Eclipse Discussion and Random Speculation

[Jun-Dai]

I wonder when eclipse will get its own site

[arsonfilms]

I'm sure Eclipse will get its own site when there are enough titles to justify its existence.

[hammock]

I'm sure Eclipse will get its own site when there are enough titles to justify its existence.

That would be now!

[daniel p]

I'm sure Eclipse will get its own site when there are enough titles to justify its existence.

That would be now!

link?

[HerrSchreck]

There's a lot of weirdness there, though we're probably veering way OT-- SEANCE ON A WET AFTERNOON is a criminally underviewed HVe disc produced by the usual CC suspects that would be considered a settled masterpiece of suspense melodrama if it bore a CC label. But us connosieurs must rejoice in our private pleasures. A personal process quite familiar to any longtime fanatic of silent film.

Move into the HVe VHS line and you've got a gigantic treasure trove of obscure masterpieces: Pabst's DREIGROSCHENOPER, Parajanov's SHADOWS OF OUR FORGOTTEN ANCESTORS, Sagan's MAIDENS IN UNIFORM to name just a few. DO DESU KADEN (though masterpiece might be overstating it, at least beyond visual terms, in this case).

Hauling this post back on topic, we can at least thank our home vid stars that, in losing HVe in practice, in essence we've regained it via Eclipse-- as a repository for quality Janus one-shots in very good transfers... I mean furchrissakes if HVe's LOUISIANA STORY, for example, doesn't in the collective mind kick CC's NANOOK all over the room in terms of transfer quality, extras, etc, then folks need to take a second look. MAN OF ARAN as well.

It was always important for the Janus team to have that sub venue as a sort of insurance option to see to it they could nontheless still distribute from their licenses those films which due to time/budget/sales-projection/source-print quality constraints will not make it into the Criterion line, but would be criminal to pass over for home vid distribution. Some of the greatest films ever made had absolutely no contemporary audience due to confounding the masses and irritating distributors at the time of their streeting, and therefore cultivated no reputation of excellence whatsoever and fell immediately into obscurity. Gremillion being a perfect example. CHRIST IN CONCRETE another. Even well received cinematic gems by established masters like Duvivier lapsed into obscurity even in the arthouse circuit for some inexplicable reason, god knows why we get Cahierist junkheaps of Truffaut & Godard(for me, anyhow.. the only thing "new"-- to me-- in the Novelle Vague was the cooperation & ascendance of organs of the press & literature into an extremely devoted critical mass in erecting a huge celebratory monument to both small films of mild significance as well as films not yet made) but nothing from these quietly majestic & selfless poets.

Anyhow (what was I saying?) losing Hve was depressing, but with the appearance at last of Eclipse, it's like the phoenix rising from the ashes. Here's hoping they start hitting at that sublime HVe VHS catalog.

[What A Disgrace]

I think Eclipse would be the perfect place to release Maurice Pialat's films...they certainly seem to fit the mission statement. I know New Yorker owns Loulou, but does anybody know the state of Pialat's other films?

[justeleblanc]

I think Eclipse would be the perfect place to release Maurice Pialat's films...they certainly seem to fit the mission statement. I know New Yorker owns Loulou, but does anybody know the state of Pialat's other films?

You don't think they'd release those on the main label? Though maybe a bunch of his early films might work. Come to think of it, any mainstage director with a slew of early and somewhat "lost" films (that are relatively cheap to license) may get an Eclipse treatment, such as the Bergmans.

I can see a bunch of Hitchcock silents getting the Eclipse treatment (the ones not being released by Lionsgate). It could explain why the R2 Optimum set has more films -- and we know the prints themselves are decent and relatively cheap (otherwise Lionsgate would be charging more than 20 bucks for 5 films). It just occured to me, but I think it's entirely possible. I'm sure the same is possible for Renoir.... or (dare I say it) Bunuel's Mexicans.

[ByMarkClark.com]

I don't know about the Mexican Bunuels. I originally thought we might see those under the Eclipse banner. I was also dreaming of a Mizoguchi Series with the likes of SISTERS OF GION, OSAKA ELEGY and THE 47 RONIN (Parts 1 & 2). But given the relative obscurity of the Bergman and Malle selections, I'm thinking that those titles may be too high profile for Eclipse. At least based on Series 1 and 2, they seem to want Eclipse to focus on real under-the-radar material.

Silent Hitchcock would fit, though.

[Tribe]

I don't know about the Mexican Bunuels. I originally thought we might see those under the Eclipse banner. I was also dreaming of a Mizoguchi Series with the likes of SISTERS OF GION, OSAKA ELEGY and THE 47 RONIN (Parts 1 & 2). But given the relative obscurity of the Bergman and Malle selections, I'm thinking that those titles may be too high profile for Eclipse. At least based on Series 1 and 2, they seem to want Eclipse to focus on real under-the-radar material.

Silent Hitchcock would fit, though.

I agree, those Mexican Bunuels are virtually universally-loved classics, as well as those Mizoguchis that Mark mentions. However, as I recall, Eclipse is also going to be in the business of releasing other things that can't be brought up to "Criterion standards." I think it was Denti who speculated that possibly Eclipse might be a potential venue for those long-awaited Eisenstein silents....I don't think that's a bad piece of speculation.

Those Bunuel and Mizoguchi might be Eclipse fodder if all that can be had are sub-par transfers.

Tribe

[kekid]

Claude Chabrol has been poorly represented on DVD. Yes, there are a bunch of them around, but the quality leaves a lot to be desired (excepting the HVE releases). I have never understood why Criterion, who have chosen to release lesser French directors, have ignored Chabrol entirely. Perhaps they can remedy this with Eclipse.

[dadaistnun]

Claude Chabrol has been poorly represented on DVD. Yes, there are a bunch of them around, but the quality leaves a lot to be desired (excepting the HVE releases). I have never understood why Criterion, who have chosen to release lesser French directors, have ignored Chabrol entirely. Perhaps they can remedy this with Eclipse.

Back when HVE still existed (how I miss them), there was always much argument over why some titles were released though them instead of Criterion (and vice versa). I'm still surprised they didn't bump the three Chabrol titles up a notch and Criterionize them.

[sevenarts]

Claude Chabrol has been poorly represented on DVD. Yes, there are a bunch of them around, but the quality leaves a lot to be desired (excepting the HVE releases). I have never understood why Criterion, who have chosen to release lesser French directors, have ignored Chabrol entirely. Perhaps they can remedy this with Eclipse.

a good box set of his earliest films would be a good thing, but the rights seem to be elsewhere and at least some are out from kino.

[miless]

I agree, those Mexican Bunuels are virtually universally-loved classics, as well as those Mizoguchis that Mark mentions.

Those Bunuel and Mizoguchi might be Eclipse fodder if all that can be had are sub-par transfers.

well, his early Mexican films such as Gran Casino, El Gran Calavera, Susana, Una Mujer Sina Amor, etc... are all a bit lower in quality than his Mexican masterpieces such as Los Olvidados, El Bruto, El, Nazarín, The Exterminating Angel, etc...

I could totally see Eclipse releasing a bunch of Buñuel's more obscure and hard to find titles just to make them available (as many of his Mexican era films are unavailable on any format).

[tavernier]

Looks like an Imamura set will be coming soon...the DVD screeners of several of the Imamura films from the 60s that BAM is sending out for its Imamura series in March are coming directly from the Criterion offices.

[BrightEyes23]

I hope they include some of Imamura's documentaries in the set

Does anyone besides myself think that this Eclipse line is more exciting than the monthly Criterion releases? While I'm not all that excited about the 2 announced releases (I've yet to jump into Malle's work so I'm holding off on that set until I see some of his fiction work, and i've got the R2 Bergmans), the prospects of a 5+ disc set of Ozu, Mizoguchi and Naruse alone give me goosebumps. Can't wait to see what else they've got in store for us.

I do hope they'll let people know in advance otherwise this doesn't sit very at all.

I think they're talking about years between an Eclipse release and an eventual Criterion SE.

Agreed, and I also assume that we'd only get a SE treatment of a single film in the set.

[Cinephrenic]

I don't see how Imamura would make a Eclipse set. We already know that Intentions of Murder and Pigs and Battleships are coming from Criterion. Is his other works overlooked to make a Eclipse line with films like Black Rain, Vengeance is Mine, Deep Desire of the Gods, A Man Vanishes, The Insect Woman, Ballad of Narayama?

I think his films demand a boxset, Criterion treatment.

[tavernier]

[quote="Peter Becker"]At the moment, you'll find more Mizoguchis in theaters (thanks to a traveling retrospective) than in the video store, and that's certainly also true for Naruse, Ozu, and Imamura. While Criterion is working on new special editions of individual pictures by all of these filmmakers, at a rate of maybe one or two a year, we'll never be able to represent the breadth of their bodies of work. Eclipse will help to fill that gap.[/quote]

[zedz]

I don't see how Imamura would make a Eclipse set. We already know that Intentions of Murder and Pigs and Battleships are coming from Criterion. Is his other works overlooked to make a Eclipse line with films like Black Rain, Vengeance is Mine, Deep Desire of the Gods, A Man Vanishes, The Insect Woman, Ballad of Narayama?

I think his films demand a boxset, Criterion treatment.

Of course, but I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth. I don't see how any of those films could be considered 'minor Imamura', except for maybe the comparatively lesser-known A Man Vanishes (which I actually think is one of his greatest films). And, more to the point, all of them could do with supporting features / contextualisation. But I'll gobble them up all the same.

The prospect of an Eclipse box of his TV / documentary work would be great (and probably more appropriate), so let's keep our fingers crossed for that down the line.

[Jun-Dai]

I wonder if they'd be interested/capable of grabbing films that have never been released in the US, or if Eclipse is pretty much limited to languishing films they already have the rights to.

I'd be interested in seeing the half of Itami's works that never made it to the US, or avant-garde films buried deep in the vaults of the MOMA, or similar places, but if they're going for hassle-free releases I imagine they'll be mostly sticking to the Janus catalogue.

[zedz]

I'd be interested in seeing the half of Itami's works that never made it to the US, or avant-garde films buried deep in the vaults of the MOMA, or similar places, but if they're going for hassle-free releases I imagine they'll be mostly sticking to the Janus catalogue.

I know the Janus catalogue is a treasure trove, but would there really be enough there to sustain twelve box sets per years for the foreseeable future? Like you, I hope they're casting their net wider.

[arsonfilms]

I'd be interested in seeing the half of Itami's works that never made it to the US, or avant-garde films buried deep in the vaults of the MOMA, or similar places, but if they're going for hassle-free releases I imagine they'll be mostly sticking to the Janus catalogue.

I know the Janus catalogue is a treasure trove, but would there really be enough there to sustain twelve box sets per years for the foreseeable future? Like you, I hope they're casting their net wider.

Considering the Bergman sellsheet includes logos for Svensk Filmindustri and Image in addition to the Janus logo, I think we're all pretty well in the clear as far as the "Janus only" fear is concerned.

[ByMarkClark.com]

They could mine the Janus catalog for 2 or 3 years of boxed sets easily, then worry about the future after that. Personally, I would love to see that number of Janus titles find the light of day.

[Jun-Dai]

I should clarify: I have no problem with Eclipse being restricted to within-arm's-reach titles. I think it's a fine way for Eclipse to work, and I'm sure they could work for years with just the Janus catalogue (and maybe a few associated libraries), though they might run out of easy matchings at some point and have to move on to less obvious ones or maybe individual titles. In a way it would be the preferable approach, because they could have a clear objective in making the entire back catalogue available, and once they accomplish that they could pick up the pace of new acquisitions without any guilt/concerns over keeping their older titles unavailable solely for time/cost reasons.

In any case, it would be nice to know whether that's the plan, just so we can set our expectations appropriately. Given the number of films that have never been distributed here and are languishing all over the world, I wonder whether there's any chance that Eclipse will be an avenue for some of the lesser ones to see the light of DVD, even though the rights for distribution in the US have never been negotiated before.

[arsonfilms]

In any case, it would be nice to know whether that's the plan, just so we can set our expectations appropriately.

Didn't you read my earlier post?

The Bergman sellsheet includes logos for Svensk Filmindustri and Image in addition to the Janus logo

Starting with the very first Eclipse release, Criterion has made it clear that they are aquiring titles specifically for release under the Eclipse banner rather than simply releasing titles they've had for years. We don't need to speculate about the possibility of them running out of Janus titles and slapping boxes together haphazardly, because we have yet to even see an Eclipse box that only has Janus properties.

[Narshty]

I thought the Janus library was expanding all the time? Besides, I thought the Bergmans/Malles/Imamuras, etc, were bought for Janus but are being released on DVD via Eclipse.