The Good Shepherd (Robert De Niro, 2006)

[Antoine Doinel]

I'm surprised there isn't a thread about this yet. De Niro directing and starring Joe Pesci's acting return along with Matt Damon, John Turturro, William Hurt, Alec Baldwin, Michael Gambon.

Anyway, the trailer has arrived

[The Invunche]

Pesci didn't die during the production of Lethal Weapon 4?

[Mysterypez]

I heard a story that Pesci was really put off acting after the death of a crew member on GONE FISHIN. He just did not think it was worth it. Glad to have him back. Hopefully this role will be more RAGING BULL and less WITH HONORS.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

I'm surprised there isn't a thread about this yet. De Niro directing and starring Joe Pesci's acting return along with Matt Damon, John Turturro, William Hurt, Alec Baldwin, Michael Gambon.

Maybe this mark an "acting return" for De Niro too. He hasn't done anything noteworthy for some time but this trailer looks pretty sweet.

[flyonthewall2983]

Looks like a possible return for Morgan Creek as well. Things must have picked up for Robinson & Co. since moving to Universal.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

I just watched the trailer for this one again and I am really anticipating this one. De Niro back in the director's chair, solid cast, Eric Roth screenplay (loved what he did with The Insider), and Robert Richardson doing the DP work (yes!). Can't wait...

Dark Horizon's page (with stills)

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Screenwriter Eric Roth is interview in The New York Times.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Time magazine interviews De Niro.

[Antoine Doinel]

Okay interview, but it's interesting that DeNiro is now attached to the remake of 36 Quai des Orfèvres. It was a pretty overlooked French film from a couple of years ago about two cops pitted against each other to solve a series of armored car robberies. Gerard Depardieu and Daniel Auteil were in the leads. The film had a great Infernal Affairs type of vibe and it's the kind of story that could certainly be remade on American soil. I wonder who they will cast in the other lead role? It's actually the kind of film that a Pacino/DeNiro reteaming would be perfect for.

[David Ehrenstein]

Saw it last night. The Biggest White Elephant on the block. Eric Roth's script keeps you fitfully interested in "what will happen next" but neither he nor DeNiro supply any reason to care about these people. The problem is the film's fear of engaging with politics and its consequences, preferring to push "character flaws" instead. Our (anti? the film can't make up its mind) hero is a Tragic Wasp. He has one interesting line in which he discloses that white protestants own America -- everyone else is "just visiting." Now THAT suggests an interesting movie -- but this ain' it.

Matt Damon's talent his ability to play edgey characters and dampen down their rough edges. Here he's playing a creep who's dampened down to start with -- and get progressively damper. People get murdered right in front of him and he merely winces and/or looks "regretful."

Angelina Jolie has never looked more gorgeous -- or been so thoroughly wasted. When she makes her entrance you're braced for old-fashioned glamour to the max as she turns on the va-va-voom to win Damon's heart. Then they get married and she's playing June Allyson! Who wants to see this gorgeous creature as the "wronged wife" when she should be seducing half the world like Marlene Dietrich on speed?

Interesting use of period footage, especially JFK lying his scuzzy ass off about the Bay of Pigs. All tech credits pro -- but so what?

Oh, and Joe Pesci has ONE scene.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Press junket report

Of note, Angelina Jolie sounds like she's interested in starring in Sin City 2.

[flyonthewall2983]

I thought it was a done deal for her to do Sin City 2.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

I thought it was a done deal for her to do Sin City 2.

It depends on if her schedule fits in with whenever they want to start filming. Supposedly, Rose McGowan and a couple others are in the running if they can't get Jolie.

[Floyd]

I really hated this film. I don't really have any other way to put it. The characters as Mr. Ehrenstein pointed out have no dimensions and the plot is so loose and all over the place. De Niro seems to have no sense about pace or timing. I was lost some of the time with the dialogue because of how lousy my theater sound system is but I don't think some of the loss was that important to it. It was just extremely plain and ordinary and that includes the way De Niro shot the film. I am glad De Niro finds the CIA to be of so much fascination but he doesn't allow the audience to share in that enthusiasm by keeping us interested in either his characters or the images we see on the screen.

Disappointed I was dragged to this overly long nonsense. Did anyone else notice when there would be those lame sweeping pan shots from the top of a building or of an area like the Skull and Bones scene? The camera just moves too rapid so he slows it down and somehow kept this in the movie. Also the CONSTANT racking the focus in the mirror interrogation scene (and throughout the film really) was both distracting and poor looking. He just wouldn't stop doing it in the middle of scenes. Sometimes I was just surprised with what was left in and how it was amateurish in feel.

[Matt]

It depends on if her schedule fits in with whenever they want to start filming. Supposedly, Rose McGowan and a couple others are in the running if they can't get Jolie.

In a perfect world, Angelina Jolie would be second choice to Rose McGowan.

Also the CONSTANT racking the focus in the mirror interrogation scene (and throughout the film really) was both distracting and poor looking.

Oh god, I am now filled with dread for my upcoming rendezvous with this movie. Robert Richardson, what have you done?

[Antoine Doinel]

Finally saw this this afternoon and I had the complete opposite reaction than Ehrenstein and Floyd. I found The Good Shepherd to be a wonderfully nuanced, subtle and methodically paced film with a fantastic, Oscar-worthy script by Eric Roth and a remarkable lead performance by Matt Damon.

I think Damon's characters reaction to people getting killed in front of him (which actually only happens once in the film) is realistic to his job. He can't afford to be emotionally invested in the lives of the people he is spying on. What the film points out is that is this is the ultimate sacrifice he has to make - being able to trust people, to have meaningful relationships - in order to be an effective operative for the government. Roth's script and DeNiro's direction both admires and sympathizes with these people, who as William Hurt points out, spend their lives looking over their shoulders for "pennies".

As for Jolie, she isn't so much a "wronged wife" (she did admit to cheating on Damon while he was away as well) as another one of people left in the emotional aftermath of Damon's relationships. Yeah, she looks hot, but her character was never meant to be seducing people left and right and especially given the time period of the film, that would've been ridiculous.

But the biggest thing I took from the film was how wonderfully it downplayed the espionage work. It really focused on the fact that regimes, assassinations, counterintelligence is done Jack Bauer style, but in over cups of coffee, in offices, in boardrooms by guys who look like they should be working for the IRS.

I don't the Damon's character is "creepy" so much as just deeply flawed and complicated. He is not meant to be the film's hero or anti-hero but merely a guide for the audience. From early on in his career he is forced to choose between his country or his personal life we see what the cost is.

DeNiro's film doesn't offer easy answers and I liked it's extremely relaxed pace and quiet power. The cast is uniformly excellent (Turturro and Baldwin especially). Definitely one of the most underrated films of last year.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

But the biggest thing I took from the film was how wonderfully it downplayed the espionage work. It really focused on the fact that regimes, assassinations, counterintelligence is done Jack Bauer style, but in over cups of coffee, in offices, in boardrooms by guys who look like they should be working for the IRS.

I don't the Damon's character is "creepy" so much as just deeply flawed and complicated. He is not meant to be the film's hero or anti-hero but merely a guide for the audience. From early on in his career he is forced to choose between his country or his personal life we see what the cost is.

Well said, sir. I couldn't agree more. Edward Wilson's lack of personality and emotional detachment make him an ideal spy because he gives nothing away to the point where he almost doesn't exist. I felt that Damon gave a tightly-controlled performance that suggested that underneath his emotionless facade exists glimmers of humanity, most notably in the form of a deaf girl whom he loves but must give up once he learns that Jolie's character is pregnant. At the crucial moment of decision for his character, Damon gives a look back to the deaf girl that suggests a tragic end to a life with someone who would have made him truly happy for a loveless marriage that sends him up the social and economic ladder. I think that the tragedy of Damon's character is that he wanted a simpler life with the deaf girl but made the wrong decision and had to live with it for the rest of his life, unable or unwilling to change things. Of course, at some point I think he got in too deep and he couldn't get out.

DeNiro's film doesn't offer easy answers and I liked it's extremely relaxed pace and quiet power. The cast is uniformly excellent (Turturro and Baldwin especially). Definitely one of the most underrated films of last year.

Agreed. I enjoyed every minute of it. I was worried that the long running time would bore me but I got sucked in to the film.

[patrick]

Most people I've talked to about this one were pretty polarized in one direction or another, but I felt a deep indifference in regards to the film. However, there were excellent performances from everyone but Jolie, who I felt was kind of wasted. Ultimately I thought De Niro was obviously trying hard but was dragged down by his own ambitiousness.

[souvenir]

I agree with the supporters that it's the banality of the espionage that makes the film so interesting. Damon's character is a completely empty robot programmed to do what (he's told) is best for the country. He was completely warped by his father's disloyalty into soldiering on in the name of the USA, no matter the consequences.

I'm surprised the film didn't pick up awards consideration as it seems perfect for that kind of thing. Surely Damon gave a far better performance than either Smith or Dicaprio did. The film does unravel a little towards the end. The father-son cycle seems a little heavy-handed and awkward. Either a few more cuts or a few less probably could have improved it, but I thought Damon did a superb job of carrying the whole thing on his shoulders.

[tavernier]

I agree with the supporters that it's the banality of the espionage that makes the film so interesting. Damon's character is a completely empty robot programmed to do what (he's told) is best for the country. He was completely warped by his father's disloyalty into soldiering on in the name of the USA, no matter the consequences.

I'm surprised the film didn't pick up awards consideration as it seems perfect for that kind of thing. Surely Damon gave a far better performance than either Smith or Dicaprio did. The film does unravel a little towards the end. The father-son cycle seems a little heavy-handed and awkward. Either a few more cuts or a few less probably could have improved it, but I thought Damon did a superb job of carrying the whole thing on his shoulders.

You're right, but the Academy likes to see ACTING!

[Antoine Doinel]

In this otherwise mindnumbing interview with David Thomson, DeNiro reveals he has a 3 hour 20 minute cut that he would like to release in the future. I'd love to see it.

He also says he would like to do two more follow up films that would trace the history of the CIA up to the fall of the Berlin Wall.

[colinr0380]

I agree with the supporters that it's the banality of the espionage that makes the film so interesting. Damon's character is a completely empty robot programmed to do what (he's told) is best for the country. He was completely warped by his father's disloyalty into soldiering on in the name of the USA, no matter the consequences.

I'm surprised the film didn't pick up awards consideration as it seems perfect for that kind of thing. Surely Damon gave a far better performance than either Smith or Dicaprio did. The film does unravel a little towards the end. The father-son cycle seems a little heavy-handed and awkward. Either a few more cuts or a few less probably could have improved it, but I thought Damon did a superb job of carrying the whole thing on his shoulders.

Spoilers:

I quite liked the father/son theme of the film illustrating the bigger problem of not learning from past mistakes and therefore being doomed to repeat them! In a way the death of Edward's father pushes him into trying to not to repeat the same kinds of mistakes with his own son but unfortunately he spectacularly fails - he abandons his own son during the first six years of his life (ironically Edward's father commits suicide when Edward was six, so it is almost as if he is returning to pick up where his father left off had he not killed himself) and perhaps hurts his son in a worse way since he ignores him and was not open and trusting with his own family about the nature of his work.

I like the suicide note which Edward finally opens at the end of the film to be confronted with just how alike he and his father really were. Perhaps if he had not hidden the note or at least read it sooner, he might have been able to take some action. However that fits in with the way he never really takes any action in the film but allows things to happen to him - from his father's suicide, his induction into the skull and bones, being approached by the FBI then the CIA, being seduced by Clover, letting various people die by purposefully not saving them when he was in the position to stop whatever was happening or about to happen and so on. I think we are shown in the first flashback to 1939 the last moments when Edward is able to be happy, both professionally and personally, during his Gilbert and Sullivan performance. Immediately that is followed by the invitation to the join the skull and bones chapter that, little does he know, is going to begin the descent into being part of shady organisations that he will never escape from. Once Clover, the sister of one of the other members, seduces and (deliberately?) becomes pregnant his place in the organisation is fixed and his relationship with Laura and a normal life becomes the fantasy.

Also the relationship with Dr Fredericks (Michael Gambon's character) is interesting as he is the father figure that Edward actually allows to die, and whose advice he similarly ignores, but is forced to actively ignore rather than passively just not opening an envelope. Then there is the German woman who he briefly opens up to and then has second thoughts about. All this finally comes out in Laura, who is his last chance to become an emotional, feeling being (it is very telling that the only moments Damon smiles in the film come when he is with her and they seem spontaneous as if Edward cannot stop himself from having these strange, alien reactions to just being in her presence). She returns to his life after he has seemingly lost her forever yet unfortunately his sham life with its facade of normality is more important to him than interior happiness. Maybe he is saving her from himself, considering anyone he has cared about has died, or maybe is protecting himself from the destruction that she would cause to his ordered, sterile life (he would not be in a position to leave on assignments with only a moments notice if he was married to someone he loved. He would still be the kind of person who would keep secrets from a wife). Maybe in the end he realises they would be mutually destructive and accepts his solitary existence in his final break with Laura - maybe at the same time damning her to her own (in the end though the film, like the character, is quite self-centred. Those decisions he does make for himself are made in his own best interests not really with much consideration for how they affect others, not even Laura).

However his small act of rebellion against his stifling existence is to similarly destroy his son's life by killing his wife to be (ironically following in his own father's footsteps by this time meddling too much rather than completely abandoning his son). That he allows his son's pregnant girl to be murdered just before they are married seems to express his own subconscious(?) wish to kill his own wife and son for the way they railroaded him into his own sham marriage - and they both realise it perhaps before he does himself.

Perhaps they were long aware of it, with the weight lying most heavily on Clover as she was the one who instigated the relationship with Edward in the first place. I would agree with Mr Ehrenstein that it is a shame to see the gorgeous Angelina Jolie 'reduced' in some ways to playing the wife at home, but I think that is the intended audience reaction to the character - to see the vamp have her 'plan' backfire on her as she becomes the hausfrau.

That murder completes the connection between these covert government organisations and criminal gangs such as the mafia. Of course there is the Joe Pesci cameo scene where this is made more explicit (in which there is the suggestion that the CIA is manipulating inside the US just as much as it is manipulating political regimes outside to suit their interests - with all the contempt that implies in the association of the way criminal gangs are put on the same level as international regime change) but there is also that early scene at the Christmas party where immediately on arrival all the men split off into a little group to toast over a successful mission. The way it was framed seems to recall that famous final shot of The Godfather of Michael becoming the head of the family - only instead of Clover taking the role of a horrified Kay Adams witnessing his tragedy, there is nobody in the film to see Edward's fate. Unfortunately for the wasp version of the scene only the audience is present to act as a witness to this and the other events Edward is involved in - nobody else present who would be able to understand the symbolism really cares.

It makes me feel that the film is a lot about the struggle of a man locked inside himself - screaming to get out, for work he can be proud of being associated with, for the possibility of one day having his contribution recognised - until finally the light behind the eyes die as the burden of guilt becomes too much to bear and he truly does become an automaton (interesting parallels with The Talented Mr Ripley though instead of in that film where whatever true personality was there is irretrievably lost, in The Good Shepherd the mask hardens into a 'respectable' position of power at the newly built CIA offices).

[erok910]

Over time this has become one of my favorite films from the 2000's. I saw it in the theater, it was too long. I enjoyed bits and pieces, but I was younger and felt like I didn't get it and it didn't resonate. I didn't have a problem with it, but it wasn't enough for me to fall in love with in 2006. I've seen it probably 10 or 15 times since then. And the last three watches have completely converted me to a serious fan of this work. There's a yesteryear quality to it at this point- almost 20 years old- the amount that was spent on this and in the places it was spent. It's an extreme art film on a global scale in a period piece.

The story with his Dad bookending the film, the lost love in his deaf girlfriend Laura, concessions to Clover and his uppers in the agency- this movie is absolutely nuts. I don't know if I want it to be longer, or if I think it had room to breathe. I was talking with my buddy about this and we started talking about The Right Stuff, and the appeal of watching it play out linearly. Only to find out that Eric Roth and Philip Kaufman had worked on it at some point together to actually do the opposite with the narrative. I just can't say I've seen another film like this one, it's a shame that De Niro doesn't get to make more like this. Could talk about every single scene. Previous post from colinr0380 was cathartic to read after the viewing. Apologies on English!

[colinr0380]

Thanks for the kind words erok910 and it is great to find another admirer of the film. Hopefully with time it might get a cult status! I remember a couple of years after posting the above I watched Hitchcock's Topaz, and there felt like really interesting parallels that could be drawn between that film and The Good Shepherd, particularly in the contrasting ways that each main character treats the spouse of their child (a son-in-law in Topaz compared to daughter-in-law in The Good Shepherd). Maybe that's down to the changing times; or the difference between someone who chooses family over work compared with someone who comes to embody their position as the ultimate representative; or whether it is just that a few more decades of the brutalities of realpolitik leaves no room for niceties, or subtlety, any more?

[beamish14]

I think it’s an exceptionally well-directed movie. This and A Bronx Tale illustrate that De Niro has a real knack for it, and I wish he would helm more movies.


I remember seeing this with my father, who enjoyed it as well, but he criticized Damon for having the same dour facial expression in every shot.