criterionforum.org

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 3:44 pm**

... Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas with over 300.000 units sold according to this article: CRITERION MAKES 'SPECIAL' DVDS

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:04 pm**

Interesting article, notwithstanding that the author didn't know that Jon of Arc was a French, rather than a Danish movie.
But, aside from that, I always had the faint suspicion that it was us geeks who were sort of keeping them afloat. That, plus the hefty sticker price and the relative low costs of production, make for a nice chunk of change in the bank.

Tribe

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:20 pm**

I think with the rerelease of Seven Samurai, Kurosawa's flick will be back at number one. Every time I'm at amazon.com, it's always in the top best-selling dvds.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 4:55 pm**

From the Article:

Criterion can thrive on selling as few as 10,000 units per title, though Furniss said the label fares a lot better.

Wow! So they don't have to sell that many to make a profit? That answers a lot of questions from the other thread about the profitability of Criterions.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:12 pm**

Even at 10,000 units, they can manage around $200-250 which is good money on lower releases because they are not as costly in terms of production from what I can see from the DVDs themselves. Naturally, the more obscure films or art films are going to be more less profitable in terms of market. For us cineastes, it's a different story. But thinking mainstream, you don't see many films like Orpheus Trilogy or Dreyer in Walmart shelves.

They need to re-release that Seven Samurai disc to the standard asap. I think it would be good business on their part...

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:23 pm**

I am blown away that Fear and Loathing would be their #1 seller. I figured #1 would be an English language film less than 10 years old. But of all the titles that fall under that criterion, I would figure the rather obscure and much maligned Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas would be last, not first. I can't believe it outsold The Rock and Royal Tanenbaums!

Must be popular with college students or something.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:05 pm**

At my store people are constantly asking for any version of Fear and Loathing, so I can understand this. The demographic, from my experience, is split between relatively young film fans and drunken college kids. A Seven Samurai re-issue would be a big seller because it hits a lot of different areas of interest. I mean, we'd all buy it, also: hard core Star Wars fans, film fans of all kinds, middle aged men that want one Kurosawa film so they appear cultured, action/martial arts fans, it's endless really.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:10 pm**

Here's the full text of the article.. for "archival" purposes:

CRITERION MAKES 'SPECIAL' DVDS
Titles priced at higher end of disc market
By Anthony D'Alessandro 2/8/2005
Onetime laserdisc company The Criterion Collection has morphed into a producer of carefully crafted niche DVDs.

The label focuses on special edition discs featuring filmmaker commentaries of the sort Criterion founders Roger Smith and Bob Stein pioneered on their laser releases. Seven years after switching to DVD, Criterion also is committed to higher-end pricing.

"This is a low-volume, high-margin business," said Adrianne Furniss, CEO at Home Vision Entertainment, which distributes Criterion titles. "Our fan base allows us to predict the number of units we'll move out the door."

Since publishing its first DVD title, Grand Illusion in 1998, Criterion decided to index the spines of its titles, fueling an obsession among its cineaste consumers to swipe up every title, which currently number 281.

High prices coupled with a loyal fan base has enabled the privately owned video company to take lucrative gambles in producing rich editions of cult, often obscure classics.

"Some of the films we work on have the least market promise," Criterion president Peter Becker said.

To produce the quintessential edition of Carl Theodor Dreyer's lost 1928 silent film The Passion of Joan Arc, Becker acquired the music license for composer Richard Einhorn's Voices of Light from Sony, an original orchestral work inspired by the film. Driven by critical reviews, Joan sold 15,000 units.

At $40 a pop, its estimated DVD gross was $600,000--not too shabby for a silent Danish film released in 1999.

Criterion can thrive on selling as few as 10,000 units per title, though Furniss said the label fares a lot better. Industry sales estimates peg the Criterion version of The Royal Tenenbaums at more than 150,000 units.

"I firmly believe this is an evergreen product," Furniss said. "We have decent sales out the door, but when our sales dip six months out, we plateau and hold onto our numbers."

Currently, Criterion is enjoying robust sales for its fully loaded edition of Terry Gilliam's 1998 film Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, which on top of a director and cast commentary touts a track by author Hunter S. Thompson. In fact, Fear has become the label's No. 1 selling DVD, overtaking previous champ The Seven Samurai, with an estimated 300,000 units sold

Thanks to Fear, Criterion recently extended beyond title-driven retail outlets such as the Virgin Megastore to mass merchants including Best Buy.

Wes Anderson and even commercial powerhouse Michael Bay are among filmmakers who prefer Criterion as the video distributor for their special editions. Such support from the Hollywood community stems back to Criterion's foothold with laserdiscs in the late '80s to early '90s.

At the time, the majors didn't fully support the technology and provided Criterion with non-exclusive rights to notable movies. Criterion produced several audio commentaries such as Barbra Streisand's analysis of The Prince of Tides that have never seen the light of day on DVD due to rights issues.

In certain cases, these audio commentaries have surfaced on studio editions of films, as is the case with MGM's upcoming special edition of Raging Bull, which features Criterion's Martin Scorsese-Thelma Schoonmaker audio track. Other times, Criterion has been able to transfer its laserdisc version of a studio film to DVD, such as Spike Lee's Do the Right Thing.

Criterion draws a bulk of its titles from sister company Janus Films, whose film library houses foreign classics from Roman Polanski and Ingmar Bergman. Criterion also has an output deal with theatrical distributor Rialto Pictures, a New York-based company known for acquiring and restoring vintage classics.

"The company's mission has remained the same," mused Becker of the 21-year-old label, "to present a film in the way that their makers want it to be seen."

Copyright 2005 DVD Exclusive

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:34 pm**

matt wrote:Thanks to Fear, Criterion recently extended beyond title-driven retail outlets such as the Virgin Megastore to mass merchants including Best Buy.

This sentence, out of context, makes me laugh.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:13 pm**

Interesting article, but I had a few quibbles:

Since publishing its first DVD title, Grand Illusion in 1998, Criterion decided to index the spines of its titles...

That's a little unclear-- the numbering idea was carried over from their laserdisc era, right? Also, Grand Illusion wasn't their first DVD by a longshot, but it's understandable that someone would think so.

...fueling an obsession among its cineaste consumers to swipe up every title

Where did he get the idea that most of Criterion's loyal customers are completists? That's not true at all.

Thanks to Fear, Criterion recently extended beyond title-driven retail outlets such as the Virgin Megastore to mass merchants including Best Buy.

Criterion titles were sold at Best Buy stores long before Fear and Loathing, especially the English-language releases.

"The company's mission has remained the same," mused Becker of the 21-year-old label, "to present a film in the way that their makers want it to be seen."

Aside from their tendency to crop too much from the sides, a notable exception to this mission is their lower-priced Fanny and Alexander release, which only contains the cut that Bergman has always despised.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:25 pm**

Interesting post, but I have a few quibbles...

Where did he get the idea that most of Criterion's loyal customers are completists? That's not true at all.

Where did you get the idea that the article says that "most of Criterion's loyal customers are completists?"

Criterion titles were sold at Best Buy stores long before Fear and Loathing, especially the English-language releases.

Not as regularly, or with as much variety, as they do now.

a notable exception to this mission is their lower-priced Fanny and Alexander release, which only contains the cut that Bergman has always despised.

You mean the cut that Bergman made because he was asked to make a shorter movie and decided that he'd ignore it?

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 7:58 pm**

Where did you get the idea that the article says that "most of Criterion's loyal customers are completists?"

Because the sentence makes the general statement that their cineaste consumers have an obsession to snap up every title. That's not generally true.

Not as regularly, or with as much variety, as they do now.

I saw approximately 10-12 different Criterion DVDs in every Best Buy store I visited (including those in Nebraska!) long before Fear and Loathing. They may have more variety now, but what the writer said is that thanks to that film, their market now extends to Best Buy.

You mean the cut that Bergman made because he was asked to make a shorter movie and decided that he'd ignore it?

That's the one. The conflict between Bergman and the producers is in the past. Their length requirements do not apply to Criterion. What we are left with are two different cuts of the film: one which Bergman loves and one he thinks is awful. By including only the one Bergman never liked in their lower-priced release, plain and simple, Criterion did not adhere to the mission statement that they still tout, that they present a film the way their makers want them it be seen.
I'm not going to repeat the whole argument with you about Fanny and Alexander -- we already went through that on the last forum. Then, on that forum, after you watched the two cuts, you posted that the shorter cut was greatly inferior. If the shorter cut is inferior (which I agree it is) and its maker loathes it, why release it by itself? I emailed Jon Mulvaney to ask that very question, and the response was that it was 1) to make more available the cut most familiar to people in the United States and 2) because they thought they could sell more at the lower price point. For some reason, those two policies are not in their mission statement.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:23 pm**

Ok, just to clarify, when a mission statement is created by a company it is used as an internal tool. The point of a mission statement is to clarify the goal of the organization to its employees, and is not meant to be used as an external tool aimed at customers. The mission statement is used to state a general guideline to employees as to what the purpose of their work is for and where their efforts and resources should be devoted towards. It is not meant as a promise to customers as to what they should expect from the company, even if the mission statement is made public knowledge. The notion of a mission statement was created as a motivational corporate tool, not as a guarantee to customers based around delivery of the final product, and is not even a requirement for the employees. It is simply a goal that the employee should have in mind when doing work for the company, which they should strive to achieve and compare to their results. However, sometimes the goal is not achieved. If viewed correctly as a general guideline, I would have to say the Criterion Collection has meant its internal goal more often than it hasn't.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:51 pm**

That article is so sloppy in its details that I wouldn't want to read too much into it, but I noticed that the two Janus directors singled out were Bergman (umpteen titles released) and Polanski (only one). So what other Polanskis could we be looking forward to?

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:45 pm**

Andre, I agree that in most cases Criterion has lived up admirably to its stated goals. And while what you're saying about mission statements is true in general, Criterion has made theirs very public. It's part of the way they market themselves, even to the point of providing as part of some versions of the catalogs they include with each release.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:04 pm**

Well, it is true that making a mission statement public knowledge is a form of marketing, but it still doesn't stand as promise to customers regarding quality of product. It's still a statement of where effort and resources will be directed. Even if this was taken as guarantee, it would be difficult to prove whether or not the goal has been achieved, because information about many of the films they release is inadequate. As such, I don't think we can claim their inability to display the correct aspect ratio is a form of flagrant false advertising simply based on their mission statement. Since the mission statement acts as an objective, while we can make a personal conclusion as to whether or not they achieved their goal, we probably could never prove they didn't try to meet their goal. I'm just saying it's difficult to prove lack of effort. We would have more of a claim if they had posted the same message as a "Statement to Customers".

I'm not sure what you meant at the very end of your last post though. Did you mean they include the mission statement on their catalogues?

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:15 pm**

When they have space, they include a statement about what the company is all about, which even concludes with something akin to a promise to the customer: "Each film is presented uncut, in its original aspect ratio, as its maker intended it to be seen. ... Longtime Criterion collectors, to whom we owe our thanks, have come to trust the Criterion banner as a symbol of traditional excellence, groundbreaking supplements, and only the very best in film. Our first priority is never to disappoint that trust."
Also, my intention was not to try to prove willful false advertising on their part. However, a company that boasts rigorous standards should expect it to be pointed out when they make bad decisions from time to time.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:32 pm**

Gregory wrote:"Longtime Criterion collectors, to whom we owe our thanks, have come to trust the Criterion banner as a symbol of traditional excellence, groundbreaking supplements, and only the very best in film. Our first priority is never to disappoint that trust."

Again, I'd say that the last sentence is a guideline to employees to make sure they focus their work on maintaining and strengthening the bond of trust between the company and the customer. It's their priority, but not their promise.

Gregory wrote:Also, my intention was not to try to prove willful false advertising on their part.

Sorry, that was just my interpretation of your comments regarding marketing methods.

Gregory wrote:However, a company that boasts rigorous standards should expect it to be pointed out when they make bad decisions from time to time.

I agree.

Posted: **Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:01 pm**

Thanks to Fear, Criterion recently extended beyond title-driven retail outlets such as the Virgin Megastore to mass merchants including Best Buy.

This really made me laugh. If anything Best Buy has cut back on the Criterion dvds that they sell. Best Buy used to get every Criterion dvd that came out and used to have them on sale the first week they were out. Then they started to not have them on sale and it seems as of August where I live have started to only get the big titles *like Short Cuts* in stock. I know that they never had Eyes without a Face in the store, same with King of Kings, the Fanny and Alexander box set *I checked there first to see if they had the box set and the lady told me all they got was the theatrical version }:0(*. I mean I know that not every store can be like Tower Records and get every Criterion dvd that they make, but don't say that their getting more when it seems to me that their cutting back.

Posted: **Thu Feb 10, 2005 12:31 am**

I should note that the Best Buy I frequent has all of those titles, even Eyes Without a Face. They're a chain but they're not monolithic -- there isn't a big Best Buy central hive mind that determines what titles each and every Best Buy is going to stock. Some Best Buys may be carrying fewer, but in my experience they're carrying more (this particular Best Buy never carried any foreign-language Criterions just a year or so ago) and I don't have a problem believing the overall national trend has been towards more.

Posted: **Thu Feb 10, 2005 4:43 am**

I would think Royal Tenenbaums or Chasing Amy have sold much more than the 300,000 units that Fear And Loathing have sold..... I wonder what the figures are for those 2 movies.

Posted: **Thu Feb 10, 2005 8:24 am**

original article wrote: Industry sales estimates peg the Criterion version of The Royal Tenenbaums at more than 150,000 units.

Maybe read the article a bit more carefully and you'll get half your answer.

Posted: **Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:03 pm**

Anyone shocked that Armageddon or Robocop were not the best-selling CC titles, being the commercial blockbusters that they were?

Fear and Loathing being the best seller is also surprising considering the Universal DVD was out for a few years before CC released its edition.

If you include ebay sales, Salo is #1 for sure.

Posted: **Wed Feb 16, 2005 6:14 pm**

If you include ebay sales, Salo is #1 for sure.

Never. Folks who have spend hundreds of dollars on this are clearly in the minority.

Posted: **Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:04 pm**

kevyip1 wrote:Anyone shocked that Armageddon or Robocop were not the best-selling CC titles, being the commercial blockbusters that they were?

Fear and Loathing being the best seller is also surprising considering the Universal DVD was out for a few years before CC released its edition.

I'm actually not that shocked. Armageddon isn't as popular as you may think with the mainstream. A lot of people I know (who are as mainstream as you can get) hate it. Plus those that like it won't spend $50 American on it ($90 Canadian.) RoboCop isn't a shock as well. While I know many who own it, it was discontinued just after the format really took off. It was also fairly easy to find after it went OOP.

I figured Fear and Loathing had to be up there (though not number 1, which I figured was Seven Samurai for some silly reason, or even Tenenbaums because it was newer) because every store that sells DVDs stocks it (4-8 copies, which is a lot for a Criterion), everyone that I know that loves the movie owns it, even those that bought the original, and it's a DVD that I get asked a lot about from other people ("is it worth it?" "What's on it?" etc.) The movie's not even remotely mainstream really, but it has a hardcore cult following.

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