Babel (Alejandro González Iñárritu, 2006)

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Matt
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:58 pm

#51 Post by Matt »

Michael wrote:
Matt wrote:and get rid of that awful, hilariously contrived "connection" to the other stories
Matt, are you talking about the rifle?
Yeah.
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Lino
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#52 Post by Lino »

But the rifle is important. It took a gun to separate a family (the mother of the japanese girl commited suicide with one) and it took another one (owned by the father of the same girl) to reunite the same family. A bit far-fetched but if I look at the film with this in mind, it kind of works for me.

So, yeah -- the whole movie is about the japanese girl.
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Michael
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:09 pm

#53 Post by Michael »

I thought so. I can see how the purpose of the rifle can seem contrived or far-fetched or drivel to some people. Like the frogs raining in Magnolia. I won't argue with that but it didn't bother me at all. Especially if stepping back looking at the whole tapestry.

The Japanese daughter mentioned in the car her dad never gave her attention. The rifle showed that the father was clearly rich: meaning that his job not only keeps him away but on his free time, he travels all over the world hunting. All this had to have had its toll on the family and I speculate it is why the mother killed herself and the daughter was in an emotional mess. It was surreal seeing those heads of exotic animals hanging on the walls in the father's uber-modern penthouse but it worked.

None of those ridiculous, senseless tragedies would have happened in Babel if the father would have been a better father. Had he not been going all over the world and neglecting his family, the rifle would have never ended up in the boys' hands. The American woman would have not been shot. The Mexican woman would have not needed to take the children because the American couple would have been home on time. All of those happenings weave into a theme - children being left behind. Parents and adults need to slow down and just try and understand.. and listen. The last blurb from the director to his children proves this. The real connection of the stories are children. Listening and caring is enough to save someones life and make it worth living. The Japanese cop saved the deaf woman. Like the cop saved Claudia in Magnolia. Babel reminds me so much of Magnolia, not only the very sobering tone and the weaving of the stories but the "biblical" themes and so forth.

The editing style is so brilliantly crude. The headless chicken bleeding in Mexico cut to the bleeding shoulder of the American woman in Morocco. The Japanese woman in the cradle of the cops arm cut to the dead son in the cradle of his fathers arm. My partner and I discussed the film for hours through the night. He saw Babel as poetry.

The old woman smoking and holding the bleeding woman in the desert. The dancing to silence in a Tokyo nightclub. The crimson red dress of the Mexican woman trailing in the sand. The white cat lounging about. The floating shot concluding Babel. Hauntingly beautiful.

This is not Crash of 2006. There's nothing preachy or soapy or Hollywood about Babel.
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Lino
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#54 Post by Lino »

Michael, you nailed it. I love the film so much more because of you. Thank you.
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Michael
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:09 pm

#55 Post by Michael »

Lately I've been bringing up Babel to people - coworkers, friends, relatives, and even neighbors. Quite amazing to receive all varied responses. My mother and my partner are the only people other than myself who love Babel.

The rest: the girl living next door to me thought the movie made a mistake for not showing what Cheiko wrote in that last note to the cop; my coworker said the movie felt like a 250-piece jigsaw puzzle missing 200 pieces; my aunt shot out "WEIRD" with an incredible determination; my other coworker was so disturbed by the Moroccan boy jacking off that she dismissed everything about the movie no matter what; my boss smirked "why did I have to see the beaver?".

WOW. Babel really divides people. And I have to say this has to be the most misunderstood studio film made since The New World.
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Lino
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#56 Post by Lino »

My God -- it's really true. Americans really are such puritans. And yet, they can take the violence. I hate cliches as much as the next person but it's so great to be an european when confronted with those reactions you got there, Michael! :wink:
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toiletduck!
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#57 Post by toiletduck! »

Michael wrote:WOW. Babel really divides people. And I have to say this has to be the most misunderstood studio film made since The New World.
Not to insult the people in your real life, but the last three are grade-A examples of the reactions that I would throw out when calculating how well a film is 'understood'. That sort of thing'll kill the curve every time.

-Toilet Dcuk
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Michael
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#58 Post by Michael »

I'm not sure what you're saying. So Cheiko removing her undies and flashing to the boys has no purpose in the film, is that what you're saying? If people can't see or refuse to accept Cheiko's being naked or the Moroccan boy jacking off, then they are close-minded to really understand what Babel is all about. What does it take to call a film "misunderstood"? Enlighten me.

I'm not expecting Babel to be embraced or loved by everyone. Of course not. But the majority of reactions I've been receiving leave me bewildered but this makes me love Babel even more.
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toiletduck!
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#59 Post by toiletduck! »

Michael wrote:What does it take to call a film "misunderstood"? Enlighten me.
Well, I would ask the same of you, actually, which is why I quoted understood. Unless Inarritu himself tells me what I'm supposed to "get" (and probably even if he did), I'm loath to say that someone else misunderstood a film, at least in the sense that their reading is downright incorrect. I'm merely trying to go along with your terms.

But towards the point of my last post: no, I'm not trying to say that these people are necessarily too close-minded to have the ability to understand a film like Babel, I can hardly form that opinion from this tidbit of information (plus, I was being honest when I said I didn't intend to insult). However, I would contend that anyone who dismisses a film because of an entirely non-graphic scene of a pubescent boy masturbating is not in the least concerned with understanding it. So I wouldn't count that opinion. Personally, anyways.

That's all I'm really saying -- I don't necessarily agree with the first two reactions you posted, either, but at least they show some interest in deconstructing its effectiveness on a larger level. Which is maybe how I would define 'understanding', I guess.

-Toilet Dcuk
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Michael
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#60 Post by Michael »

toiletduck!, thanks for clarifying this. I'm going to examine closely why I wrote of Babel being a"misunderstood film". I guess it's one of ways of defending a film I love since I'm not sure what to make of many really bizarre reactions I've been gathering.

I also just finished reading Bordwell's essay on Babel. What a crock of poop. The last line got on my nerves: After all, the drama is fundamentally about how prosperous white people have to suffer because Asian, Mexican, and North African men have guns.

The American couple hired an illegal immigrant which everyone knows would end up with some serious consequences. If the couple had never done that, then none of the horror would had happened to the kids. And whats worse, the couple put their kids in the hands of an illegal immigrant and left them behind to travel to the other side of the world (also mirroring what the Japanese father did to her daughter). I'm sorry I just can't see how Babel favors white people over everyone else. The Japanese news claimed that the "Americans have their happy endings" late in Babel. Its meant to be ironic. The Americans come home to face more horror: the Mexican nanny is gone for good; their kids will never be the same - permanently scarred. And I'm sure the US/Social Security will get involved with all this mess - investigating and so on.

Bordwell's noodles are getting loose.
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Michael
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#61 Post by Michael »

Calling a film "a misunderstood film" can be arrogant. It's like I'm expecting everyone to understand Babel. I will refrain from using that phrase again. Thanks once again, toiletduck, for putting me in perspective.

Now back to Babel.
portnoy
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#62 Post by portnoy »

Michael wrote:The American couple hired an illegal immigrant which everyone knows would end up with some serious consequences. If the couple had never done that, then none of the horror would had happened to the kids. And whats worse, the couple put their kids in the hands of an illegal immigrant and left them behind to travel to the other side of the world (also mirroring what the Japanese father did to her daughter). I'm sorry I just can't see how Babel favors white people over everyone else.
spoilers below, yawn...

*shock* Not an illegal! OMGZ! (The film doesn't present Brad and Cate's hiring an illegal or using their nanny of eight years as a babysitter while they go overseas to mourn their dead child as any sort of moral wrong - Babel in fact goes out of its way to give them that extenuating psychic circumstance to justify their behavior, while Koji Yakusho's hunting trip in Morocco is merely a cliche of rich Japanese indulgence.)

It's not a matter of Babel 'favoring white people' - that's not what Bordwell is arguing. Bordwell merely makes the claim that the film reveals some extremely disturbing subtext which may or may not be intentional. Bad Things Happen in Babel, and many of the worst things that happen (the entire Brad/Cate plot, Adriana and the kids in the desert, the entire Brad/Cate plot again) happen because non-white men (the Moroccan kids, Gael, Koji Yakusho) do stupid things with guns. They shoot at buses, they get trigger-happy while crossing the border, and as signs of their wealth they thoughtlessly give away high-powered weapons. Every white character, by turn, is victimized in the film - Brad and Cate, their child dead, are given moral justification to try to rebuild their marriage on this trip - but then she's shot! The white kids in the desert - god, that shit was infuriating. (How can anyone not claim that this is unbridled potboiler melodrama with sequences like that?)

On another note, someone help me here - I saw this movie about half a year ago so I'm a bit hazy on it - but - did I dream up a subplot about incestuous desire between two of the Moroccan kids? It sounds like such an obviously terrible, offensive idea, but for some reason I think it happens. Was there not any more room for offensive cliches or exoticization of non-whites, or did this really happen?
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Antoine Doinel
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#63 Post by Antoine Doinel »

While I see where you're coming from portnoy, I think one of the greatest "moral wrongs" in the film is the fact that Brad/Cate treat their babysitter so terribly. Time and time again she tells them she wants to attend her son's wedding and at no point do Brad/Cate attempt to call relatives, neighbors or anybody else to fill in. I took their inaction as an implication of their simple lack of caring as to what would happen to the person who is raising their children. Even before Cate got shot I do believe the babysitter did let them know she had to go to her son's wedding and even at that point arrangements were not made. Despite Cate getting shot, to me their characters were largely unsympathetic and had more in common with their fellow passengers on the bus, who only when faced with a grave situation cared to remove the blinders they had on to the rest of the world.

All that said, I still feel Babel is flawed film, with one truly compelling story worthy of a film itself (yep, the Japanese one) tied with only the most tenuous of circumstances to the other three. I actually really liked the story regarding the babysitter and actually wished we got to spend more time with her character but part of the problem with the film is that it stretches itself out too thin relying on preconceived notions about its characters to fill in the blanks.
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Michael
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#64 Post by Michael »

Oh Jesus!
Not an illegal! OMGZ! (The film doesn't present Brad and Cate's hiring an illegal or using their nanny of eight years as a babysitter while they go overseas to mourn their dead child as any sort of moral
Does Babel need to spoonfeed you that Brad and Cate hired an illegal immigrant/alien? It's so clear that the Mexican nanny is an illegal immigrant and was living in the US for more than 15 years. Or otherwise the tragedy at the border as presented in Babel wouldn't had happen. Of course the nanny was not thinking clearly when she brought the kids with her to Mexico but she was still a mom who felt the overwhelming need to attend her son's wedding. And Brad failed to see her in that light and was selfish with her. But then of course, the nanny got selfish when deciding to bring the kids with her to Mexico. Miscommunication, misunderstanding, selfishness.

Why the need to go to the other side of the world to mourn the dead child when they already have two children to worry about at home? People, including Brad and Cate, making bad judgement without thinking of children is one of the major themes of Babel.

Gun is presented as a different signficance from culture to culture for instance, in Morocco it's a tool for farming and in Mexico, it's celebration. And so on.
On another note, someone help me here - I saw this movie about half a year ago so I'm a bit hazy on it - but - did I dream up a subplot about incestuous desire between two of the Moroccan kids? It sounds like such an obviously terrible, offensive idea, but for some reason I think it happens. Was there not any more room for offensive cliches or exoticization of non-whites, or did this really happen?
First you said it's not a matter of Babel 'favoring white people' then you said how Babel is all "offensive cliches or exotication of non-whites'. Huh? Brad and Cate along with the whites on the tour bus are just as misguided as the rest of the world.

A boy going through puberty lusting after his young sister happens not only in Morocco but every single town all over the world. You're not stepping back and looking at the whole tapestry.

Babel is almost metaphysical in its way of showing not only how tightly we're all connected but also how much the same we are despite the differences between our cultures and languages.

Some people think the Japanese story is out of the picture but thematically I think it fits perfectly with the rest because Cheiko is culturally deaf and her native language is Japanese Sign Language which is nothing like the spoken Japanese language.
portnoy
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#65 Post by portnoy »

Michael wrote:
Not an illegal! OMGZ! (The film doesn't present Brad and Cate's hiring an illegal or using their nanny of eight years as a babysitter while they go overseas to mourn their dead child as any sort of moral
Does Babel need to spoonfeed you that Brad and Cate hired an illegal immigrant/alien? It's so clear that the Mexican nanny is an illegal immigrant and was living in the US for more than 15 years. Or otherwise the tragedy at the border as presented in Babel wouldn't had happen.

Why the need to go to the other side of the world to mourn the dead child when they already have two children to worry about at home? People, including Brad and Cate, making bad judgement without thinking of children is one of the major themes of Babel.
I'm just not buying this - the film goes out of its way to give Brad and Cate an excuse for their Moroccan vacation, emphasizing the dire psychic character of the couple so as to attract viewer sympathies.
Gun is presented as a different signficance from culture to culture for instance, in Morocco it's a tool for farming and in Mexico, it's celebration. And so on.
But that's not the role they play in the film. The role the guns play in the film is as a tool of aggression. Nearly every plot in the film hinges on guns being used as a tool of aggression.
First you said it's not a matter of Babel 'favoring white people' then you said how Babel is all "offensive cliches or exotication of non-whites'. Huh? Brad and Cate along with the whites on the tour bus are just as misguided as the rest of the world.
There's a huge difference between a text actively 'favoring white people' and a text betraying underlying biases and utilizing discourses which undermine its own attempt to present a balanced view of diverse cultures.
A boy going through puberty lusting after his young sister happens not only in Morocco but every single town all over the world. You're not stepping back and looking at the whole tapestry.
Why isn't an American kid lusting after his young sister then? Because it's more acceptable to western audiences if incest is kept within a distinctly non-western context. I'm not stepping back 'and looking at the whole tapestry' because Babel doesn't present a whole tapestry - it presents preconceived notions of Otherness predicated upon stereotypes.
Babel is almost metaphysical in its way of showing not only how tightly we're all connected but also how much the same we are despite the differences between our cultures and languages.
I almost don't have anything to say to this, besides that you and I could not have derived different discursive meanings from this film.
Some people think the Japanese story is out of the picture but thematically I think it fits perfectly with the rest because Cheiko is culturally deaf and her native language is Japanese Sign Language which is nothing like the spoken Japanese language.
I don't care whether or not the story fits - its only tangential relation to the rest of the plot had no impact on my inability to enjoy the film. The fact that Inarritu and Arriaga exoticize the 'Japaneseness' of Chieko's narrative is what bothers me.
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Michael
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#66 Post by Michael »

I'm just not buying this - the film goes out of its way to give Brad and Cate an excuse for their Moroccan vacation, emphasizing the dire psychic character of the couple so as to attract viewer sympathies.
My heart went to everyone in Babel.

If an American boy lusted after his sister, you would probably get offended anyway.
portnoy
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#67 Post by portnoy »

Michael wrote:If an American boy lusted after his sister, you would probably get offended anyway.
It's days like this that I thank god for this emoticon: :roll:
portnoy
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#68 Post by portnoy »

By the way, for the haters (as well as the fans), this great essay, this is a pretty good summary of what I find execrable about the film.
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Michael
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#69 Post by Michael »

Great essay indeed. Beautifully written. Criticisms expressed and supported very vivdly. Unlike that essay by Bordwell.

When it comes to the themes realized in Babel - todays alienation, family disconnection, etc, Kiyoshi Kurosawa tackles them perfectly in Bright Future, Cure and Pulse. His vision is unquestionably more poetic, original, difficult and interesting than Innaritu's. But I still love Babel.
rs98762001
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#70 Post by rs98762001 »

Michael wrote:Great essay indeed. Beautifully written. Criticisms expressed and supported very vivdly. Unlike that essay by Bordwell.

When it comes to the themes realized in Babel - todays alienation, family disconnection, etc, Kiyoshi Kurosawa tackles them perfectly in Bright Future, Cure and Pulse. His vision is unquestionably more poetic, original, difficult and interesting than Innaritu's. But I still love Babel.
Funny you bring up Kurosawa here. I couldn't help but feel that maybe Arriaga and Innaritu had him on their mind while they were making this (although as you state, the treatment of similar themes was vastly different). Perhaps this was reflected in the casting of Koji Yakusho?
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Michael
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#71 Post by Michael »

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Antoine Doinel
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#72 Post by Antoine Doinel »

Peter Travers isn't exactly the most respectable of film critics.
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tavernier
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#73 Post by tavernier »

That's putting it mildly.
filmnoir1
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#74 Post by filmnoir1 »

This film is quickly becoming the people's choice for best picture it seems but as last year and previous years have shown, what the average viewer endorse is typically what the academy avoids. While Babel has a huge cast, large set design (1200+ people worked on the film) and what is being sold as an epic story, it is a film that was made with Oscar in mind and sometimes those films do not resonate with the voters; case in point Dreamgirls.
In terms of money Babel was made on the cheap, considerably speaking but it has consistently failed to generate revenue. I don't believe dvd sales are going to be enough of a factor to impact its overall profitability in the future.
Finally I still stand by my own convictions that this is a truly flawed film with a premise that may attempt to argue that everyone in the world is misunderstood while still being connected, but that does not execuse the ideological framework of the film which certainly celebrates the white hegemonic discourse of globalization.
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Michael
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#75 Post by Michael »

Peter Travers isn't exactly the most respectable of film critics.
How come?
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