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domino harvey wrote:And Rules of Attraction retains its crown/the only reason anyone even remembers it exists.

I would hope you're simply being your typically glib and sarcastic self. Rules is one of the greatest horror films I've ever seen. The fact that its very real horrific elements went unrecognized by so many and were guised as supposedly playful, innocuous satire is what allows it to act in such a powerfully insidious and corrosive way. I'll never forget the pall of collective, accumulated shock that hung over the crowd I saw it with when it came to a crashing close abruptly mid-sentence. It's the best Ellis adaptation yet (and I say that as a great admirer of both Less Than Zero and American Psycho). It would be a classic for the five minute "Victor tours Europe" segment alone. There's more potency in that one section's blase acknowledgement of relentless, undisguised indifference and base drives than in the entirety of any number of other films designed to more overtly shock, provoke or sermonize.

I'm glad to see some love for Rules Of Attraction, as I think its highly underrated. The "Victor tours Europe" segment is easily one of the best film sequences of the '90s.

Antoine Doinel wrote:I'm glad to see some love for Rules Of Attraction, as I think its highly underrated. The "Victor tours Europe" segment is easily one of the best film sequences of the '90s.

Yeah, but the rest of the movie is terrible, except for maybe that scene where the girl kills herself. Perhaps it's just more difficult to like if one is as fond of the original text as I am.

I thoroughly enjoy both the novel and the film.

Where's the rest of this thread?

I enjoyed both the film and the book as well, especially the aforementioned Victor tours Europe sequence.

The marketing was really bad when this was released in theaters though, I remember it vividly.

margot wrote:Where's the rest of this thread?

It was split off from the Brand Upon the Brain! discussion.

I think the casting of James Van Der Beek and Jessica Biel (not to mention Fred Savage's cameo) - who until that time were known for squeaky clean images - were a distraction for critics and viewerse in evaluating the film properly. Frankly, they were both solid in their roles and I hadn't seen their respective previous TV shows so I wasn't "shocked" by their performances.

I remember the trailer for the film was ok (the "I only slept with her because I'm in love with you" line was a centerpiece) , but the film was somewhat underpromoted. I remember seeing it in a nearly empty theater with one or two other people.

sidehacker wrote:

Antoine Doinel wrote:I'm glad to see some love for Rules Of Attraction, as I think its highly underrated. The "Victor tours Europe" segment is easily one of the best film sequences of the '90s.

Yeah, but the rest of the movie is terrible, except for maybe that scene where the girl kills herself. Perhaps it's just more difficult to like if one is as fond of the original text as I am.

I haven't read Ellis's novel, but I heard the movie was a very close adaptation of the novel. What was different between the novel and movie?

Where did you hear that from? Whatever the case, that's not true. I could through a laundry-list of differences but Wikipedia already did it for me. The only thing I like about the movie is the two scenes I mentioned in my first post, a Cure song, and Shannyn Sossamon.

I remember loving this on the first viewing and hating it on the second. Maybe it's time for best two out of three...

-Toilet Dcuk

Where did you hear that from?

An unreliable friend, who I am now suspicious of never having read the book. I find it interesting that Patrick Bateman appears in the Rules of Attraction novel, I think I'll have to read the book.

I really liked the movie, the casting of Van Der Beek and Biel was genius. I can't speak for others, but I found this movie's portrayal of college to be very close to my experience. I loved the part where written on the chalkboard was the semester-long cancellation of a class because the professor's wife left him. I would say this is my favorite movie about college.

The only important difference is that the book takes place in the 80s and the movie doesn't.

sidehacker wrote:

Antoine Doinel wrote:I'm glad to see some love for Rules Of Attraction, as I think its highly underrated. The "Victor tours Europe" segment is easily one of the best film sequences of the '90s.

Yeah, but the rest of the movie is terrible, except for maybe that scene where the girl kills herself. Perhaps it's just more difficult to like if one is as fond of the original text as I am.

I've not read the book but I was surprised by how much I liked the entire film - hated the characters, but liked the film!

I get tired pretty quickly of teenage angst/college life/druggie films (Spun being an example of a picture in a similar genre that I'm just not that fond of) and Rules of Attraction is a mash up of all three, but there is a real sense of sorrow for all the jaded characters in this film: of the kids getting off their heads to try and escape from reality; of living without thinking of the consequences of their actions because otherwise it would hurt too much; of destroying others before they destroy you and smirking about it to pretend it didn't mean anything; of deep or long lasting feelings being a sign of weakness; of events only being 'real' if they're documented to show and brag about to others; self destruction becoming a substitue for self improvement.

The suicide scene is the pivotal moment of the film, as a girl the other characters and even the film has barely had time for turns out to have been the only decent, feeling person in the film. Her wasted unrequited love for the worst scumbag in the film, and our lead character, Sean Bateman, is heartbreaking (and also shows up the casual lusting for Sean that Paul, the other member of the main threesome, shows). The suicide may also be an adolescent act, but then she is a kid and she performs the only action that is taken on behalf of another person in the film. The detailed way she commits suicide (stupidly truncated in the UK version, because of the way it could supposedly show suicidal people how to cut their wrists with a more effective downwards rather than across method) in a way stands as a condemnation of the boorish, blinkered, insensitive world that she is in. The fact that it comes out of left field seemingly even for the film itself only adds to the power of the scene.

This act, which might normally be the dramatic climax to a film, goes not only barely noticed as little more than a casual talking point for the kids, but also occurs in the middle of the film which then drops back into the sordid everyday stuff. It is the final condemnation of the film, as it shows just how transient big events have become when there is the minutae of relationships to deal with! Who was that girl anyway? Her act might not have any lasting impact for the characters (Sean remains oblivious as to who the myserious message sender he had grown infatuated with actually was), but it is the turning point for the downward slide of the second half of the film.

Actually, I've changed my mind from my first sentence. As much as I don't like the shallowness and casual nastiness of the people in the film I do not feel as if I'm left with a simple hatred of them (or the feeling that the film is a celebration of their lifestyle - the flashy techniques just serve to expose the hollowness of the world even more), more a sad feeling of seeing people hurting each other because they hate themselves, making the characters seem more pathetic, unthinking and deserving of pity than truly malicious - though Sean could be seen as the nastiest character that makes the others seem better in comparison!

For those that haven't read Ellis' amazing American Psycho, Sean Bateman becomes even MORE of a douchebag. It's a shame that neither the film of American Psycho nor the film of The Rules of Attraction contain the scenes between Sean and Patrick Bateman.

Christian Bale was actually approached to reprise his role in the film, but he turned Avary down. Scenes between Sean and Patrick were filmed with Casper Van Dien playing Patrick, but were cut from the final film.

I knew that Bale was approached, but I had no idea that they had filmed those scenes with someone else. It's for the best, I suppose, since Bale is Patrick Bateman.

Since I loved the "Clockwork Orange" homage trailer, I was really looking forward to this film. Unfortunately, I can't say my enthusiasm carried over to the film itself. (I followed over from the "Brand" thread, hoping to read more about this Carrot Top audio commentary.)

unsufferably pretentious movie. piles of superficial pseudo-stylish effects amounting to one big bloated and meaningless piece of shit. a round and shiny zero in Cinema.

avner wrote:unsufferably pretentious movie. piles of superficial pseudo-stylish effects amounting to one big bloated and meaningless piece of shit. a round and shiny zero in Cinema.

Jesus dude, lighten up. You're really riding the line between meaningless posts and outright trolling here.

Just sayin' what I think about the movie. Couldn't be too light in the comment, the movie is just too bad.

avner wrote:Just sayin' what I think about the movie. Couldn't be too light in the comment, the movie is just too bad.

You are certainly welcome to any opinions you've got, but we have some rules around here that dictate what is appropriate and what isn't. If you're going to trash something so mercilessly, at least back up your thoughts with something a little more in-depth. Not doing so is pretty disrespectful to the rest of the discussion.

Ellis' own thoughts on the adaptation. His comments on Glitterati are certainly intriguing. Too bad somebody can't figure out a way to get that released.

There are several other parts to this interview which cover the other adaptations but, since we don't appear to have either an Ellis or American Psycho dedicated thread (and since I'm not fool enough to resurrect either the Less Than Zero or Informers one), I'll leave it here and you can simply connect to these other parts via the Movieline main page. They are all well worth reading.

colinr0380 wrote: As much as I don't like the shallowness and casual nastiness of the people in the film I do not feel as if I'm left with a simple hatred of them (or the feeling that the film is a celebration of their lifestyle - the flashy techniques just serve to expose the hollowness of the world even more),

The film certainly isn't a celebration. It's more like an extended wallow. What I want to know is how can a viewer determine that the director intended those flashy techniques as complimentary to the characterizations. Given the extremely sluggish nature of the movie, it's more like the flashy stuff exposes the hollowness of the director himself.

In that regard I guess Ellis has the perfect director for his books.

I couldn't agree more.
The technics of Avary for Rules of Attraction exposes visually what Ellis put in his characters. It embodies the storylines from the very beginning. That why I'm not bothered, like Ellis, by the fact that a lot of things are missing around the Sean / Lauren relationship, bringing it almost to a point of non-existence.

But I'm glad that Ellis & Avary came to this collaboration, and that Ellis has kind of a exclusive deal with him for adapting his next books.
I think it's a good move, for both of them and for the movie.

I really like the movie, but I find it good also mostly thanks to the cast. I mean, it's like the biggest cast from new generation actors coming from TV : Somerhalder, Van Der Beek, Sossamon, Biel, Pardue, Bosworth, Nicholas. They're all really strong in the movie.
Adding Dunaway was just the cherry on the topping to see the contrast between this new age of teenage modernity and the old fashion ladies, complaining about the behaviour of Dick, but still drinking and taking too much pills.

But, even more, I heard Avary saying in some ITW that he was interested in his time by the book, because it was exactly what he was seeing around him. Well, for me, when I watched the movie for the first time, it was exactly the same. And I still can't go a big party without thinking of the movie.

Good news for those who crave seeing Shannyn Sossamon's eyebrows in hi-def: this is a Best Buy Blu-ray exclusive starting next week.