The Alternative American Film List

[Person]

1. Paths of Glory (1957)
2. The Conversation (1974)
3. The Thing (1982)
4. The Magnificent Ambersons (1942)
5. Touch of Evil (1958)
6. Pat Garrett & Billy the Kid (1973)
7. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
8. The Train (1964)
9. Seconds (1966)
10. Dog Day Afternoon (1975)
11. Point Blank (1967)
12. The Lady Eve (1941)
13. The Long Goodbye (1973)
14. McCabe & Mrs. Miller (1971)
15. Electra Glide in Blue (1973)
16. Videodrome (1983)
17. Harold and Maude (1971)
18. Catch-22 (1970)
19. A Christmas Story (1983)
20. Cockfighter (1974)
21. Cool Hand Luke (1967)
22. Dawn of the Dead (1978)
23. Deliverance (1972)
24. The Devil and Daniel Webster (1941)
25. Fail-Safe (1964)
26. Back to the Future (1985)
27. The King of Comedy (1983)
28. Love and Death (1975)
29. The Man Who Would Be King (1975)
30. Mean Streets (1973)
31. Midnight Run (1988)
32. Rosemary's Baby (1968)
33. This Is Spinal Tap (1984)
34. The Elephant Man (1980)
35. Emperor of the North Pole (1973)
36. Five Easy Pieces (1970)
37. The Hustler (1961)
38. In Cold Blood (1967)
39. Mishima: A Life in Four Chapters (1985)
40. The Ninth Configuration (1980)
41. The Omen (1976)
42. Planet of the Apes (1968)
43. Portrait of Jennie (1948)
44. Repo Man (1984)
45. RoboCop (1987)
46. Seven Days in May (1964)
47. The Terminator (1984)
48. The Warriors (1979)
49. Lone Star (1996)
50. Force of Evil (1948)

[Jeff]

1. The Conversation (1974)
2. The Night of the Hunter (1955)
3. The Magnificent Ambersons (1942)
4. The Lady Eve (1941)
5. Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
6. Days of Heaven (1978)
7. Out of the Past (1947)
8. His Girl Friday (1940)
9. Shadow of a Doubt (1942)
10. In a Lonely Place (1950)
11. Rio Bravo (1959)
12. Touch of Evil (1958)
13. Ace in the Hole (1951)
14. Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
15. The Killing (1956)
16. Notorious (1946)
17. Adam's Rib (1949)
18. The Big Sleep (1946)
19. A Woman Under the Influence (1974)
20. Killer of Sheep (1977)
21. Seven Men From Now (1956)
22. The Long Goodbye (1973)
23. Blue Velvet (1986)
24. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)
25. Trouble in Paradise (1932)
26. McCabe & Mrs. Miller (1971)
27. Five Easy Pieces (1970)
28. Dog Day Afternoon (1975)
29. Pickup on South Street (1953)
30. Strangers on a Train (1951)
31. A Face in the Crowd (1957)
32. Paths of Glory (1957)
33. Mildred Pierce (1945)
34. Point Blank (1967)
35. Young Frankenstein (1974)
36. The Asphalt Jungle (1950)
37. Johnny Guitar (1954)
38. Anatomy of a Murder (1959)
39. Bad Day at Black Rock (1955)
40. The Ox-Bow Incident (1943)
41. Night Moves (1975)
42. The Big Red One (1980)
43. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2004)
44. Ninotchka (1939)
45. The Naked Spur (1953)
46. My Darling Clementine (1946)
47. Blood Simple (1984)
48. Avanti! (1972)
49. Blow Out (1981)
50. I Am a Fugitive From a Chain Gang (1932)

[souvenir]

1.) In a Lonely Place (1950)
2.) Notorious (1946)
3.) Ace in the Hole (1951)
4.) The Conversation (1974)
5.) The Palm Beach Story (1942)
6.) Trouble in Paradise (1932)
7.) His Girl Friday (1940)
8.) A Face in the Crowd (1957)
9.) Paths of Glory (1957)
10.) Monsieur Verdoux (1947)
11.) The Big Heat (1953)
12.) Point Blank (1967)
13.) After Hours (1985)
14.) Johnny Guitar (1954)
15.) The Long Goodbye (1973)
16.) Blue Velvet (1986)
17.) Kiss Me Deadly (1955)
18.) Winchester '73 (1950)
19.) The Lady Eve (1941)
20.) Midnight (1939)
21.) Mean Streets (1973)
22.) One, Two, Three (1961)
23.) The Royal Tenenbaums (2001)
24.) The Awful Truth (1937)
25.) The Shop Around the Corner (1940)
26.) The Big Sleep (1946)
27.) Scarlet Street (1945)
28.) Touch of Evil (1958)
29.) 25th Hour (2002)
30.) The Night of the Hunter (1955)
31.) Being There (1979)
32.) A Woman Under the Influence (1974)
33.) Sweet Smell of Success (1957)
34.) L.A. Confidential (1997)
35.) Paper Moon (1973)
36.) Rushmore (1998)
37.) Design for Living (1933)
38.) Seconds (1966)
39.) Manhattan (1979)
40.) The Set-Up (1949)
41.) The Hustler (1961)
42.) Dog Day Afternoon (1975)
43.) The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (1962)
44.) On Dangerous Ground (1952)
45.) Avanti! (1972)
46.) Pickup on South Street (1953)
47.) Young Frankenstein (1974)
48.) The Naked Kiss (1964)
49.) Red River (1948)
50.) Laura (1944)

[domino harvey]

I guess you guys aren't planning on seeing any American movies for the next six months

[Jeff]

I guess you guys aren't planning on seeing any American movies for the next six months

I just don't see the point in dragging it out six months. I may discover a few American masterpieces between now and the end of the year, but the odds that I'll see enough to dramatically change my list are pretty slim. I've got another 100 films waiting in the wings that it's killing me not to include as it is.

[Gropius]

Doesn't the posting of lists direct to this thread rather defeat the eventual surprise element (so far The Conversation appears to have it sewn up)?

Also, I think a several-month deadline is a good idea in order to attract a higher number of entries.

[Awesome Welles]

I think that given time things will change, not everyone is going to look as favourably on The Conversation (it's 23 on my list at the moment) I think there'll be a few films to mix it up for the top spot, the long deadline will certainly see to that, although it probably really is limited to a handful.

Personally I am going to find more interesting the latter part of the list which is more likely to contain the more obscure American films requiring attention.

[Jeff]

Doesn't the posting of lists direct to this thread rather defeat the eventual surprise element?

Maybe, but I think that those who want to be surprised can just not read the lists. Personally, I'm even more interested in the thoughts of several of our individual members than I am the consensus, so I enjoy seeing the lists posted. There are going to be lots of gems to discover that won't make the final list. I suppose I could have waited until January to post my list to this thread, but I'd rather have a new list or two to look at each day rather than have 200 lists posted on January 1.

[GringoTex]

Revised List- see Dec 31. post.

[Jeff]

22 Barry Lyndon

Good list, Gringo, but I don't believe Barry Lyndon will count in the final tabulation as it is credited solely to the U.K. I would consider Straw Dogs to be primarily British too, even though it is credited to to "UK/USA." I guess it does technically follow the rules though, and I considered sneaking it in there myself. I'm curious as to what people think about including Sergio Leone's Once Upon a Time... films. They are both credited as "Italy/USA" at IMDb. I think that seems fairly reasonable for America, though it didn't quite make my list. I have a hard time viewing Once Upon a Time in the West as anything but an Italian film though. Were I willing to consider it American, it would have been a lock for my number one slot.

[Awesome Welles]

Once Upon A Time in America is going on my list I see it as an equally American as Italian film. I agree with you Jeff, I see ...West as Italian.

It is a real shame that Barry Lyndon won't make it onto any of our lists (I think it would have been a real contender for my No. 1 spot).

[jonp72]

Wow! I'm glad that there's a groundswell against the AFI, and I never expected such a response. First of all, I have to have a final list of 100 films. This means that I cannot call off submission until I get 100 films with at least 2 votes. In addition, please send me your lists to me as a personal message. Aside from the suspense aspect, Criterion Forum sends me e-mail notification every time I get a message to my inbox, which will ensure that I don't forget anybody in the tabulations.

Otherwise, I'm not technically opposed to moving up the deadline earlier, but there are some die-hard listmakers on the 1950s List who haven't weighed in yet. In addition, there's a Shorts List scheduled for August 31, 2007 and a 1960s List scheduled for October 31, 2007. If I retain the December deadline, that will keep the lists neatly staggered. However, I am willing to accommodate people if the popular demand is strong enough to move up the deadline earlier. If you have any opinion about the deadlines (whether you are pro or con about moving the deadline earlier), please let me know with a personal message. I'll try to keep my eyes peeled on this thread. If I have time, I can tell you how many films so far have 2 or more votes.

[Matt]

Considering the other deadlines, I recommend keeping the deadline for this list as it stands. Some of you could use a lesson in delayed gratification, anyway.

[Highway 61]

39 Once Upon a Time in Mexico

Did you really mean to say Mexico there?

[Robotron]

I would consider Straw Dogs to be primarily British too, even though it is credited to to "UK/USA."

Why? It's produced by an American studio, directed by an American, and starring one as well.

[Jeff]

I would consider Straw Dogs to be primarily British too, even though it is credited to to "UK/USA."

Why? It's produced by an American studio, directed by an American, and starring one as well.

You're correct on all those counts and your reasoning certainly makes perfect sense. I don't have any particular logic or rationale behind my thoughts other than that the film has a very strong sense of place, the rest of the cast is British, and the film just feels so English to me. Obviously, we're each going to have to make lots of subjective judgment calls on what we will and will not include. I'm sure that voters on the actual AFI poll felt that way about The Third Man this time around (it was on their ballot again this year) leading to enough people hesitating to vote for it and it being excluded from the list.

[Lemmy Caution]

In addition, there's a Shorts List scheduled for August 31, 2007 and a 1960s List scheduled for October 31, 2007.

So the end of September fits perfectly, unless there is some even-month rule I'm unaware of.

Seriously, this is a pretty easy list to compile. The hardest work for me will be to actually read the AFI list and exclude a few favorites.

[Person]

In regard to the whole "is it a UK or USA film?", I have always wondered how the AFI Top 100 could have Bridge on the River Kwai and Lawrence of Arabia in it. No one thinks of those films as being American films. You might as well have Zulu. Get you own fucking films!

[Person]

I have amended no. 49 to Lone Star (1996).

[Via_Chicago]

39 Once Upon a Time in Mexico

Did you really mean to say Mexico there?

Oh, you bet he did!

[souvenir]

So when will these be due? Can we come to a consensus? Personally, the sooner the better. I'd hope that most participants have already seen most of the eligible films they hold near and dear to their hearts enough to put them in the top 50. This list is being done as a response to the AFI redux from a couple of weeks ago so maybe it's better to do this while interest is high instead of putting the due date half a year away.

Also, I'd encourage people to post their lists either in this thread or a separate one. If people don't wish to read them, they don't have to. I anticipate the final list, but I'd also like to see if there are films on individual lists that I'd be interested in.

[Michael]

EDIT: my list removed; numerous errors were brought to my attention, such as Petulia which I thought was a US film but according to IMDB, it's a UK film. So I'm reworking the list.

[Cold Bishop]

Scorpio Rising
Eaux d'artifice

While it pains me to say it, I do believe these two are ineligible due to the rules of this list.

[life_boy]

1. Dumbo (Ben Sharpsteen, 1941)
2. McCabe & Mrs. Miller (Robert Altman, 1971)
3. JFK (Oliver Stone, 1991)
4. The Big Parade (King Vidor, 1925)
5. The Roaring Twenties (Raoul Walsh, 1939)
6. My Darling Clementine (John Ford, 1946)
7. Johnny Guitar (Nicholas Ray, 1954)
8. Shock Corridor (Samuel Fuller, 1963)
9. God's Country (Louis Malle, 1986)
10. The Conversation (Francis Ford Coppola, 1974)
11. The Crowd (King Vidor, 1928)
12. Stella Dallas (King Vidor, 1937)
13. Bigger Than Life (Nicholas Ray, 1956)
14. Casino (Martin Scorsese, 1995)
15. The Leopard Man (Jacques Tourneur, 1943)
16. Freaks (Tod Browning, 1932)
17. Monster Road (Brett Ingram, 2004)
18. Down By Law (Jim Jarmusch, 1986)
19. Pursued (Raoul Walsh, 1947)
20. Catch-22 (Mike Nichols, 1970)
21. Say Amen, Somebody (George T. Nierenberg, 1982)
22. 42nd Street (Lloyd Bacon, 1933)
23. Medium Cool (Haskell Wexler, 1969)
24. West of Zanzibar (Tod Browning, 1928)
25. The New World (Terrence Malick, 2005)
26. The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance (John Ford, 1962)
27. The Killing of a Chinese Bookie (John Cassavetes, 1976)
28. A Face in the Crowd (Elia Kazan, 1957)
29. Scarface (Howard Hawks, 1932)
30. Koyaanisqatsi (Godfrey Reggio, 1983)
31. For All Mankind (Al Reinert, 1989)
32. Rope (Alfred Hitchcock, 1948)
33. The Night of the Hunter (Charles Laughton, 1955)
34. Broken Blossoms (D.W. Griffith, 1919)
35. Written on the Wind (Douglas Sirk, 1956)
36. Days of Heaven (Terrence Malick, 1978)
37. Rosemary's Baby (Roman Polanski, 1968)
38. Cockfighter (Monte Hellman, 1974)
39. The Straight Story (David Lynch, 1999)
40. Meet Me in St. Louis (Vincente Minnelli, 1944)
41. Young Mr. Lincoln (John Ford, 1939)
42. The Day the Earth Stood Still (Robert Wise, 1950)
43. Ferris Bueller's Day Off (John Hughes, 1986)
44. Carnal Knowledge (Mike Nichols, 1971)
45. Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse (Rex Ingram, 1921)
46. The Asphalt Jungle (John Huston, 1950)
47. Short Cuts (Robert Altman, 1993)
48. The Day of the Locust (John Schlesinger, 1975)
49. Brute Force (Jules Dassin, 1947)
50. The Sadist (James Landis, 1963)

[Michael]

Scorpio Rising
Eaux d'artifice

While it pains me to say it, I do believe these two are ineligible due to the rules of this list.

Because they are not feature-length? Ridiculous rule. But thanks, Cold Bishop. My list is now fixed.