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The Curious Sofa wrote: Fri May 30, 2025 6:57 pm

Randall Maysin Again wrote: Fri May 30, 2025 6:52 pm I wonder, now that Mean Old Man Lynch is no more, whether that will open the door to scholarly/analytical extras on physical releases of his work...? I also really hope that unfilmed scripts of his will be allowed to be filmed by other people.

What a truly awful idea.

brundlefly wrote:Harlan Ellison's "burn everything unfinished" rule always seemed best.

And yet it would’ve been an unspeakable loss to humankind if more people had agreed. We wouldn’t have most of Kafka, or the Aeneid, or the last few books of In Search of Lost Time, or much of the best material from The Man Without Qualities, or the second part of Dead Souls. Major, in some cases epochal, works of literature.

A sad but true reality is that artists can’t always be trusted to preserve or assess their art. Salinger’s absurd stipulations should have been ignored the moment he died. Sylvia Plath burning the only copy of her second novel. I’m sure there’s plenty more

domino harvey wrote: Fri May 30, 2025 7:30 pm A sad but true reality is that artists can’t always be trusted to preserve or assess their art. Salinger’s absurd stipulations should have been ignored the moment he died. Sylvia Plath burning the only copy of her second novel. I’m sure there’s plenty more

Frank Capra burning the original cut of Lost Horizon is among the craziest.

Salinger’s demands reflect how unhinged and ridiculous that man was.

Are there any examples of a work of genius being adapted successfully and at least reasonably faithfully to film by a however-talented someone else? I honestly can't think of anything at the moment, (and the sorry film versions of Fitzgerald's novels come to mind as counter-examples), but nevertheless I don't really see why it's impossible.

Randall Maysin Again wrote: Fri May 30, 2025 7:56 pm Are there any examples of a work of genius being adapted successfully and at least reasonably faithfully to film by a however-talented someone else? I honestly can't think of anything at the moment, (and the sorry film versions of Fitzgerald's novels come to mind as counter-examples), but nevertheless I don't really see why it's impossible.

Claude Lelouch making L’Enfer decades after Clouzot’s aborted attempt

There are any number of successful Shakespeare adaptations.

Well, Hellzapoppin', of course. I think that might be the only one.

Speaking for myself, I have a very specific idea of what a successful Shakespeare adaptation would consist of, that I've never seen embodied in any entire production, only in a few individual performances of specific roles in adaptations that are otherwise the standard deadwood, and don't make Shakespeare's language come alive and sound truly natural and felt, which for me is a feat something like turning stones into gold. Basically, Brian Cox in the Ralph Fiennes film of Coriolanus, and what I've seen of Olivier's performance in his Hamlet make the grade, and that's it. So it's a little strange to me that one would cite Shakespeare as a positive example--surely you don't have something like Polanski's Macbeth in mind? I wouldn't call that a work of genius.

beamish14 wrote: Fri May 30, 2025 8:03 pm

Randall Maysin Again wrote: Fri May 30, 2025 7:56 pm Are there any examples of a work of genius being adapted successfully and at least reasonably faithfully to film by a however-talented someone else? I honestly can't think of anything at the moment, (and the sorry film versions of Fitzgerald's novels come to mind as counter-examples), but nevertheless I don't really see why it's impossible.

Claude Lelouch making L’Enfer decades after Clouzot’s aborted attempt

Chabrol I think you mean. Preminger’s handling of Lubitsch’s work I find great even as he makes no real attempt to be Lubitsch.

Randall Maysin Again wrote:Speaking for myself, I have a very specific idea of what a successful Shakespeare adaptation would consist of, that I've never seen embodied in any entire production, only in a few individual performances of specific roles in adaptations that are otherwise the standard deadwood, and don't make Shakespeare's language come alive and sound truly natural and felt, which for me is a feat something like turning stones into gold. Basically, Brian Cox in the Ralph Fiennes film of Coriolanus, and what I've seen of Olivier's performance in his Hamlet make the grade, and that's it. So it's a little strange to me that one would cite Shakespeare as a positive example--surely you don't have something like Polanski's Macbeth in mind? I wouldn't call that a work of genius.

You’re surprised I don’t share your idiosyncratic view of Shakespeare? Why would I? Frankly your view does Shakespeare no credit. He was apparently unable to write language that sounds alive and natural coming out of people’s mouths. Not much of a dramatist, then.

I haven’t seen Polanski’s film in forever. I barely remember it. I did see Joel Coen’s version last year after rereading the play and it was marvelous. Throne of Blood is terrific too, as is Ran. Kurosawa’s two were Harold Bloom’s favourite Shakespeare movies.

You didn’t say the adaptation had to be itself a work of genius, just successful and “reasonably” faithful. I might say Apocalypse Now, but maybe it’s not faithful enough for you. Maybe Pasolini’s Trilogy of Life? Some on here might say Welles’s The Trial, tho’ I’m not the biggest fan myself.

Not to derail the thread much more, but the Quays' Street of Crocodiles and Institute Benjamenta are incredible adaptations of literary masterpieces.

Wojciech Has’ literary adaptations are striking and wonderful literary adaptations of the original works they’re based on as is Svankmajer’s take on Alice in Wonderland which captures the surreal nightmare of the book to a tee.

Just remembered: Murnau's Faust; Fassbinder's Berlin Alexanderplatz; Joe Wright's Pride and Prejudice (or indeed the tv miniseries). Andrea Arnold's Wuthering Heights. Plus any number of Dracula and Frankenstein adaptations. So, yeah, tons.

Time Regained, Charulata, Stalker, The Crucified Lovers, Double Suicide, Class Relations, Hunger. . . Where do you stop?

Speaking of Harold Bloom of Joel Coen I think it's worth bringing up that the Coen Brother's adaptation of No Country for Old Men is so unbelievably faithful to the book that it's genuinely amusing. It is precisely because of that fact that I think it works so well. There's no degree of pretension (That is to say attempts to warp the story to conform to some perceived cinematic standard) on Joel and Ethan's part in the adaptation and it's an example I like to give of a novel being adapted successfully in a modern context.

I don't really think this is the be all and end all though. Mr Sausage rightfully praises Throne of Blood and Ran for being successful adaptations that are absolutely deviations from the source material. I've never been convinced by what I personally believe to be an air of pretension about the absolute need for rigidity when adapting works because it's just not a realistic proposition all of the time. Throne of Blood is absolutely Macbeth just as much as Ran is King Lear. The (Hopefully self evident) demarcation point I think should be whether or not there's a level of cohesion within the adapted work itself. There's a very explicit reason I think that we're still talking about Throne of Blood and Ran and not the Mel Gibson version of Hamlet from 1990.

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No Country was originally written as a screenplay, which is why it was so naturally adaptable

swo17 wrote: Sat May 31, 2025 4:17 amNo Country was originally written as a screenplay, which is why it was so naturally adaptable

See also Something Wicked This Way Comes and Dances With Wolves. Summer of ‘42 was a hit novelization that many assumed was the source material for said film.

One thing that can yield interesting results is when a film is adapted for the stage. Film-to-stage adaptations have been happening since at least the 1950s, ranging from classics that become successful musicals, like All About Eve, which became Applause, to obscure films that turn into major shows and even bigger movies, such as the German film The Trapp Family, which got turned into The Sound of Music. I was very curious about Rufus Wainwright's musical adaptation of Cassavetes' Opening Night last year in London but the show flopped before I could make it. There are also more unexpected cases, like The Evil Dead and Re-Animator, which found new life as off-Broadway musicals.

Some films have even been turned into operas: Fassbinder’s The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant, Cronenberg’s The Fly, Hitchcock’s Marnie, von Trier’s Breaking the Waves and Dogville, and Lynch’s Lost Highway have all been adapted for the operatic stage. Additionally, there are many non-musical adaptations, such as The Graduate or Grey Gardens.

I hardly go to the cinema anymore instead I go to the theatre and the opera a lot more than I used to. At the end of the month. I’m going to see a five-hour stage adaptation of von Trier’s Riget.

Would this be a good time to bring up Spielberg's interpretation of Kubrick's non-made AI Artificial Intelligence? Or does that not fit the criterion?

The Curious Sofa wrote: Sat May 31, 2025 9:02 am There are also more unexpected cases, like The Evil Dead and Re-Animator, which found new life as off-Broadway musicals.

Some films have even been turned into operas: Fassbinder’s The Bitter Tears of Petra von Kant, Cronenberg’s The Fly, Hitchcock’s Marnie, von Trier’s Breaking the Waves and Dogville, and Lynch’s Lost Highway have all been adapted for the operatic stage. Additionally, there are many non-musical adaptations, such as The Graduate or Grey Gardens.

I hardly go to the cinema anymore instead I go to the theatre and the opera a lot more than I used to. At the end of the month. I’m going to see a five-hour stage adaptation of von Trier’s Riget.

A musical of Rocky was in the works for a time, and Carrie had a very short-lived Broadway show that had a book from the screenwriter of the film, and it is more of an adaptation of the film than Stephen King’s source material

Carrie was one of the most legendary theatrical flops of all time. I saw it after it had been rewritten and reconceived as an Off Broadway show many years later and then made its way to London. It was actually great fun. It followed the structure film of the film but also went back to the book.in some cases.

The Shark is Broken, a play about the making of Jaws has be a big hit in London and NYC.