Eclipse Discussion and Random Speculation

[Jeff]

The Bergman sellsheet includes logos for Svensk Filmindustri and Image in addition to the Janus logo

Starting with the very first Eclipse release, Criterion has made it clear that they are aquiring titles specifically for release under the Eclipse banner rather than simply releasing titles they've had for years.

Every Janus title is going to have other logos and copyrights on it; they always have. Janus doesn't "own" ANY of the foreign films they distribute. They are simply the U.S. rights holder. The Bergman titles, for example, are copyrighted by Svensk Filmindustri, but Janus has had U.S. distribution rights for years. And the Image logo always appears on Criterion sell-sheets and advertisements, because that is who wholesale buyers order them from. The first two waves of Eclipse titles all have long-term U.S. distribution rights owned by Janus Films. They are not licensed from other distributors.

[arsonfilms]

The Bergman sellsheet includes logos for Svensk Filmindustri and Image in addition to the Janus logo

Starting with the very first Eclipse release, Criterion has made it clear that they are aquiring titles specifically for release under the Eclipse banner rather than simply releasing titles they've had for years.

Every Janus title is going to have other logos and copyrights on it; they always have. Janus doesn't "own" ANY of the foreign films they distribute. They are simply the U.S. rights holder. The Bergman titles, for example, are copyrighted by Svensk Filmindustri, but Janus has had U.S. distribution rights for years. And the Image logo always appears on Criterion sell-sheets and advertisements, because that is who wholesale buyers order them from. The first two waves of Eclipse titles all have long-term U.S. distribution rights owned by Janus Films. They are not licensed from other distributors.

Although generally true, this is not always the case. Svensk Filmindustri is the copyright holder for all of Bergman's films because it was the production company, but that doesn't mean SF holds licensing rights to all of Bergman's titles. The Fanny and Alexander packaging, for instance, bears no SF logo despite having the content copyrighted to them. Likewise, Janus doesn't have a logo on everything Criterion puts out, and Image doesn't have a logo on anything Criterion licensed from Janus (take a look at Double Life of Veronique and Bicycle Thieves, which have an Image logo but not one from Janus).

That said, I did make a rather embarassing mistake by citing the wrong Image logo on the sellsheet, which virtually moots my whole initial argument (although the presence of the other Image logo would have indicated that some films were from Janus and others from Image). Has anyone recieved a copy of the Malle sellsheet that they could post? I'd be interested to see if any of those titles were licensed from non-Janus US distributors.

[Matt]

Why doesn't someone just ask Jonathan Turell about the logos on the back covers? He's answered a ton of other silly questions, why not this one?

[HerrSchreck]

Mizoguchi, Naruse, Ozu, and Bernard all confirmed by the Hollywood Reporter.

Bernard I could automatically imagine "relegated" to E. But Mizo, Ozu, and Naruse? Could they really be putting out SANSHO DAYU in a barebones disc?

On the Ozu, I could see a silents box go the barebones route.

[Narshty]

I don't think Jonathan Turell will get a full day's work done ever again. Peter Becker must be laughing his arse off.

[fred]

Well don't forget that they appear to have reserved the right to redo individual titles from Eclipse sets in the parent line. So if they know they're not going to get to Sansho for another few years (and given their present pace of production with Mizoguchi, maybe longer) I have no problem with seeing this in the Eclipse line. Besides there are major Mizoguchis (Story of Last Chrysanthemums) which have serious problems as far as source materials and many others which have nowhere near the reputation of Sansho, Oharu, &c. What about Portrait of Madam Yuki and The Love of Sumako the Actress (to pick two at random)?

And there are dozens of Naruses which need to be released. It's hard to imagine more than a couple of these getting full Criterion treatment.

[Michael Kerpan]

Well don't forget that they appear to have reserved the right to redo individual titles from Eclipse sets in the parent line. So if they know they're not going to get to Sansho for another few years (and given their present pace of production with Mizoguchi, maybe longer) I have no problem with seeing this in the Eclipse line. Besides there are major Mizoguchis (Story of Last Chrysanthemums) which have serious problems as far as source materials and many others which have nowhere near the reputation of Sansho, Oharu, &c. What about Portrait of Madam Yuki and The Love of Sumako the Actress (to pick two at random)?

There are (around) 32 surviving surviving Mizoguchi films (a few are only condensed home video versions, alas). Almost all of them are very worth seeing. "Madam Yuki" has a few narrative weaknesses -- but is a visually very beautiful film -- with fine performances by Michiyo Kogure and a young wide-eyed Yoshiko Kuga. "Sumako the Actress" features one of Tanaka's most enthralling performances in a Mizoguchi film (in a far more interesting and demanding role than those in Ugetsu and Sansho).

And there are dozens of Naruses which need to be released. It's hard to imagine more than a couple of these getting full Criterion treatment.

I couldn't agree more -- on both points.

I, for one, will happily aid in the development of online (text) supplements for any barebones Ozu, Naruse, Mizoguchi, Shimizu, Shimazu, Gosho, etc.

[Lino]

It just dawned on me that we might be getting a boxset-ful of Nobuo Nakagawa's films in the future. That's what it said on the original announcement, wasn't it?

I imagine that his best ones will be given the Criterion treatment, like Ghost Story of Yotsuya and Black Cat Mansion, in order to make way for Eclipse to tackle the lesser known ones (mostly his earlier B/W features).

Let's just hope September brings us some good news, regarding these.

[Cinephrenic]

Why not a series of J-horror including the ones you've mentioned and Kuroneko by Shindo and other obscure titles. Or even the possible Japanese sci-fi that is rumored to be coming.

[ByMarkClark.com]

That's a possibility. I'll bet that every Eclipse series won't be limited to a single director.

[Tribe]

I'll bet that every Eclipse series won't be limited to a single director.

I would hope not...it would be great to see some experimentation, particularly if they can get some even slightly better materials of all those Soviet silents and/or Italian neo-realists.

Tribe

[zedz]

Bernard I could automatically imagine "relegated" to E. But Mizo, Ozu, and Naruse? Could they really be putting out SANSHO DAYU in a barebones disc?

Whoa, Nellie! There are dozens of films by those Japanese masters that ought to be released, and I'm sure major titles like Sansho, Oharu and Floating Clouds will get the Criterion treatment. Criterion could issue a dozen titles from each on the parent label and still have films galore available for multiple Eclipse boxes.

I think the issue you raise is more of a concern with Imamura, where there's a much smaller pool of features on which to draw, and most of the ones presumably intended for Eclipse are undoubtedly 'major'. Still, if we do end up seeing The Profound Desire of the Gods as a bare-bones release I'll be much less confident about defending Criterion's honour where Sansho is concerned!

[HerrSchreck]

So if they know they're not going to get to Sansho for another few years (and given their present pace of production with Mizoguchi, maybe longer) I have no problem with seeing this in the Eclipse line. Besides there are major Mizoguchis (Story of Last Chrysanthemums) which have serious problems as far as source materials and many others which have nowhere near the reputation of Sansho, Oharu, &c. What about Portrait of Madam Yuki and The Love of Sumako the Actress (to pick two at random)?

And there are dozens of Naruses which need to be released. It's hard to imagine more than a couple of these getting full Criterion treatment.

I don't know why this idea-- expecting to see a good portion of Mizo , Naruse, and Ozu flat-out masterworks getting the CC treatment-- seems unusual or hard to imagine. Surely these directors fall into the same perceived category of the top-of-the-heap canonical Janus-Beloved, Film School Seal Of Approval Directors (whatever that means, but I think you get the drift) used as cornerstones and upon which the CC builds the rest of it's collection: a tendency towards "masterwork completism" a la Kurosawa, Renoir, Bresson, Powell-Pressburger, Fellini, Cocteau; hell, with all of the Suzuki & Bergmans the idea of four or five obvious masterpieces by Mizoguchi should never be "hard to imagine", at least.

That said, nothing is a given. Of course the possibility exists that we will get a good serving of the works of these settled masters via both conduits, i e via E and CC. I'm simply expressing a bit of fear gentlemen, stark raging paranoia... head beating, brainspraying, bury a hammerclaw in your eyeballs hacking cough of terror.. a beat the family into plates of roast beef with wonderful reduction gravy... an artery-slashing, black-assed, hogballed.. oh, uh... sorry-- I uh was just (cough) commenting on (forhead wipe) the obvious forum condition of quarterly handwringing over the usual "where's the Ozu/Mizo/Naruse?", and now, with the announcement of an Eclipse box of anywhere from 3-5 titles by each of these guys, we just got our answer. That said I do admit it's just a slight fear. I can't imagine a few E titles will close the deal on these directors.

But the idea of CC releasing anywhere from 3-6 Mizoguchis on the CC should never be hard to imaginee. Given the propensity of the line itself for a certain kind of "canonical auteurist" completism, (plus the major purple boner the Beckers have for Japanese masterpieces) it should be, one would think, the easiest thing in the world to picture in one's mind.

And leave Nellie alone. She's got enough to worry about chawing inta her face pouch lugging fat German tourists thru the cold in Central Park. Nellie is a good woman, the best there is in fact, and dammit I will not allow defamations of her character to fly unchallenged. Present seconds or set at table for quiet soup for god's sake.

[Michael Kerpan]

The point is that there are many wonderful Ozu, Naruse, Mizoguchi, etc. films that simply are not preserved well enough for a Criterion release. Criterion is smart enough to know that many of its customers are NOT smart enough to know the limitations of what can be done in terms of cleaning up truly poorly-preserved materials. There are also many films that are adequately preserved but so critically unnoticed that a regular Criterion release would be risky. If, by chance, a few Eclipse offerings really develop unexpectedly strong followings, maybe fancy schmantzy Criterion releases can be hoped for at a (considerably) later date. ;~}

Having decent presentations of these wonderful films at reasonable prices, sooner rather than later, can only be considered a very good thing.

[blindside8zao]

what happened to the sort of proposition about an Eclipse membership club or something?

[ByMarkClark.com]

Why not a series of J-horror

Speaking of which ... I suddenly remember hearing from a source some time ago that Criterion had acquired GOKE, BODSNATCHER FROM HELL -- which would make a nice addition to such a series.

[swimminghorses]

Seems there should be one or at least a branch from Criterion (to see titles, price, covers, etc. What's up?

[Andreas]

so...Ozu silents, Raymond Bernard or Mikio Naruse...is there any news yet of what will be in box number three?

[blowout]

Hi ,
just joined.

How about Godard & Miéville documentaries (like "France / tour / detour / deux / enfants" or "Six fois deux / Sur et sous la communication") and shorts? Perphaps along with works by Groupe Dziga Vertov (like "Ici et ailleurs").

Criterion / Eclipse treatment it would be great for those rarities.

[Harvey Domino]

ChrisMarker!ChrisMarker!ChrisMarker!

I know they deserve the "Criterion" treatment, but I want a lot of them, and they'd be cheaper this way.

[Cinephrenic]

How about bringing Jean-Pierre Melville's films out faster with a box of:

Le Deuxieme
Magnet of Doom
Deux hommes dans Manhattan
Le enfants terribles
Le Silence de la Mer

[backstreetsbackalright]

I believe Water Bearer still has Les enfants terribles. Last I heard from them (admittedly, about a year ago), they were working on the DVD.

[Cinephrenic]

One of the worst DVD companies that is.

[Anthony]

I dislike terrorism as much as the next guy... but if someone fire-bombed Water Bearer, I would probably stand up and cheer. =D>

[backstreetsbackalright]

I dislike terrorism as much as the next guy... but if someone fire-bombed Water Bearer, I would probably stand up and cheer. =D>

Jesus Christ people! Before you resort to napalm, there is a BFI disc out there...