Cinema History Documentaries

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Awesome Welles · #1 Post by **Awesome Welles** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 2:24 pm

Can anyone recommend any good documentaries on cinema, like Scorsese's Personal Journey through American Movies or Il Mio Viaggio in Italia.

Thanks

exte · #2 Post by **exte** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 3:54 pm

That editing movie, The Cutting Edge, I hear is very well done...

Mysterypez · #3 Post by **Mysterypez** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:15 pm

Anything by Kevin Brownlow.

HOLLYWOOD (Your best bet is VHS at some library, the DVD is... well... it is a sad story)
CINEMA EUROPE: THE OTHER HOLLYWOOD (European Silent cinema)

He has done work on Chaplin, Keaton, DeMille, Chaney, Merian Cooper. All are authoritative.

There were the two on US 70's cinema. EASY RIDER, RAGING BULLS, and A DECADE UNDER THE INFLUENCE. Z CHANNEL from a couple years ago is a kissing cousin to these films.

THE KID STAYS IN THE PICTURE is about producer Robert Evans. It was pulpy fun.

There was that PBS documentary from about 15-20 years ago now that covered most of Hollywood history up to the mid 80s. Man, I am completely blanking on this one and I can't google the right combination of words to come up with it.

Edit: American Cinema! Man I am an idiot..... thanks Zumpano!

#4 Post by **domino harvey** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 4:20 pm

I second the Cinema Europe program, unfortunately the DVD is out of print, so you should hit up your university libraries and try to score a copy there.

Mise En Scene · #5 Post by **Mise En Scene** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:22 pm

Visions Of Light

The Fanciful Norwegian · Thu Jun 21, 2007 9:55 pm

Go through some "unofficial" channels and track down a copy of Los Angeles Plays Itself.

mmacklem · #7 Post by **mmacklem** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 10:25 pm

I would definitely second Z-Channel, very interesting documentary.

Zumpano · #8 Post by **Zumpano** » Thu Jun 21, 2007 11:38 pm

A decent series, and perhaps the PBS doc that Mysterypez was talking about, is "American Cinema". Each part discusses a different genre in film (war, film noir, screwball comedy, western) and its place in cinema history. They've been rerunning these for the past two months on my local PBS station, but the last part may have just aired on Sunday ("The Edge of Hollywood"; about independent cinema).

There are some good quotes and remarks by the usual suspects of talking heads (Bogdon, Scorsese, etc.), but this series seems like an introductory point into learning about film and its different genres. That is to say; it is more broadbased and less incisive than say "A Personal Journey Into American Cinema" (which personally, I could watch forever. I watch it when I'm sick. Hearing Scorsese talk about movies is like the best medicine).

LionelHutz · #9 Post by **LionelHutz** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:20 am

Glorious Technicolor is not on the same level as the one already posted (gotta love "Visions of light") but the subject is very interesting.
I found easy riders & raging bulls very disappointing..the book was nothing special,but at least it was salacious enough

Nuno · #10 Post by **Nuno** » Fri Jun 22, 2007 12:48 am

"OÃƒÂ¹ gÃ®t votre sourire enfoui?" (Where lies your hidden smile?), documentary by Pedro Costa about Straub-Huillet. A must-to-see.

SheriffAmbrose · #11 Post by **SheriffAmbrose** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:19 pm

Mysterypez wrote:Anything by Kevin Brownlow.

HOLLYWOOD (Your best bet is VHS at some library, the DVD is... well... it is a sad story)

What is the story on that?
Also the Chaplin Doc he made is on disc but not the Keaton, why is this the case?

tryavna · #12 Post by **tryavna** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 3:54 pm

SheriffAmbrose wrote:Also the Chaplin Doc he made is on disc but not the Keaton, why is this the case?

Not so!

Mysterypez · #13 Post by **Mysterypez** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 4:08 pm

SheriffAmbrose wrote:
Mysterypez wrote:Anything by Kevin Brownlow.

HOLLYWOOD (Your best bet is VHS at some library, the DVD is... well... it is a sad story)
What is the story on that?

It is all wrapped up in Rights issues. Nobody thought it would come out because of the myriad of clips that required rights clearance. And then last year a release date was announced for DVD. A ton of people got super excited. Amazon UK had a listing.... then it got pushed back, then it got pushed back again.... and then it disappeared.

I'm guessing there were clips that could not be cleared or rights owners who could not be found. Maybe someone in the group knows more......

SheriffAmbrose · #14 Post by **SheriffAmbrose** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 5:46 pm

Mysterypez wrote:It is all wrapped up in Rights issues. Nobody thought it would come out because of the myriad of clips that required rights clearance. And then last year a release date was announced for DVD. A ton of people got super excited. Amazon UK had a listing.... then it got pushed back, then it got pushed back again.... and then it disappeared.

I'm guessing there were clips that could not be cleared or rights owners who could not be found. Maybe someone in the group knows more......

That is sort of what I was expecting to hear. I didn't know that there was ever a release planned. So what's up with the Keaton one then (and the Lloyd one I guess)? The Unknown Chaplin DVD had some recently produced extras, this led me to believe that the others would follow but it has been a while since Unknown Chaplin was released and still nothing.

And while we are at it why is Cinema Europe out of print? Is that due to a rights issue too? I have seen used copies of that on Amazon for over two hundred dollars. I have it and in an odd way it is almost worth that much.

tryavna · #15 Post by **tryavna** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:45 pm

SheriffAmbrose wrote:So what's up with the Keaton one then (and the Lloyd one I guess)? The Unknown Chaplin DVD had some recently produced extras, this led me to believe that the others would follow but it has been a while since Unknown Chaplin was released and still nothing.

Umm, you do realize that there are DVDs available of both of Brownlow's Keaton documentaries.

Network released A Hard Act to Follow in the UK.

And So Funny It Hurt is available on Warner's two-disc Buster Keaton Collection.

I'm not sure why you keep referring to them as if they're unavailable anywhere.

SheriffAmbrose · #16 Post by **SheriffAmbrose** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 7:56 pm

tryavna wrote:I'm not sure why you keep referring to them as if they're unavailable anywhere.

I wasn't referring to them I was referring to Hard Act to Follow. So Funny it Hurts is rather slight. And I meant why isn't this available in the U.S. Thanks for the condesending head's up on the region two availablity. I guess it is good to know that that is a not-too-pricey option.

Can anyone tell me why the Griffith one (Father of Film) is not available in the United States?

tryavna · #17 Post by **tryavna** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:03 pm

SheriffAmbrose wrote:
tryavna wrote:Network released A Hard Act to Follow in the UK.
I wasn't referring to them I was referring to Hard Act to Follow.

Thanks for the condesending head's up on the region two availablity. I guess it is good to know that that is a not-too-pricey option.

You're welcome.

SheriffAmbrose · #18 Post by **SheriffAmbrose** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:11 pm

tryavna wrote:
SheriffAmbrose wrote:
tryavna wrote:Network released A Hard Act to Follow in the UK.
I wasn't referring to them I was referring to Hard Act to Follow.

Sorry I meant I wasn't referring to both of the documentaries Brownlow made about Buster Keaton. I was talking exclusively about Hard Act to Follow. I wasn't too knock out by the other one. I hope this clears things up.

Scharphedin2 · #19 Post by **Scharphedin2** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 8:21 pm

When I was relatively new to the laserdisc medium in the early '90s, I picked up a disc called Hollywood Mavericks. Looking back, it was probably short on information for anyone with a fairly strong background in film history, but at the time this disc used to give me a big rush, every time I would view it.

The program followed the history of American film, and zeroed in on some of the most independent and original personalities -- the mavericks (of course based on a quote by Orson Welles). Amongst the featured directors were von Stroheim, von Sternberg, Welles, Fuller, Cassavetes, Peckinpah, Coppola, Altman, Scorsese, Lynch and a few others. There were a lot of great film clips and interview footage with the various directors.

I think I remember seeing it released on DVD.

Quot · #20 Post by **Quot** » Sat Jun 23, 2007 9:27 pm

I like, and recommend, The Celluloid Closet (based on Vito Russo's groundbreaking book (also recommended) for highlighting all those moments in cinema history where homosexuality was incorporporated (frequently negatively) into film very deceptively, in order to work around the Hays Code, especially how attitudes didn't change as quickly as one would hope after the code ceased to be..more a reflection of the times I guess, or Hollywood powers-that-be at the time. Still, a fascinating documentary and the DVD has tons of extras that supplement the film.

MichaelB · #21 Post by **MichaelB** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 3:20 pm

SheriffAmbrose wrote:And while we are at it why is Cinema Europe out of print? Is that due to a rights issue too? I have seen used copies of that on Amazon for over two hundred dollars. I have it and in an odd way it is almost worth that much.

If the BBC is the primary rightsholder - which it may be, as it was the commissioning company - I suspect whoever released the DVD signed a standard limited-term agreement which expired recently and either wasn't or couldn't be renewed.

For similar reasons, the BFI's BBC-sourced Archive Television titles are gradually going out of print (Elgar is still available, but Cathy Come Home and The War Game now fetch tidy sums on eBay), and I suspect they'll all be OOP before too long - I think the licensing term was five years.

tryavna · #22 Post by **tryavna** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:36 pm

MichaelB wrote:For similar reasons, the BFI's BBC-sourced Archive Television titles are gradually going out of print (Elgar is still available, but Cathy Come Home and The War Game now fetch tidy sums on eBay), and I suspect they'll all be OOP before too long - I think the licensing term was five years.

Michael, any chance of some of these titles reappearing? One of my major DVD regrets is that I never got around to buying Cathy Come Home. Considering its historical stature, it'd be a shame if I had to wait a very long time for another opportunity to get it.

MichaelB · #23 Post by **MichaelB** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:44 pm

tryavna wrote:Michael, any chance of some of these titles reappearing?

I have absolutely no idea, I'm afraid - though I can confirm from personal experience that it's getting increasingly hard to licence BBC material for distribution in the UK. Without going into too much detail, let's just say that the absence of the 25-minute BBC documentary Animator of Prague from the BFI's Jan Svankmajer box wasn't due to a careless oversight on my part!

So if anyone's going to reissue these titles, the chances are it'll be the BBC itself - though probably without the scholarly extras, as these were created by the BFI.

Awesome Welles · #24 Post by **Awesome Welles** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:51 pm

The War Game is now unavailable everywhere I have tried and on ebay is available for around Ã‚Â£20. The last best places to try are smaller stores like Fopp although they never really stock many copies to begin with.

We can only hope they are picked up again for distribution although after a five year deal I imagine that any distributor is going to be thinking that they'd rather go after something that has been out of print awhile whilst demand picks again up for titles like The War Game. Cathy Come Home is on ebay for reasonable prices.

tryavna · #25 Post by **tryavna** » Thu Jun 28, 2007 4:59 pm

FS, The War Game is available, along with Culloden, on an excellent R1 disc from Project X (via distribution through New Yorker). You can -- and should -- purchase it from Amazon or DVD Empire.

BTW, unfortunately, some of those "reasonable prices" on eBay only get you pirated copies. If you look at the feedback for the seller you listed, you'll see at least two different negative responses that indicate the seller was offering pirated copies of Brass Eye. If I were despearte, I'd just bite the bullet and pay the higher price being asked in the Amazon UK marketplace.

I guess I can only hope, as I mentioned in passing above, that the stature of Cathy Come Home and its director will ensure that somebody eventually picks it up. Considering Project X's obvious political and cultural leanings, they might be persuaded. Thanks for the (depressing) info, though, Michael.

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