Film Noir suggestions

[skuhn8]

I'll step aside for that discussion, because though there were trends here & there, I truly believe labels like "Noir" were invented by critics so that they can organize their viewing into a science to make it sound like serves some greater function than it actually does. I sincerely mean it when I say that. There is no contemporary evidence to indicate that directors of crime-dramas approx 1944-55 had any idea they were doing anything called "Noir", or that there was any qualifiying formula. Most practitioners never heard the term while they were making key films of the genre, and most of them wished they could have been making other pictures as these were mostly B-list pictures. Directors still alive are glad to sit and talk about those pictures today as though they were part of a revolutionary movement, but the fact is back then most of them cast an envious eye on directors of higher grade pictures and were just making the best of fading talent (whom they desperately didn't want to join) and variable-quality scripts. The formula most talk about ("femme fatales, etc") are usually carryovers from detective novel thrillers i e Chandler. What we call Noir represents a period crime melodramas went thru, but certainly shadowy, brutal crime melodramas had been around since the gangster flicks of Chaney in the 20's. Much of "noir" was just a snapshot of the natural progression of certain cinematic "chic"s & dark glamorizations of the street which had been around since the silent/early talkie era. The hats, the gowns, the hardboiled fatlistic men, prisons, the chiaroscuro-- all except the genuine obsession 45-55 with the 'private dick' which again was chandler-- they all have their dispositions in surrounding eras too. Our view today is very nostalgic ex-post facto isolation of what was an ongoing development of the b&w crime drama unconcerned with "feelgood".

Oh, in posing my questions I wasn't suggesting that "film noir" as a title, trend or pseudo-genre is anything more than a label of convenience. It just makes looking back on a scattered collection of work which shares a number of traits--albeit those traits are certainly not exclusive to this collection--a little easier. I'm confident that Hathaway or whoever didn't approach the head of the studio "Look, Darryl, I've got this great idea for a film noir". It's an invention, but a useful invention. No?

So, Herrshrek, don't hold out on me, quit being a wise guy, give me the goods....or you'll gets whats comin' to ya.

[otis]

Slant's recent feature on B Noir
Jonathan Rosenbaum's Ten Overlooked Noirs

[Billy Liar]

Id also love to see a release of The Sniper. You should also have a look at Detour and Born To Kill which are - for me at least - two of the most twisted and hilarious Noirs I've seen.

[HerrSchreck]

All the Jules Dassin you can get your hands on (the CC's plus NAKED CITY & BRUTE FORCE), the Mann's.. do not for the life of you miss Calvacanti's THEY MADE ME A FUGITIVE (nobody talks about this which is at least as good as SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS scriptwise but far more "noir"ish in hardboiled subject matter), DETOUR is a great foundational film, like BEHIND LOCKED DOORS and THE HITCH-HIKER a masterpiece with a budget of about $1.37.. Lon Chaney/Wallace Worsleys THE PENALTY is gotta be the first superdark supervicious crime drama masterpiece aka "noir"... the John Garfeild's aka FORCE OF EVIL & BODY AND SOUL. Another great boxing "noir" is THE SET-UP. For TWilightzone/avant/ beatnik "noir" see JJ Parker's DEMENTIA. DARK CORNER is classic private dick "noir".

[skuhn8]

All the Jules Dassin you can get your hands on (the CC's plus NAKED CITY & BRUTE FORCE), the Mann's.. do not for the life of you miss Calvacanti's THEY MADE ME A FUGITIVE (nobody talks about this which is at least as good as SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS scriptwise but far more "noir"ish in hardboiled subject matter), DETOUR is a great foundational film, like BEHIND LOCKED DOORS and THE HITCH-HIKER a masterpiece with a budget of about $1.37.. Lon Chaney/Wallace Worsleys THE PENALTY is gotta be the first superdark supervicious crime drama masterpiece aka "noir"... the John Garfeild's aka FORCE OF EVIL & BODY AND SOUL. Another great boxing "noir" is THE SET-UP. For TWilightzone/avant/ beatnik "noir" see JJ Parker's DEMENTIA. DARK CORNER is classic private dick "noir".

Ahh...The Set-Up. That's a fine piece of work. Sadly the commentary on that one sheds almost no light on the process or experience of making this short masterpiece (ok, throwing that word around a little loosely). When I first watched this I couldn't help but wonder if this is the "boxing piksha" Barton Fink would have written if not for that damn palooka in the next room...ok, it was supposed to be a wrestling picture.

Wish I could get my hands on the recent CC Dassins. They sound fantastic, and Tierney in one of them...MMmmmm. But Rififi is an absolute blast. That final driving sequence glued into my memory circuitry for sure. The third time I watched it I made sure to do it in a double bill with Big Deal on Madonna Street to swim in the sweet artistry of the safe cracking episode. Never did silence sound so sweet as in Rififi!

Noone wants to trade me a CC Dassin for some hard to find elsewhere Hungarian cinema? C'mon!!!

[souvenir]

then of course, the original LE SAMOURAI, HE WALKED BY NIGHT

If He Walked by Night is the original Le Samourai then what is This Gun for Hire, which has Alan Ladd playing a character almost identical to Delon's Jef Costello.

I'd also like to recommend Ride the Pink Horse, which I'm still waiting for on dvd.

[HerrSchreck]

I hear you-- more of a general character aroma viz looks & occupation. I'm talking about specific plot details.. the connection to & reliance on a pet, the single-room spartan solitide, the self-surgeries, the blonde haired blue-eyed ubermensch, ah-- I wrote it over on the LE SAMOURAI thread:

His poignant relationship with an adorable housepet (who keys him in to the presence of the police/opponents), the sparse single room, the ascetic monkish solitary existence, the blonde hair blue-eyed handsome features, his occupation of the uppermost pinnacle of lone-wolf criminal royalty, the self-medical attending to gunshot wounds at home, the resting in bed thinking, the cop/hero doubling, the admiration/resentment of the law for his skills, the complete lack of details about the master criminal's personal history as well as his hopes and dreams, the inevitable police trap at the end, the drawing in of criminals citywide in the beginning in the 'dragnet' to try and nab him early on in a fast bulk reel-in of all suspicious characters... these devices were employed most expertly in HE WALKED BY NIGHT.

[pemmican]

Not a lot of new noir titles to add to the list, but I wanted to reiterate that IN A LONELY PLACE is a must-have film. Also wanted to mention that I was delighted by a recent noir reworking called HIT ME, based on Jim Thompson's A SWELL LOOKING BABE; it was unseen theatrically and then dumped onto DVD after the director, Steven Shainberg's (somewhat inferior and silly) second film, SECRETARY, was a hit. Things to recommend it: it's a fine engagement of the noir genre, and understand what makes noir noir; it has some great dialogue by Denis "Jesus' Son" Johnson; and there's a fine, somewhat over-the-top and deNiro-inflected performance by Elias Koteas, who seldom gets to run away with a character like he does here. There's also a better-than-average Phillip Baker Hall performance (although Phillip Baker Hall seems to be Phillip Baker Hall in about every role he plays, I kind of like him). http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0116538/ -- don't be misled by William H. Macy's face on the box, he only has a tiny role.

A.

[HerrSchreck]

Very intelligent NYTimes review of THEY MADE ME A FUGITIVE (without doubt Trevor Howard's best career performance and probably Calvacanti's best film), a real noir's noir... back alleys, seething dialog, trigger tempers, rotting collapsing architecture, brooding chiaroscuro, corruption bursting at the seams. May be tied for my all time favorites, along w SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS, & the Mann/Alton's:

They Made Me a Fugitivea k a I Became a Criminal
1947-UK-Film Noir/Crime Drama


DVD REVIEW
From All Movie Guide: Alberto Cavalcanti's They Made Me A Fugitive (1947) has been released by Kino International in what has to be its best looking incarnation in several decades. A production of Warner Bros.' British unit, the movie has been preserved as part of England's National Film Archive and transferred from an extremely sharp, bright source. There are some blemishes and signs of wear, as well as a single shot that looks solarized, but the video master has captured Otto Heller's brooding cinematography of the setting in Soho's sleazy shops, taverns, and back alleys. Even the night shots reveal useful picture information, and the clarity allows one to fully appreciate the care with which every shot of this drama was devised, down to the most seemingly insignificant edit. This is a movie that operates on several levels, as an intense story of betrayal and revenge, and also an extremely clever visual tour-de-force by Heller and Cavalcanti; some of those shots, such as the meeting between Clem(Trevor Howard) and Sally (Sally Gray) at the prison, are constructed so cleverly, that they will quietly dazzle the viewer; others, such as the scene in which Narcy (Griffith Jones) beats up Sally, are a little too arty for their own good. But that particular sequence is so brief as to be forgivable. The clarity also allows one to appreciate fully the startling physical transformation that Trevor Howard evidently underwent for this role -- he looks as though he starved himself for at least a week to get into convincing shape as a convict on the run; coupled with what could be the best acting performance of his whole career, all of it seen in optimum condition on these film materials, this is a DVD that offers multiple (indeed, compound) rewards. The sound has been mastered at a very healthy volume which audiences will doubly appreciate, given the amount of very quiet dialogue and thickly accented British English used throughout. There's a momentary flaw in the visual transfer at around 71 minutes, but it lasts for a fraction of a second. The 96 minute movie has been given 16 chapters that are well chosen and nicely outline the key points in the plot -- there are no bonus materials, but the movie makes a full disc on its own. The annotation is reasonably thorough, though it does rather undersell the film -- along with Cavalcanti's documentary-style, neo-realist approach to the story are some visual set pieces that would have been worthy of the work of Powell and Pressburger. ~ Bruce Eder, All Movie Guide

[tryavna]

Very intelligent NYTimes review of THEY MADE ME A FUGITIVE (without doubt Trevor Howard's best career performance and probably Calvacanti's best film), a real noir's noir... back alleys, seething dialog, trigger tempers, rotting collapsing architecture, brooding chiaroscuro, corruption bursting at the seams. May be tied for my all time favorites, along w SWEET SMELL OF SUCCESS, & the Mann/Alton's:

They Made Me a Fugitivea k a I Became a Criminal
1947-UK-Film Noir/Crime Drama


DVD REVIEW
From All Movie Guide: Alberto Cavalcanti's They Made Me A Fugitive (1947) has been released by Kino International in what has to be its best looking incarnation in several decades. A production of Warner Bros.' British unit, the movie has been preserved as part of England's National Film Archive and transferred from an extremely sharp, bright source. There are some blemishes and signs of wear, as well as a single shot that looks solarized, but the video master has captured Otto Heller's brooding cinematography of the setting in Soho's sleazy shops, taverns, and back alleys. Even the night shots reveal useful picture information, and the clarity allows one to fully appreciate the care with which every shot of this drama was devised, down to the most seemingly insignificant edit. This is a movie that operates on several levels, as an intense story of betrayal and revenge, and also an extremely clever visual tour-de-force by Heller and Cavalcanti; some of those shots, such as the meeting between Clem(Trevor Howard) and Sally (Sally Gray) at the prison, are constructed so cleverly, that they will quietly dazzle the viewer; others, such as the scene in which Narcy (Griffith Jones) beats up Sally, are a little too arty for their own good. But that particular sequence is so brief as to be forgivable. The clarity also allows one to appreciate fully the startling physical transformation that Trevor Howard evidently underwent for this role -- he looks as though he starved himself for at least a week to get into convincing shape as a convict on the run; coupled with what could be the best acting performance of his whole career, all of it seen in optimum condition on these film materials, this is a DVD that offers multiple (indeed, compound) rewards. The sound has been mastered at a very healthy volume which audiences will doubly appreciate, given the amount of very quiet dialogue and thickly accented British English used throughout. There's a momentary flaw in the visual transfer at around 71 minutes, but it lasts for a fraction of a second. The 96 minute movie has been given 16 chapters that are well chosen and nicely outline the key points in the plot -- there are no bonus materials, but the movie makes a full disc on its own. The annotation is reasonably thorough, though it does rather undersell the film -- along with Cavalcanti's documentary-style, neo-realist approach to the story are some visual set pieces that would have been worthy of the work of Powell and Pressburger. ~ Bruce Eder, All Movie Guide

I just wanted to second Schreck's recommendation of this superb Brit Noir! Unfortunately, I must confess that I've always been a bit disappointed by Kino's release: like their release of Contraband, it's clearly not progressive, and I fear it may be PAL->NTSC (the DVD's running time is the tell-tale 4% shorter than most listings I've seen). And the sound is a bit weak (though that's true of most British films of that era). Nevertheless, it's one of those instances where I'm just happy Kino took the time to make it available.

By the way, something that neither Schreck nor Eder mentions is that it also contains one of the coldest femme fatales I've ever run across -- a woman who aids Howard during his escape only to persaude him to do away with her husband. Her calculated response when Howard turns her down is perfect....

[HerrSchreck]

I just wanted to second Schreck's recommendation of this superb Brit Noir! Unfortunately, I must confess that I've always been a bit disappointed by Kino's release: like their release of Contraband, it's clearly not progressive, and I fear it may be PAL->NTSC (the DVD's running time is the tell-tale 4% shorter than most listings I've seen). And the sound is a bit weak (though that's true of most British films of that era). Nevertheless, it's one of those instances where I'm just happy Kino took the time to make it available.

By the way, something that neither Schreck nor Eder mentions is that it also contains one of the coldest femme fatales I've ever run across -- a woman who aids Howard during his escape only to persaude him to do away with her husband. Her calculated response when Howard turns her down is perfect....

On the DVD itself I'd say I think (if I remember correct) it's just a straight interlanced NTSC transfer, there's no ghosting.

As for that woman, I don't see her as a true femme fatale-- there's no love or sex interest.. she's plump, disintegrating, and just completely nuts! Her slow spaced out nature is fabulous- all the actors are. But of course I don't subscribe to the femme fatale theory with any enthusiasm, it's a tight box that only very few female characters fit squarely in.

On the interpretation, Vive la difference

[porquenegar]

I'll second the recommendation for The Killing. I recently picked up the LD and watched this. A terrific movie. I've decided to take the day off of work and make a day trip to Palm Springs on June 2, 2006 to catch this on the big screen at the Palm Springs Film Noir Festival along with T-Men, Blue Gardenia, and Ace in the Hole. What a line-up.

[porquenegar]

I'll second the recommendation for The Killing. I recently picked up the LD and watched this. A terrific movie. I've decided to take the day off of work and make a day trip to Palm Springs on June 2, 2006 to catch this on the big screen at the Palm Springs Film Noir Festival along with T-Men, Blue Gardenia, and Ace in the Hole. What a line-up.

Great day in Palm Springs today. Eddie Muller was there and interviewed Coleen Gray (Nightmare Alley, Kiss of Death, The Killing...) and Richard Erdman (Blue Gardenia, Stalag 17). Erdman is hilarious and told some good stories about Otto Preminger & Billy Wilder. Coleen Gray waxed peotic on her crush on Tyrone Power and her respect and admiration from Capra. She is a very spry 83 year old.

Regarding the films themselves,

T-Men was gritty and hardhitting. The photography was the most noir-like of the films screened today. Lots of dark shadows and odd angles. The death scene of Schemer in the turkish bath is one of the best I've ever seen. Great!

I had seen Blue Gardenia before and the second viewing didn't really raise my appreciation of it. It just falls flat. Conte's character just didn't make sense to me. He's at supposedly a ladykilling, do anything to get his story reporter but then just turns to mush once he figures out that Anne Baxter's character is a "good girl" and not a tramp. The characters actors, Raymond Burr, Ann Sothern and Richard Erdman pretty much steal the show. Burr is particularly great as a smooth talking womanizer artist.

Ace in the Hole vaulted to the top of my disturbing twisted noir title. Truly shocking in parts and funny in a black humor kind of way in certain spots. There isn't a single good character in the whole movie. It is incredulous how the characters keep outdoing themselves and get more and more depraved as the film goes on. It is funny at first, but you end up feeling like you need a shower when it's over. The last 20 minutes of the film are extremely bleak. I can only imagine what the audience reception would have been to this Wilder film. Not good. The movie was way ahead of its time, IMO. The print was very good and I hope Paramount finally puts this on DVD.

The Killers got the best reception of all the films screened. I love everything about the movie. The pace is just relentless and the cast is steller. Everyone is great in it. Marie Windsor stole the show and got the most laughs with her dialogue but everyone is great in it. I'm glad I got a chance to see it on the big screen.

I won't be able to make it to any of the other days but it was worth the 15 hour day trip.

[skuhn8]

Just finished watching This Gun For Hire. Holy Mackeral! What the hell was that? I've been able to quietly live my life by the maxim that there are no bad film noirs. But that just went out the window 30 minutes into that cinematic atrocity when I realized that the nonsense just wasn't about to let up. Has anyone read the Graham Greene source novel to this. Did Universal just hire someone to pick random pages out of the novel and adapt?

[ByMarkClark.com]

I didn't like THIS GUN FOR HIRE the first time I saw it, either, but it's grown on me quite a bit over the years. I now consider the wackiness of the plot -- a romantic hit man redeemed by patriotism? -- one of the film's strengths, along with the cool-as-a-cucumber performance of Alan Ladd and the ever-luscious Veronica Lake.

[skuhn8]

I love Veronica Lake and I think she does a fine job. Alan Ladd pulls in a nice one-note performance (heck, that's what the film calls for right?) but it's Frank Tuttle's brain-dead direction sloppy plotting that kill me. Or maybe it's just the editing? The characters just sort of meander through their paces. But I have to confess that I love how

Spoiler

near the end as the Raven is nearing his target they have the chauffer conveniently keep his gas mask on even though everyone else has long discarded there's (heck, there's even a guided tour going on!) so that 'there's nothing out of the ordinary' when the Raven takes on the chauffer costume and gas mask to infiltrate Wells' office.

They must've put a good lunch break into that script development.

[Scharphedin2]

I have had the Raw Deal/T-Men combo from VCI on back order for a long time, but I think this has now gone out of print. A check through the e-tailers that I usually trade with reveals that not only is this release currently unavailable, but so are the individual releases of these titles from VCI, and Sony (they released the films in 2005), and also the Roan triple feature release which additionally included He Walked By Night.

First, this makes me wonder if something even better is on its way in region 1? Secondly, both films are available as singles and double-bill from the French Wild Side label, which has a pretty magnificent track record. Has anyone picked up these releases? Are they in as good quality as their other noir releases (the Dassins, Caugt, Secret Beyond the Door, etc.)?

[HerrSchreck]

I have had the Raw Deal/T-Men combo from VCI on back order for a long time, but I think this has now gone out of print. A check through the e-tailers that I usually trade with reveals that not only is this release currently unavailable, but so are the individual releases of these titles from VCI, and Sony (they released the films in 2005), and also the Roan triple feature release which additionally included He Walked By Night.

First, this makes me wonder if something even better is on its way in region 1? Secondly, both films are available as singles and double-bill from the French Wild Side label, which has a pretty magnificent track record. Has anyone picked up these releases? Are they in as good quality as their other noir releases (the Dassins, Caugt, Secret Beyond the Door, etc.)?

It's not surprising the superior VCI went out of print (thank god I grabbed it years ago) since Sony put out unimproved releases of RAW DEAL & T-MEN. beev caps for RAW DEAL, which are now the official releases for R1 of these two masterpieces. Neither were optimal of course (including the VCI) but to my eyes the VCI had the edge, and of course the DARK REFECTIONS featurette along with the blitz of noir trailers (along with a wild one with Preminger for MAN W GOLDEN ARM being interviewed on the set w Kim Novak about the daring subject matter etc).

[Person]

Short documentary on cinematographer, John Alton:

Part 1

Part 2

Enjoy.

[Greathinker]

Can anyone comment on these public domain sets, like the Ultimate Film Noir Collection, Classic Film Noir 9 movie pack, and Film Noir 10 movie set. I think most have the same selection of films. But the price is right and the reviews are positive, you can get any of them for around 10 bucks.

[Belmondo]

Can anyone comment on these public domain sets, like the Ultimate Film Noir Collection, Classic Film Noir 9 movie pack, and Film Noir 10 movie set. I think most have the same selection of films. But the price is right and the reviews are positive, you can get any of them for around 10 bucks.

I have the Classic Film Noir 9 movie 3 DVD package and it is certainly worth the $14.99 I paid for it.
Have not yet watched all of them, but it is clear that the quality varies greatly.
I was hoping for a decent print of one of my favorites - TOO LATE FOR TEARS (aka KILLER BAIT) - but there are so many film breaks that you will suffer a bad case of nerves waiting for the next one. However, most of what is there is less fuzzy than the other pd print available.
Others, like THE SCAR, D.O.A., and THE SRTANGE LOVE OF MARTHA IVERS have a uniform slightly hazy quality, but are acceptable.

Worth the money, in my opinion.

[Gregory]

Earlier in the thread there were some comparisons of He Walked By Night to Le Samourai. I can see that, but I also found the rhythm and feel of He Walked somewhat similar to High and Low, from the shock of the initial crime through the dragnet phase and the final pursuit. Anyway, it’s a top-tier noir. Lots of wonderfully directed and photographed “action sequences” showing Basehart, the detectives etc. moving through the cinematic space, with sparse or no dialogue.
Of course Mann and DP John Alton had a great working relationship on other films like Raw Deal, T-Men, and Border Incident. Alton also worked on The Scar. HerrSchreck has raved elsewhere about this one, so I’ll simply reaffirm the praise. It’s one of the best Alpha Video purchases I’ve made.

[HerrSchreck]

Which one was an Alpha, Greg-- The Scar or He Walked By Night? HWBN has a lovely MGM release with a pristine transfer from excellent elements (far surpasses it's sister titles T-Men & Raw Deal from either VCI or Sony.. which seem to be from the same telecine). The Scar has a passable release from VCI, which pairs it with The Limping Man (an old UK crime drama).

[Gregory]

I have the MGM of He Walked. It was the Alpha release of The Scar I was referring to in that part of my post.
Perhaps I should have bought the VCI Scar so I could get The Limping Man, though I'm probably all right without it.
Best part of all was getting the MGM He Walked by Night for the price of an Alpha disc. DD had it priced at $4.49 a few months ago.

[knives]

This looks like as good a place as any
Is Series Noire available anywhere? Haven't actually seen the whole thing, but from what little I have it looks wonderful.