358 Pandora's Box

[GringoTex]

O this poor, defaced thread.

Claiming that Disney was not influenced by Eisenstein does require a bona fide ignorance.

[HerrSchreck]

Yes, you're right. I'm ignorant.

Can we please start noting thread titles now? We opened a new thread on Eisenstein to try and salvage this horribly fucked thread.

[Michael]

Watched Pandora's last night. It dragged and dragged ... so much that I was tempted to press FF more than once. The only scenes worth watching were the ones with Louise Brooks. She made everything beautifully vibrant even just by posing. The son of her husband was also very nice to look at. Overall, the film was kind of boring except for that wonderful Cairo chapter which had plenty of sizzle to keep my attention. Not a movie I look forward to watch again.

[Tribe]

Watched Pandora's last night. It dragged and dragged ... so much that I was tempted to press FF more than once. The only scenes worth watching were the ones with Louise Brooks. She made everything beautifully vibrant even just by posing.

Well, was it worth watching or not...Brooks is in the vast majority of the scenes...

Tribe

[Michael]

It'd be worth watching again if it had Brooks in every scene.

[Mr Sausage]

It'd be worth watching again if it had Brooks in every scene.

Er, Brooks is in just about every scene. You're making a very odd assertion. It's almost as though her presence were lacking in the Pandora you saw. Frankly, I can't even recall a scene she wasn't in, though I'm not about to say that means there wasn't at least one.

[skuhn8]

It'd be worth watching again if it had Brooks in every scene.

Er, Brooks is in just about every scene. You're making a very odd assertion. It's almost as though her presence were lacking in the Pandora you saw. Frankly, I can't even recall a scene she wasn't in, though I'm not about to say that means there wasn't at least one.

Yeah, there's that 30 second tidbit when she's entertaining the meter-reader and the camera is on her "father" trying to snuff down the bottle while trying to keep the dog at bay. Delightful. Not even a scene really, but a shot cut in three if I recall correctly. And then there's the intrigue going on behind her back on the Cairo boat, which Michael seemed to like actually...which maybe suggests that it is her very presence that turns him off? Otherwise LB is pretty much dominating the screen every moment. My advice would me not to snog so much during a silent film.

[Michael]

Huh? Are we talking about the same film? Watch it again. One-third of it, Brooks is absent. All those scenes with the husband, the father, etc bored the hell out of me. There's nothing to get excited about Pandora's except for Brooks and that new score. All I'm saying is that the film drags on and if it was cut by one-third, then it'd make a better film, a well-paced film. That Cairo chapter was tight, tightly directed that is. It moves quickly while the other chapters are kind of rambling and lose, not as visually exciting as Cairo.

[Tribe]

Huh? Are we talking about the same film? Watch it again. One-third of it, Brooks is absent. All those scenes with the husband, the father, etc bored the hell out of me.

If the movie bores you, then it bores you. Nobody's questioning whether it had that impact on you or not. But you mentioned in your first post that "[t]he only scenes worth watching were the ones with Louise Brooks. She made everything beautifully vibrant even just by posing." And Louise Brooks is in virtually every scene, including virtually all those scenes with "the husband, the father." So if you liked all the scenes with Louise Brooks, and Louise Brooks is present in virtually every scene (much, much more than one third of the movie)....what gives? Do you like it or not?

Tribe

[carax09]

That's weird, I thought the film was tightly paced UNTIL the section after the trial, at which point it goes off the rails a little, but then is just completely amazing when they get to London. If there is a more poetic and heartbreaking ten (or whatever) minutes in the entire history of film, then I have not had the privilege of experiencing it. The whole segment speaks absolute volumes to the romantically self-destructive, and perfectly captures what it is that keeps me afflicted with this cinephelia---the faint hope for a rush like that.

[Michael]

I really believed I was going to love Pandora's. There is not much to say about this film thematically, is there? Lets look at Now, Voyager, Bellissima, L' avventura and Cleo From 5 to 7. Those films involve around a woman who is "on the run" but they're still so rich in themes and visuals. Pandora's melodrama is pretty straightforward and simple - a sexually free woman on the run ending up in the arms of Jack the Ripper. A few things about the film are certainly radical for its time - especially its open portrayal of lesbianism. There is not much to observe cinematically other than the fiery presence of Louis Brooks. Maybe that's enough for some people but I still think the film drags on. Did Brooks' death affect you emotionally? It didn't for me which I thought was very weird. Here's the same guy who totally bawled during Cruz's singing in Volver.

Do tell me if I'm missing the point of Pandora's.

[Mr Sausage]

If there is a more poetic and heartbreaking ten (or whatever) minutes in the entire history of film, then I have not had the privilege of experiencing it

I'm not a big fan of Pandora myself (I have a hard time paying attention to it), but those London scenes were astonishing indeed. I don't know if they're the most poetic and heartbreaking in the history of cinema, but they're certainly a contender.

Do tell me if I'm missing the point of Pandora's.

I don't think you're missing the point, mostly because film, or any art for that matter, does not have "points." Points are for essays and speeches and anything done in discursive language. Works of the imagination are experienced rather than proven.

Of course you may have misunderstood the movie, which is always possible, but I wouldn't necessarily say that is the case. You had a hard time getting through Pandora and so did I. It's not that we're somehow deficient; the film just could not for whatever reason affect us. There are plenty of other movies that do, however, so there is no need to worry if one or two "masterpieces" here and there fail.

[Michael]

Forgive me for not making any sense since discussing Pandora's. I was just being concerned I might be missing the point of the whole discussion. Like Citizen Kane and Vertigo, Pandora's is one of those "legendary" films I heard about since I was little and it was the Criterion release that reminded me to check it out. I was surprised that my response to the film turned out to be very lukewarm - the photography, the directing and the story all weren't that peculiar or special. And I still fail to see what makes this film so legendary to many people.

But hey, I think Night of the Hunter is the greatest American film but there are people who think it sucks. Different strokes, I guess.

[Michael Kerpan]

Maybe you share my allergy to Pabst. I find him a decidedly mediocre director. ;~}

[Knappen]

Die Liebe der Jeanne Ney is a treat.

[HerrSchreck]

His masterwork imo.

[blindside8zao]

Does Threepenny opera exist on DVD and how straight of an adaptation of the original is it?

[HerrSchreck]

Only this, as of right now. HVe had an old VHS of it, which allows me to at least watch the old initial resto.

[blindside8zao]

any reviews on the movie itself or the DVD? Has there been any reason to believe it will be released in the U.S. anytime soon?

[Tommaso]

I remember reading somewhere that the bfi "Threepenny Opera" was a video transfer and that the subs were not removable. Clearly an early effort from the bfi, and I suppose one should better abstain from it.

Talking of Pabst in general, I recently watched his 1928 film "Abwege" on TV. This is a fascinating portrayal of a bored, but very stylish society woman (played by Brigitte Helm in one of her most erotic roles) who finally decides to 'go astray' and try out the Weimar nightlife (sex and drugs and Charleston). A very 'decadent' film which only lapses into melodrama at the very end, it looks very much like a study for "Pandora" in places. Would be a great choice for MoC in my view.

[HerrSchreck]

any reviews on the movie itself or the DVD? Has there been any reason to believe it will be released in the U.S. anytime soon?

Since the HVe (like so many of them) was licensed from the Janus library, DREIGROSCHENOPER has been hinted at as a possibility (along with anything else exhibited anywhere with the januskopf logo) for CC release.

There's a decent review (xcept where he says PANDORA may be the greatest silent film ever made) of the discs and film itself from Ian Johnston on a site familiar to a certain librarian known to have something to do with this neighborhood in particular.

[htdm]

I remember reading somewhere that the bfi "Threepenny Opera" was a video transfer and that the subs were not removable. Clearly an early effort from the bfi, and I suppose one should better abstain from it.

Well, it wasn't that early (released in 04), isn't video sourced, and the subs on both versions are removable (disc 1 = German version, disc 2 = French). Both versions look much better than, say, the French version of Testament of Dr. Mabuse included on the Criterion disc of that film.

[HerrSchreck]

But that's not saying much as the French TESTAMENT is a 16 reduction, which is an anomaly not only for CC but boutique labels in general. Many films never make it to dvd because nothing but a 16 is available. That's what Grapevine & co's like Vintage Film Buff specialize in-- plugging the hole by putting 16's on disc.

I believe the prints on the 3PENNY discs are from rediscovered (in the 70's? I think) 35mm negs or the original cut of the film, at least for the German vers..

[Tommaso]

Well, it wasn't that early (released in 04), isn't video sourced, and the subs on both versions are removable (disc 1 = German version, disc 2 = French).

Sorry, I must have confused it all the time with some other disc, so I stand corrected, and most happily so! It seems that the Ian Johnston review is the only one online, sadly he doesn't say much about the dvds themselves. But if the subs are removable, I will be happy to buy the set very soon!

[Michael]

Maybe you share my allergy to Pabst. I find him a decidedly mediocre director. ;~}

I thought I did. Not anymore since watching Jeanne Ney this morning. What an enchantingly beautiful masterpiece. Hard to imagine that Pandora's Box was made after this because technical-wise Jeanne Ney feels more exciting and fresh. Pabst cleary put more heart in this one.