Harold Lloyd on DVD

[oldsheperd]

Got my set Saturday. A definite must but for those into silent clowns. Safety Last looks beautiful.

[denti alligator]

And to think Safety Last secured the no. 46 spot on the Criterion Forum's best films of the Silent Era list even before this set (or any DVD of the film) was available! Wonder where it will rank the next time around. I for one love this film. It's the scariest movie I've ever seen!

Can't wait to get this set and to discover more Lloyd.

[FilmFanSea]

John Sinnott at DVD Talk (who writes an occasional column on silent film there) has posted a more in-depth review of the set here. After giving the set perfect scores on DVD Talk's rating scale, he concludes,

Not only are these films very good, but they are restored and look absolutely beautiful. These look like they were shot last year rather than 80 years ago. Added to that are the newly composed scores that fit the films perfectly, and the copious bonus material which really makes this an outstanding set. If I could only make one DVD purchase this year, I'd pick up this set. This set of films easily belongs in the DVD Talk Collector Series.

However, Mark Zimmer of Digitally OBSESSED (his review is forthcoming) has posted the following criticism at HTF:

On the down side, Safety Last! appears to be incorrectly flagged for progressive playback, resulting in significant combing throughout. The other films on disc 1 don't have this defect, however. Tragically someone at New Line just forgot to flip a switch on the most well-known film in the set.

[denti alligator]

On the down side, Safety Last! appears to be incorrectly flagged for progressive playback, resulting in significant combing throughout. The other films on disc 1 don't have this defect, however. Tragically someone at New Line just forgot to flip a switch on the most well-known film in the set.

Shit. This would be a real bummer. Would New Line goes so far as to re-do this if enough people complained? Let's hope either a) that this is not as bad as it sounds or b) that New Line is aware of it and will recall and/or provide replacement of this disc.

[unclehulot]

On the down side, Safety Last! appears to be incorrectly flagged for progressive playback, resulting in significant combing throughout. The other films on disc 1 don't have this defect, however. Tragically someone at New Line just forgot to flip a switch on the most well-known film in the set.

Shit. This would be a real bummer. Would New Line goes so far as to re-do this if enough people complained? Let's hope either a) that this is not as bad as it sounds or b) that New Line is aware of it and will recall and/or provide replacement of this disc.

For crying out loud! Doesn't anyone proof these things!

Anyhow, I guess I'll be checking at midnight to see if it's gone off pre-order status at DDD.....gotta get that discount.

[zedz]

And to think Safety Last secured the no. 46 spot on the Criterion Forum's best films of the Silent Era list even before this set (or any DVD of the film) was available! Wonder where it will rank the next time around. I for one love this film. It's the scariest movie I've ever seen!

Can't wait to get this set and to discover more Lloyd.

If you like Safety Last, then the first film you should check out is the short Never Weaken, which is like Safety Last squared. Talk about scary! At one point, Lloyd is blindfolded, sitting on a chair suspended on the end of a girder swinging high above the traffic. Then he has to descend a skyscraper in the process of being constructed. Extreme physical comedy: you can hardly believe your eyes!

[Brian Oblivious]

And to think Safety Last secured the no. 46 spot on the Criterion Forum's best films of the Silent Era list even before this set (or any DVD of the film) was available! Wonder where it will rank the next time around.

I'm hoping that this set helps people realize that, as good as Safety Last is, there are several Lloyd films that rank with or above it in his filmography. My own personal favorite is the Kid Brother, and Girl Shy, the Freshman and For Heaven's Sake are up there too.

[Michael Kerpan]

Favorites (prior to getting the new box set) -- Girly Shy and the sublimely silly Why Worry.

[htdm]

However, Mark Zimmer of Digitally OBSESSED (his review is forthcoming) has posted the following criticism at HTF:

On the down side, Safety Last! appears to be incorrectly flagged for progressive playback, resulting in significant combing throughout. The other films on disc 1 don't have this defect, however. Tragically someone at New Line just forgot to flip a switch on the most well-known film in the set.

In his actual review of the HL set at Digitally OBSESSED Zimmer writes that two films were adversely affected: Safefy Last! and Why Worry?

Unfortunately, New Line dropped the ball at the goal line, apparently failing to flag Safety Last! and Why Worry? correctly for progressive playback on flag-reading DVD players. Whatever the cause, the result is serious combing throughout that may annoy some people and not be noticed at all by others. All the rest of the films appear to be fine, however.

Let's hope that New Line will step up to the plate and reissue them.

[denti alligator]

What Gary at dvdbeaver has to say:

Some may have had excessively high expectations for the quality of this release. Harold Lloyd owned his own films and hence they are in very good condition considering their age. The transfers are not exceptional and due to frame rates (I assume) combing can be seen in many of the early films - unfortunately these compromise the vast majority of the collection. Technically there is a way to match up the frame rates which I was informed through BFI last year - it involves duplicating every 6th frame or something akin to that. It doesn't appear that a lot of work was done to these films - which can be a positive - I see no digital manipulations. To be sure - they are not perfect, but it is our guess that they will not look any better, anytime soon. I am so thankful to finally own these delightful films on DVD. And before I forget - the scores ! - the audio is WONDERFUL!

So I guess this isn't a case of not flipping the "progressive"-mode switch? And note that Gary says the combing is noticeable in "many of the early films."

[Michael Kerpan]

Just got our copy of the set. "Why Worry" has a scene we've never seen before. "Girl Shy" crashes in the middle of its second scene -- and one has to restart the film, skip to the following chapter, then back up to right after the crash point (thus skipping over the fatal second). I wonder whether this is just a flaw on our copy (and what does one do about a thing like this).

Will report more when I survey more.

[Michael Kerpan]

One of the discs of the new Harold Lloyd box set (the one with my favorite film "Girl Shy") is defective. I can't find any contact information for customer support on New Line's website.

I hate the idea of sending the whole set back to Amazon, rather than getting the disc replaced.

Anyone have any ideas?

[FilmFanSea]

From DVD Talk:

New Line Home Video
1-310-967-6670

[Michael Kerpan]

Thanks

I'll try this out.

[HerrSchreck]

Thanks

I'll try this out.

Keep us up to date on the resolution to this... whether or not this is a product-wide defect or is it just a random flaw in yours.

[Michael Kerpan]

Keep us up to date on the resolution to this... whether or not this is a product-wide defect or is it just a random flaw in yours.

I havven't seen any other mention of HL DVD set problems online yet.

[Arn777]

Michael, what is the problem you are having with this disk? i have just received the box, and plan to check it tonight.

[Michael Kerpan]

So far, the only problem I've found is "Girl shy". this essentially crashes the DVD player a multiple spots throughout the film. No obvious signs of gunk or damage on the DVD's surface.

[Arn777]

It could well be a dvd player compatibility problem. The disc wouldn't play at all on my Pioneer player, but seems to play fine on my Denon.

[Michael Kerpan]

It could well be a dvd player compatibility problem. The disc wouldn't play at all on my Pioneer player, but seems to play fine on my Denon.

I'll try it on our computer DVD drive.

I haven't had any luck with the phone number yet.

[Forgotten Goldfish]

The following table compares the contents of the various Harold Lloyd DVD anthologies now available. I expect this comparison is already available somewhere on the forum; if so, please delete the present post. If not, corrections, additions, and updates would be welcome!

The list includes all Lloyd's films from 1920 onwards, plus those earlier films that have appeared on DVD. (It does not include interviews, films in which Lloyd made guest appearances, clips in compilations and documentaries, etc.)

All the listed films are 5 reels or longer unless specified.

Abbreviations:

K1, K2 = The Harold Lloyd Collection, volumes [1, not explicitly numbered] & 2 (Kino, Region 1)

MK9, MK10 = Harold Lloyd, 9 Films 1918-1921 & 10 Films 1919-1921 (MK2, Region 2)

NL1, NL2, NL3 = The Harold Lloyd Comedy Collection, volumes 1, 2, & 3 (New Line, Region 1)

O = Harold Lloyd: The Definitive Collection (Optimum, Region 2)

P = Smiles and Spectacles: A Harold Lloyd Treasury (Passport, Region 1)

SC1 = Harold Lloyd, volume 1 (Studio Canal, Region 2)

At this stage, I've listed DVDs from other sources only when they include Lloyd films not available in the above compilations. But I'd be happy to add references to anything else recommended by forum members.

SILENTS:
Luke's Movie Muddle (1 reel, 1916) American Slapstick (Image/All Day, Region 1)
Move On (1 reel, 1917) The Woman He Scorned (Grapevine, Region 1, DVD-R)
The Non-Stop Kid (1 reel, 1918) K2, MK10, P
Two-Gun Gussie (1 reel, 1918) K2, MK10, P
The City Slicker (1 reel, 1918) K2, MK10, P
Are Crooks Dishonest? (1 reel, 1918) K1, MK9, P
Ask Father (1 reel, 1919) NL1, O, P
A Sammy in Siberia (1 reel, 1919) P
Ring Up the Curtain (1 reel, 1919) K2, MK10
Billy Blazes, Esq. (1 reel, 1919) NL2, O, P, SC1
Just Neighbors (1 reel, 1919) K1, MK9, P
Pay Your Dues (1 reel, 1919) American Slapstick (Image/All Day, Region 1)
Bumping Into Broadway (2 reels, 1919) K1, MK9, NL2, O, P, SC1
Captain Kidd's Kids (2 reels, 1919) K2, MK10, P
From Hand to Mouth (2 reels, 1919) K2, MK10, NL1, O, P
His Royal Slyness (2 reels, 1920) K1, MK9, P
Haunted Spooks (2 reels, 1920) NL3, O, SC1
An Eastern Westerner (2 reels, 1920) K1, MK9, NL1, O, P
High and Dizzy (2 reels, 1920) K2, MK10, NL2, O, P
Get Out and Get Under (2 reels, 1920) MK10, NL3, O
Number, Please? (2 reels, 1920) MK9, NL3, O, P
Now or Never (3 reels, 1921) K2, MK10, NL2, O, P
Among Those Present (3 reels, 1921) K2, MK10, NL3, O, P
I Do (3 reels, 1921) MK9, NL3, O
Never Weaken (3 reels, 1921) K2, MK9, NL3, O
A Sailor-Made Man (4 reels, 1921) NL3, O, SC1
Grandma's Boy (1922) K1, MK9, NL2, O, P
Dr. Jack (1922) NL2, O, SC1
Safety Last! (1923) NL1, O
Why Worry? (1923) NL1, O, SC1
Girl Shy (1924) NL1, O
Hot Water (1924)NL3, O
The Freshman (1925) NL2, O, SC1
For Heaven's Sake (1926)NL3, O
The Kid Brother (1927) NL2, O
Speedy (1928) NL3, O, SC1
Welcome Danger (silent, 1929)

TALKIES
Welcome Danger (talkie, 1929) O
Feet First (1930) NL2, O
Movie Crazy (1932) NL3, O, SC1
The Cat's-Paw (1934) NL1, O, SC1
The Milky Way (1936) NL1, O, P
Professor Beware (1938)
The Sin of Harold Diddlebock (1947) P

The New Line, Studio Canal, and Optimum sets are transferred from masters supplied by the Lloyd Trust. I've seen no formal comparisons between the three companies' transfers. New Line is not a company with any expertise in this field, and its transfers suffer from various problems noted here. Informal comments from UK friends suggest that Optimum's transfers may not be ideal either, but I don't know the details. At this stage, the Optimum set is the fullest (it contains all the films in the NL boxes, plus the talkie version of Welcome Danger).

The MK2 and Kino sets are transferred from masters prepared by Lobster. (Generally the Lloyd Trust seems to own the better masters, but not always -- in a few cases, Lobster's prints are less cropped.) Presumably the MK2 transfers would be superior to Kino's non-progressive PAL-to-NTSC products.

I've seen no proper reviews of the Passport set. Judging from informal comments on the internet, its source material is well below the standard of the Lloyd Trust's or Lobster's, although some of its purchasers seem to find it quite watchable.

As far as I know, all available DVD transfers of The Sin of Harold Diddlebock derive from low-grade 16mm reduction positives. I've bought three (very cheaply); all were inferior (especially in audio terms) to the best VHS tapes.

Disclaimer:
Like Riefenstahl, Lloyd is a delicate subject. I hope that no user of this forum will construe the preparation of this post as an act either supporting or condoning any fascist principle, or as implying that such principles are of no serious importance and may simply be ignored when the films are viewed.

[Michael Kerpan]

Like Riefenstahl, Lloyd is a delicate subject. I hope that no user of this forum will construe the preparation of this post as an act either supporting or condoning any fascist principle

Not sure why one would equate Lloyd with Riefenstahl.

[thethirdman]

Like Riefenstahl, Lloyd is a delicate subject. I hope that no user of this forum will construe the preparation of this post as an act either supporting or condoning any fascist principle

Not sure why one would equate Lloyd with Riefenstahl.

The poster is most likely referring to The Cat's-Paw (1934).

[tryavna]

Like Riefenstahl, Lloyd is a delicate subject. I hope that no user of this forum will construe the preparation of this post as an act either supporting or condoning any fascist principle

Not sure why one would equate Lloyd with Riefenstahl.

The poster is most likely referring to The Cat's-Paw (1934).

Because it glorifies fascism? (The climax is a little disturbing if you think about it, but you don't find anything remotely similar in the rest of Lloyd's body of work.)

Or because, like many other movies from the 1930s, it happens to contain naive and occasionally unpleasant racial stereotypes?

[Forgotten Goldfish]

Like Riefenstahl, Lloyd is a delicate subject. I hope that no user of this forum will construe the preparation of this post as an act either supporting or condoning any fascist principle

Not sure why one would equate Lloyd with Riefenstahl.

I fully agree. I can't imagine why anyone would equate Lloyd with Riefenstahl. I myself certainly don't equate them. My post merely noted one point of similarity between them: Like Riefenstahl, Lloyd is a delicate subject.

If you say "Like an apple, a banana is a fruit", you're not equating them. Nor are you asserting that they are the same color, the same shape, the same size, etc., etc. You're simply asserting that they're similar (similar, not identical) in the one point specified.

I wrote the sentences in question to show that I meant my post as an act of pure discography, not as a covert political statement. Yet all the replies have focussed, not on Lloyd's discography, but on Lloyd's politics. This, in my view, amply demonstrates the truth of my original observation. Lloyd is indeed a delicate subject!

Afterthought:

If pressed as to my own personal views about Lloyd's alleged "fascism" (the very subject I was trying to avoid!), I'd say that the whole topic is too complex to be discussed briefly, for the following reasons:

1. "Fascism" has been used in so many senses that it now has hardly any definable sense at all. It's little more than a term of abuse. It's never what anyone says that they themselves believe -- it's always what they say that their opponents believe.

2. There's a tendency to write as if all Lloyd's films were politically equivalent -- which they're not, as the previous posters rightly observe. The Cat's Paw (to take the example already cited) is politically very different from The Milky Way (probably because the latter was directed by Leo McCarey, whose other films of the period are strikingly anti-fascist: Duck Soup, Ruggles of Red Gap, etc.)

3. I think, too, that seemingly "fascist" material in a 1923 movie (e.g. Why Worry?) may have very different implications from such material in a 1934 film (e.g. The Cat's Paw). In 1923, apparent "fascism" could be nothing worse than political naivety. But by 1934 the whole world was politically sensitive -- far more so than we are nowadays (look at newspaper editorials of the period). For a filmmaker to suggest even in jest, at such a time, that when the ignorant masses don't know what's good for them, it may be forcibly imposed on them by those who do know -- well, even today it still raises the eyebrows. We may not agree with the politics, but we must surely admire the audacity!

4. Even when Lloyd is at his most politically reprehensible, his politics may not be altogether reprehensible. We may not agree that there are times when democracy can be set aside -- but can't we acknowledge that democracy does have certain weaknesses, and that The Cat's Paw (like, say, Ibsen's Enemy of the People) astutely puts its paw on some of them?

5. Finally, our feelings on the subject tend to be complicated by a natural reluctance to accept than an artist whom we admire could ever have advocated anything of which we disapprove.