The Criterion Price Point In The Future

[ByMarkClark.com]

That point was made early on. The problem, of course, is that the same places that will sell you a $40 Criterion disc 30 or 35 percent off will also sell you a $20 Warner disc at a similar discount -- so, comparatively speaking, Criterion discs remain more expensive.

I believe that they are worth the price difference, but nevertheless the price point does make me much more careful with my Criterion buys.

I'd say they should be dropped altogether and be re-released, just as they already started to do with some other titles.

Well, yes, that would be preferred. But will they reissue every old bare-bones $39.99 title? And, in the meantime, Criterion maintains the original MSRP, which these discs no longer merit.

However, if people pick up a sub-standard disc like "High and Low" only because they feel they need to complete their collection and can't go without a single film CC has released, well... fetishes have their price.

Or, to be somewhat more charitable, maybe they want HIGH AND LOW because it's a great film.

[Antoine Doinel]

That point was made early on. The problem, of course, is that the same places that will sell you a $40 Criterion disc 30 or 35 percent off will also sell you a $20 Warner disc at a similar discount -- so, comparatively speaking, Criterion discs remain more expensive.

Right, but for every classic picture Warner puts out they sell a boatload of Harry Potter discs to make up for any potential discs that don't sell to expectations.

Criterion unfortunately doesn't have that luxury. For a company that puts out roughly 70-80 discs per year, they don't have a lot of room for discs to sell poorly, hence a higher price point.

Also, seeing as how they restore the films inhouse, that could be costing them more than if they outsourced. They need to have qualified technicians on staff, who I imagine are unionized or at the very least command impressive salaries. Where other companies could send films out to houses that will bulk run them through a clean up process, I'm sure because of Criterion's more hands on approach, it drives up their production costs.

[ByMarkClark.com]

Criterion unfortunately doesn't have that luxury.

I understand why Criterion discs (and discs from other boutique labels) are priced as they are and, unlike some of the others who have posted on this thread, generally speaking, I don't have an issue with it.

In fact, given all the economic pressures on Criterion, I'm a bit surprised that they haven't INCREASED their base price points. They've been at 29.99/39.99 forever. I keep expecting the high-end, 2-disc sets to jump to 44.99 or 49.99 MSRP!

The only adjustment I think is needed is reducing the price on older, bare-bones titles.[/quote]

[dx23]

I do agree that Criterion should lower their prices, but still I understand their posture in not doing so.

Criterion is considered the BMW of DVDs. That is the image they want and that is what they get with their price point, dvd extras, a dvd presentation. Their target market are the film buffs, not the Joe Sixpacks. As long as thier market keeps buying, then there is no point in changing the price.

[zedz]

Licensing is a big ass red herring in this discussion. Anchor Bay, Milestone, Kino, Second Run/Sight, Image Ent, Blue Underground, Optimum, Tokyo Shock, Flicker Alley, not to mention the BFI & MoC... and on and on and on... deal with the licensing issue; all the Wade Williams and Kit Parker discs (some can be of so so quality but many are actually quite nice)... but none would ever slap a 39.99 retail price on a one- discer, at least not as a rule.

Isn't the 19.99 list price for MoC discs exactly the same as Criterion's 39.99? And that even applies to bare bones releases like Asphalt. Almost all of these releases are single disc, or with a commentary as the sole on-disc extra: it's very rare that MoC offers a stacked double disc at that price. Same with BFI (e.g. the extras-free Woman of the Dunes).

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. . .

[foggy eyes]

I didn't want to get involved either, but...

Second Run are making a remarkable effort to keep list prices down to £12.99, but Optimum, Second Sight, BFI and MoC have almost invaraiably held fast at the intial £19.99 (thus $39.99) list price for the immediate release of individual discs. What must be noted however is the subsequent drop in price for sales and sustained reductions: some BFIs and MoCs have never budged, but Optimum and Second Sight discs can always be picked up for considerably less if you are patient (for example: Optimum's La Chinoise is down to a tidy £5.97 at Amazon from £19.99 then £8.97 and so on).

[alandau]

Why all the bitchy-ing.

I buy all my Criterions at op-shops for $5-$10, being conscious not too appear eager or excited and give away the secret to the ignorant staff.

I am no label victim, and think it is ludicrous to pay $27 (discount onliners) for Oliver Twist, etc.
However, I do agree that the special editions with booklets are a "work of art".

Cheers

[Napoleon]

I do agree that Criterion should lower their prices, but still I understand their posture in not doing so.

Criterion is considered the BMW of DVDs. That is the image they want and that is what they get with their price point, dvd extras, a dvd presentation. Their target market are the film buffs, not the Joe Sixpacks. As long as thier market keeps buying, then there is no point in changing the price.

Was. They have made so many absurd decisions and stupid mistakes in the last 18 months. They are still the industries leading light, but the gap between them and those behind them has gotten smaller. This should compromise their ability to sell at the high price point, but as you say, as long as their market keeps buying. This is a little OT though, so I to bring it back...

The majority of the upper tier disks are still worth it because they usually go and make the extra $10 worthwhile.

Where they should be more sensible is the pricing of the of the ocassional single disks that don't have much in the way of extras bar a commentary.
If they showed a bit more common sense with these and dropped the extra 10 bucks and reduced the old bare bones $40 dollar discs down to $25 then IMO the pricing complaints would go away.

[Ishmael]

I probably own about 30 Criterion discs. To keep the math simple, let's assume I paid $22.72 per disc. (This is the average between $25.97 and $19.47, which are obviously the standard prices at DVD Planet.) This means I paid $681.60 for my 30 discs. Now, often I watch Criterion discs I'd love to own, but I simply can't justify the price to myself. There are easily 30 more Criterions I would definitely buy if the price were reduced to $15. Do the math: 60 discs (30 I already bought plus 30 I would buy) at $15 per disc equals $900. So Criterion has gotten $681 from me instead of the $900 they could have gotten. So who is their pricing structure benefitting? Neither me nor them.

[kekid]

I probably own about 30 Criterion discs. To keep the math simple, let's assume I paid $22.72 per disc. (This is the average between $25.97 and $19.47, which are obviously the standard prices at DVD Planet.) This means I paid $681.60 for my 30 discs. Now, often I watch Criterion discs I'd love to own, but I simply can't justify the price to myself. There are easily 30 more Criterions I would definitely buy if the price were reduced to $15. Do the math: 60 discs (30 I already bought plus 30 I would buy) at $15 per disc equals $900. So Criterion has gotten $681 from me instead of the $900 they could have gotten. So who is their pricing structure benefiting? Neither me nor them.

I do not wish to justify Criterion's pricing structure here, but this line of thinking needs to be commented on. Not all buyers of Criterion's product have the same purchase behavior as Ishmael. At the other extreme, if they lowered the price as suggested, Criterion would lose considerable revenue from people who buy most of their product at current price point any way. They need to make some projection of how much more they can sell to the entire population if they lowered the price, and determine if it is cost-justified. I think the performance of the Eclipse line, though not a direct substitute, will give them a good insight into the pricing structure of their market. They have taken a step in the direction of creating a two-tiered pricing. The Ozu set on Eclipse will be a great test of pricing elasticity. How many Eclipse Ozu's they will sell, compared to the full-priced Ozu's they issued (given that Ozu's on the Eclipse set are not second-tier works). I believe they will learn from this, and make adjustments as appropriate.
Of course I would be delighted if they sell great stuff at lower price. But I would be very sad if price wars run them out of business.

[HerrSchreck]

[/i]).Isn't the 19.99 list price for MoC discs exactly the same as Criterion's 39.99? And that even applies to bare bones releases like Asphalt. Almost all of these releases are single disc, or with a commentary as the sole on-disc extra: it's very rare that MoC offers a stacked double disc at that price. Same with BFI (e.g. the extras-free Woman of the Dunes).

Just when I thought I was out, they pull me back in. . .

(I think you volunteered on that one being the dollar fluxes....)

... verrrrrrrrrrrrrry cheeky indeed. Yes the dollar is drowning in the toilet at present swimming with all manner of low animal and discharge. SO it's a good time to make that argument in terms of currency conversion since the dollar is getting sand kicked in its face on the beach by all manner of foeriegn currency masquerading musclebound bully.

There are remnants speaking of better days. I've never in my life paid above mid twenties for BFI & MoC discs, and here in NYC from time to time, in a place that sells imports, there are MOC's market in that zone, remnants of the period when they bought them where the equivalency wasn't so high-- even with the shipping, store markup & duty built into it. I've never broken the thirty buck barrier for Moc's & BFI's.

And I fail to see how this addresses the red herring of Rights Acquisition being the "reason" CC's are more expensive than the studio releases of equal telecine & extras, i e on noir & horror 1-discers. Twas me blee'in point yer know...

Scuze me (scratch) dammit! (Itch!) Bugs under me skin! Lizards in the room!

[godardslave]

i think the price point of Criterion Discs is perfectly reasonable, for both the consumers and Criterion's own profitable existence.

Criterion have forced the whole dvd market to try to do better, and long may they continue to do so.

[Narshty]

Perhaps it was on the Naked City thread, but I was 'the other guy' bitching about Brute Force. I still think that one's bullshit. Of course I don't have TCM or Netflix here so I'll have to shell out for it...but I wish the CC would stick to films that would otherwise be neglected or that they can add worthwhile content to. That package just reeks of rip-off.

No idea why people are getting so upset over the "lack of extras" on Brute Force. Thieves' Highway had the same quantity of stuff (one scholarly commentary, minor but substantial video extras, trailer, not even a nice thick booklet) and everyone was (quite rightly) too excited about the film to start bitching. Why the outrage in this instance?

[skuhn8]

No idea why people are getting so upset over the "lack of extras" on Brute Force. Thieves' Highway had the same quantity of stuff (one scholarly commentary, minor but substantial video extras, trailer, not even a nice thick booklet) and everyone was (quite rightly) too excited about the film to start bitching. Why the outrage in this instance?

Oh don't even get me started on Thieves' Highway!!!

[cgray]

Right, but for every classic picture Warner puts out they sell a boatload of Harry Potter discs to make up for any potential discs that don't sell to expectations.

That's what I had been thinking the whole time I read this thread: WB sells a bunch of Batman so they can finance projects like The Searchers.

Meanwhile, Criterion relies on Seven Samurai to finance Paul Robeson. Not quite the same league.

(apologies if searchers and batman aren't owned by WB; i don't pay much attention to the studios/rights holders)