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DrewReiber wrote:

Beatty's "Dick Tracy" is a mediocre film

I will fight you to the death over that statement!!!!!!

I'm with you on this one. Dick Tracy is awesome.

Antoine Doinel wrote:I'm with you on this one. Dick Tracy is awesome.

You know, there's a persistent rumor that there is an R-rated level prior cut that Beatty had, where it was also in it's proper academy ratio (which makes a lot more sense). Too bad Disney basically emptied out their live-action special edition department, because this movie badly needs it.

The only good thing to come from that movie were those awesome scratch and win cards from McDonalds

domino harvey wrote:The only good thing to come from that movie were those awesome scratch and win cards from McDonalds

Yer goin' down!

DrewReiber wrote:

Antoine Doinel wrote:I'm with you on this one. Dick Tracy is awesome.

You know, there's a persistent rumor that there is an R-rated level prior cut that Beatty had, where it was also in it's proper academy ratio (which makes a lot more sense). Too bad Disney basically emptied out their live-action special edition department, because this movie badly needs it.

According to IMDB the original cut of the film was 135 minutes which Disney forced Beatty to cut down. Whether or not it was R-rated I guess we'll never know as I think there is still a lot of bad blood and rights issues holding up the DVD release.

Further spillover from the Dark Knight thread:

LionelHutz wrote:

DrewReiber wrote:

Beatty's "Dick Tracy" is a mediocre film

I will fight you to the death over that statement!

I'm a big fan of that film too,but realistically if I forget for a minute the great photography and the baroque sets I'm left with a disappointing film.Anyway since I do believe the priority of a comic book movie is to capture the mood of the source,Dick Tracy earns all my respect.

drewreiber wrote:

LionelHutz wrote:I'm a big fan of that film too,but realistically if I forget for a minute the great photography and the baroque sets I'm left with a disappointing film.Anyway since I do believe the priority of a comic book movie is to capture the mood of the source,Dick Tracy earns all my respect.

Are you a fan of the early studios gangster cycle?

Anyone who doesn't love this movie should just die. Seriously, what must be wrong with you? Setting aside our anal obsession over things like the masterful set and makeup design and terrific performances, Dick Tracy is just good ol' fashioned fun of the highest order.

Antoine Doinel wrote:Whether or not it was R-rated I guess we'll never know as I think there is still a lot of bad blood and rights issues holding up the DVD release.

No, there is bad blood and rights issues holding up the next film. The DVD release is going nowhere because Disney doesn't care. For example, look at the non-anamorphic DVD for The Rocketeer. The 2-disc special edition of Who Framed Roger Rabbit just managed to get out the door before Disney shuttered the Vista Series label forever. The Village was the last official release and Mary Poppins was probably their last project, but given a different label after the Vista brand was killed.

Sure, I've seen this several times over the years and overall it's supremely entertaining and even romantic, with a great cast, but formally it's pure genius (every damn shot is gorgeous; amazing sets/costumes/make-up/visual effects and some of Vittorio Storaro's greatest and most beautiful lighting ever, backed with a very good Danny Elfman score and some catchy songs). I've seen it presented in both Academy Ratio and 1.85:1 and I prefer the latter - the DVD looks great, too.

Would there be any chance Criterion could get their hands on this then?

DrewReiber wrote:

domino harvey wrote:The only good thing to come from that movie were those awesome scratch and win cards from McDonalds

Yer goin' down!

Indeed.

Would there be any chance Criterion could get their hands on this then?

I'm assuming obtaining the rights is completely out of the question, but even aside from that, Dick Tracy is so incredibly dichotomous with what Disney has become in the last fifteen years that I'm assuming (and this goes for most of what they produced from about 1975 until around 1992) they want nothing but to forget that it exists in their vaults.

I saw it, but I was 6 at the time and remember nothing.

flyonthewall2983 wrote:Would there be any chance Criterion could get their hands on this then?

Disney hasn't licensed anything to Criterion since The Life Aquatic, so God knows what the status of their relationship is by now. It would be lovely if that happened, though.

CSM126 wrote:Disney hasn't licensed anything to Criterion since The Life Aquatic, so God knows what the status of their relationship is by now. It would be lovely if that happened, though.

The inclusion of Wes Anderson's films in the catalogue appear to be a stipulation of the filmmaker himself, much like Linklater's oft spoken of commitment to seeing his work receive the treatment. Thus, we're left with having to look to Disney for any momentum on the long overdue special edition for this film.

Personally, I feel the bigger problem is the lack of serious criticism that exists to properly frame the aesthetic value of the adaptation and it's place among a veritable wave of classic studio throwbacks that all reach into film noir, pulp and "funny books" as their source material. Without any real support to gather people's interest and raise the awareness, and importance of Dick Tracy, it may very well sit idle in the vaults until well past the point where anyone involved in the production will be equipped to speak on it.

While I cannot defend The Rocketeer to the effect that I might discuss Who Framed Roger Rabbit?, Batman and Dick Tracy, I have considered writing a book to better highlight this particular era in filmmaking as part of a larger discourse. Unfortunately, the industry for writing about film is but a shell of it's former self, so I'm not about to sacrifice my lifestyle over the crusade of writing a book nobody is going to sell.

However, I can attempt to work my way through the inside and try to push the right buttons within the DVD industry when given the opportunity. I doubt I'll ever get a crack at Disney, but one never knows. I never expected to end up on certain projects and then I have, so maybe I made the right choice by jumping into this industry.

In the meantime, if any of you really care about Dick Tracy as I do, I would try to drum up interest among your friends and splash special edition inquiries and requests wherever you might think Disney might be looking. I know that's pretty vague, but then we don't have a lot of options at the moment.

I really dig, in a big way, that whole trend in the '90s of retro-pulp-comic book films... Dick Tracy, The Rocketeer and, even to a lesser degree, The Shadow and The Phantom. The latter two horribly flawed content-wise but are great looking films and really have a wonderful feel and atmosphere to them that I love. I find it interesting how all of these films tried to capitalize on the success of Tim Burton's first Batman film and with the exception of Tracy (which was box office hit, right?), none of them go anywhere close the kind of financial success. More recently, I thought that Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow did an amazing job evoking the old pulpy-retro vibe that these films tried to achieve and no one went to see that one either.

But I would go totally to the mat defending Tracy and Rocketeer as films that get the pulpy/old timey serial vibe right. Both are gorgeous looking films and I would love to see both films get the Special Edition treatment. Hell, if a cult film like Tron can get the deluxe treatment by Disney than so can these films.

I remember seeing The Shadow in a theater with two other people in there and my brother. Probably the most empty a theater during a movie I'd been to. The really funny thing is that one of the local churches were passing out pamphlets outside, comparing the lead in the aforementioned movie to God.

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Dylan wrote:I'm assuming obtaining the rights is completely out of the question, but even aside from that, Dick Tracy is so incredibly dichotomous with what Disney has become in the last fifteen years that I'm assuming (and this goes for most of what they produced from about 1975 until around 1992) they want nothing but to forget that it exists in their vaults.

I'm glad that they did some licensing out to Anchor Bay a while back. It's nice to have Never Cry Wolf (love this movie), The Black Hole, and Return to Oz out there (I think Disney put out a version of Oz recently, but I believe it was initially available only through Anchor Bay).

So while there's some precedence for them to license out some of their titles, I'd be (pleasantly) surprised if they do so again with Tracy.

Dylan wrote:Just three out of thousands of great shots in this film. Gotta love Storaro's lighting...damn!

Not to mention awesome prosthetics on the bad guys... wow!

I still can't get over two things in the movie: those damn coats in primary colors (and I don't mean Dick's; I mean all the others especially the red ones) and Madonna. Otherwise, it's fun. It's been awhile since I saw the film, but the thing I remember most (besides the coats!) are the villains especially Big Boy. Storaro just throwing shadows is gorgeous. Too bad it couldn't have been him and Scorsese doing the film. Or any film together. I could use a new edition on DVD for my brother and friends.

Fletch F. Fletch wrote:I really dig, in a big way, that whole trend in the '90s of retro-pulp-comic book films... Dick Tracy, The Rocketeer and, even to a lesser degree, The Shadow and The Phantom. The latter two horribly flawed content-wise but are great looking films and really have a wonderful feel and atmosphere to them that I love.

I have to tell you that The Shadow was one of the two biggest (movie) disappointments of my childhood. I was probably one of the few kids, in the 80's and 90's, who spent a lot of time listening to the 30's radio programme. The movie threw much of the formula of the character into the garbage and reconfigured the script to match what the producers thought people wanted to see in a comic book movie. I simply cannot express enough how much that film *HURT* me. Coincidentally, I would find out years later, as an adult, that the screenwriter was also responsible for other big disappointment of my childhood... Jurassic Park: The Lost World.

It was especially distressing to find out later how many superior creative teams were attached to the project. Robert Zemeckis and Bob Gale were supposed to make the film, but it fell apart at the very last moment. Zemeckis opted to push forward with Who Framed Roger Rabbit? and Universal began to look for replacements. The replacement team who lobbied quite heavily for the picture was none other than Sam Raimi (as writer-director) and the Coen brothers (as co-writers). Much like with Batman, the studio passed on Raimi and thus Darkman was born. Several years later, the intensely mediocre Russell Mulcahy would adapt David Koepp's script and yield one of the most forgettable pulp adaptations of all time.

The only consolation is that Odd Lot Entertainment, run by producer Michael Uslan (Batman, the upcoming Spirit), is developing a new adaptation of the Shadow with Sam Raimi. I'm hoping that, much like with the Superman franchise, a ridiculous amount of patience and a few decades might yield the proper adaptation. As for The Phantom... it's ok. I agree that it holds that atmosphere and feel. I have no qualms admitting that I even own it. At least the people who made that movie seemed to care about the character, and the intentionally over-the-top humor (Treat Williams, especially) has it's moments.

I find it interesting how all of these films tried to capitalize on the success of Tim Burton's first Batman film and with the exception of Tracy (which was box office hit, right?), none of them go anywhere close the kind of financial success. More recently, I thought that Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow did an amazing job evoking the old pulpy-retro vibe that these films tried to achieve and no one went to see that one either.

I thought Sky Captain pullled it off for the first half hour, but then slowly drifted into more of an artificial mockery of the type of movie it was trying to be, rather than something authentic. Interesting attempt, though.

But I would go totally to the mat defending Tracy and Rocketeer as films that get the pulpy/old timey serial vibe right. Both are gorgeous looking films and I would love to see both films get the Special Edition treatment. Hell, if a cult film like Tron can get the deluxe treatment by Disney than so can these films.

Another problem is that no one in the home video industry understands the generation who grew up with these films. Much like with how Warner is convinced there is no audience for a Goonies sequel, Disney didn't care one iota about Tron, Dick Tracy or The Rocketeer. They can only perceive popularity through the box office success of their original release. The *only* reason you see a deluxe of Tron is because of what happened over at Anchor Bay. Disney had so many titles in their catalogue that they didn't care about at all, so they allowed Anchor Bay to license a number of titles that the distributor had the brains to recognize there was an audience for.

Return to Oz, Watcher in the Woods, The Black Hole, My Science Project and Tron were a number of titles among this large licensing agreement. Tron ended up selling so much on DVD that it shocked Disney and they immediately request the license be returned so that they could capitalize on an interest they had previously ignored completely. So just like with Tron, they have to be convinced by an outside force (or vendor) that there is money to be made with special editions of these films.

DrewReiber wrote:I thought Sky Captain pullled it off for the first half hour, but then slowly drifted into more of an artificial mockery of the type of movie it was trying to be, rather than something authentic. Interesting attempt, though.

Sky Captain unfortunately mistook catty bitching at almost homicidal hatred levels between Jude Law and Gwyneth Paltrow for charming, touching odd couple banter. Apart from that colossal, grating misjudgement it was quite good!

I've always wondered if the guy who did Sky Captain was a big Metropolitan fan

colinr0380 wrote:Sky Captain unfortunately mistook catty bitching at almost homicidal hatred levels between Jude Law and Gwyneth Paltrow for charming, touching odd couple banter.

That was probably one of it's biggest problems, and the one that definitely first comes to mind.

CSM126 wrote:Anyone who doesn't love this movie should just die. Seriously, what must be wrong with you? Setting aside our anal obsession over things like the masterful set and makeup design and terrific performances, Dick Tracy is just good ol' fashioned fun of the highest order.

Hopefully I won't die that soon..
Anyway I also have disturbing obsessions about photography (and I think this is one of Storaro's best,say what you want about his decision to revise aspect ratio for home video but the guy is one of the greatest cinematographer ever) and enjoy the sets,the design,the elfman score and the hommage at the old warner gangster films a whole lot.
But if I try to be more professional I can't help but notice the many shortcomings of the movie.
Even if we put aside Madonna,it's difficult to be involved in the film..Whenever I watched the film as a kid I used to stop and rewind to see again some scenes which looked just too good..Now I can see myself doing the same,watch some scene and be in awe of the extroardinary technique.
I can see it as a divertissement and appreciate it a lot for what it is,but I'm afraid if I really go deep I can see it's pretty much shallow.
I guess my comment was taken out of context though,I meant to say that I think structurally Dick Tracy is a mediocre film.
My point was that Dick Tracy does exactly what a comic book movie should do,which is capture the essence of the source while Batman Begins on the other hand fails in that respect.