybody who didn't catch this as a child when it came out, a bunch of annyoing children screaming their heads off for two hours was just about the most irritating thing possible. It anticipated the Spielberg of Hook (which also has an inexplicable fanbase among GenX) rather than coming close to ET (or even Gremlins).

I will stand up for The Omen, not a great film, but one that is a lot of fun. As a religious horror film popular at the time, it at least didn't take itself as seriously as The Exorcist. It works for what it is, and Peck and Remick give it some old-school Hollywood class. Superman is a mixed bag, but I think everything with Reeve and Kidder works a treat. The mistake was playing Lex Luthor for comedy, which lowers the stakes. The Donner cut of Superman II is a great improvement over the grating slapstick that Lester shoehorned into the film, though. Otherwise, I don't care for Donner's other movies. Were it not for the worst score in film history, Ladyhawke could have been a decent fantasy film.

Incidentally, I thought this was a thread about Ric Burns' powerful The Donner Party (1992). I've never seen a documentary that's as close to a horror film as this one, and few horror films are as atmospheric.

The Curious Sofa wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 6:13 am it at least didn't take itself as seriously as The Exorcist.

That's some faint praise though! I honestly can't think of another "classic" Hollywood film from the 70s that I think is as scandalously overrated, or as ugly and unprepossessing, as The Exorcist.

I can appreciate The Exorcist for its once original, formal qualities, aping a cinema verite approach that lends some verisimilitude to the supernatural aspects, but all the po-faced Catholic propaganda is laid on so thick that it is lost on me. I much prefer Exorcist III.

hearthesilence wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 4:38 am Can't say I'm a fan of any of his films, but when I was looking over his filmography to confirm, I was surprised to see he was listed as an executive producer for the first X-Men movies and Free Willy. (Can't say I'm a fan of those either, though the latter inspired a hilarious joke from The Simpsons.)

Free Willy was the first film I ever saw in the cinema. Funnily enough, I saw Moby Dick the same month on TV, which was the first time I sought out an old movie. I was an interesting 7 year old!

And who would have thought there would be two whale movies with slang for penis in the title!

This obviously has nothing to do with the merits of his films, but I was very struck by the way that Donner seems to have been unusually adored by his colleagues - and not just because he had a habit of quietly paying large bills on their behalf, including things like funding Corey Feldman's rehab.

Donner was a reliable journeyman director who would adapt his style to the script. I don't even know what to like or dislike about a director like him, there is no strong signature to his work. He managed to do justice to the character of Superman and capture the grandeur of that endeavour, The Omen is an atmospheric horror film that does justice to its set pieces and the Leathal Weapon films are efficiently directed action movies. He generally knew who to hire (let's ignore composer Andrew Powell) and has an eye for things like art direction. Lee Remick being knocked over a railing to the floor below by her son is an effect worthy of Hitchcock. If a film of his was bad, then usually the screenplay was to blame.

Peter Hyams is a comparable director who has his fans and whom I don't happen to like. If his films don't look ugly (2010, The Relic), they are too derivative of better films (Outland is like Alien without the alien). I remember liking Capricorn One, but on a re-watch I found it boring. I find most of his films rather dull, although A Sound of Thunder is so genuinely terrible that it qualifies as so-bad-it's-good.

The Curious Sofa wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 6:13 am

therewillbeblus wrote: Fri May 16, 2025 2:05 am I unapologetically love The Goonies, which still serves as the optimal representation of not only a childlike sense of adventure but also the youthful fantasy to become liberated from and best adults. I don’t really like any other Donners, even if this is more Spielberg anyways. I liked Conspiracy Theory as a kid, but a recent revisit wasn’t kind to it

This is one of those generational things, to anybody who didn't catch this as a child when it came out, a bunch of annyoing children screaming their heads off for two hours was just about the most irritating thing possible. It anticipated the Spielberg of Hook (which also has an inexplicable fanbase among GenX) rather than coming close to ET (or even Gremlins).

I disagree. I didn’t like the movie in my youth and I hate Hook, and only came back around to appreciating this in adulthood. There’s no nostalgic value there