Blu-ray, in General

[jedgeco]

They are only exclusively selling blu-ray standalone players, and they may still sell Toshiba's stand-alone HD-DVD players on their website.

The BDA's PR flack says one thing, HD DVD's PR flack says something else. Target, meanwhile "would not say why it decided to sell only Blu-ray players in stores," but the AP has been lazy before.

But, since the BDA strategy is clearly to create the perception of victory in the media with lots of "look who's backing BD now" stories, I'd say they're getting exactly what they wanted.

[patrick]

My boss came back from the Home Media Convention somewhat convinced that somehow HD-DVD will win because of the combination of "HD" and "DVD" in the name since people will naturally want an HD-DVD player to go with their HDTV and people already trust the notion of a DVD. While it does make sense on a very basic level, I also kind of question what the fuck the HD-DVD camp is thinking if that was the main gist of their presentation to retailers. It seems like they're dancing around the main issues in favor of arguing semantics and showing how you can tell everyone on the internet what your favorite scenes in 300 were.

That said, we got the 300 HD-DVD in last Friday and it's pretty killer (too bad the movie was so boring I wasn't even mildly offended at all the homophobia and xenophobia). Discs like this could conceivably be the BluRay killers that HD needs, but I doubt most studios are going to put this much effort into their HD product (along with the fact that a day-and-date multiformat release of 300 is probably not going to do anything to switch people in either camp over, even if the HD disc has tons more in the special features department).

[pro-bassoonist]

Discs like this could conceivably be the BluRay killers that HD needs, but I doubt most studios are going to put this much effort into their HD product (along with the fact that a day-and-date multiformat release of 300 is probably not going to do anything to switch people in either camp over, even if the HD disc has tons more in the special features department).

It is very hard to conceive indeed....

First of all sound/pic wise it appears that both format releases are identical with the HD version offering only two extra features more at this point. I don't know where you get your info from but "tons" just does not fit the bill. It suggests more than what it is on the HD disc. This being said, it has already been stated that come Q4 Warner will be releasing a second release of the film on BR with all the hoopla currently found on the HD. (to coincide with BR's 1.1 launch).

An extra feature or two, regardless to what format release they belong, will not force the user to switch/adopt one of the two. Content will! And so far BR clearly has me convinced where the variety is.

Pro-B

[The Invunche]

I don't know where you get your info from....

I suspect many HD DVD fans hear "voices".

[jedgeco]

My boss came back from the Home Media Convention somewhat convinced that somehow HD-DVD will win because of the combination of "HD" and "DVD" in the name since people will naturally want an HD-DVD player to go with their HDTV ....

Funny, I always assumed that HD DVD would have a leg up because people understand what HD is and know what DVD is, but you have to explain what BD is.

I don't know where you get your info from but "tons" just does not fit the bill. It suggests more than what it is on the HD disc..

I think the format war is actually discouraging the format-neutral publishers from doing anything interesting with the unique capabilities of either format; why waste time and effort on something that 30-70% of your audience can't use? Eg, most Blu-rays aren't using the extra potential disc capacity because the studios want to be able to accommodate the HD version as well. The rumored "300" BD re-issue further reinforces my suspicions: WB created the HD DVD exclusive features knowing it could port them over to BD in a few months.

[patrick]

I don't know where you get your info from but "tons" just does not fit the bill. It suggests more than what it is on the HD disc

I was wrong, for some reason I was under the impression that the BR version would be barebones but saw my mistake this morning when I actually saw a Blu Ray copy of 300.

So is Blu Ray going to be able to do everything HD can do soon? I was under the impression that it lacked something that let it do the picture-in-picture stuff that HD can do. Still, I doubt anyone is buying HD just because it can utilize that feature.

[Luke M]

Why aren't there more classic films or foreign films on this two formats? The only classic title that I'm interested in is Casablanca.

It seems like these formats should be catering to film fans and not joe six pack like they seem to be doing.

[Antoine Doinel]

Right now HD and BD are looking to bring on as many new converts (ie. joe six pack general public) as possible, hence lots of mainstream titles. It won't be until one (or both or none) of the formats catch on that the studios will invest the time and money in upgrading and going into the vaults. Classic and foreign films will always be a niche market and there just isn't enough business there to hinge a format war on.

The same thing happened with DVD when it first came around as well.

[pointless]

So is Blu Ray going to be able to do everything HD can do soon? I was under the impression that it lacked something that let it do the picture-in-picture stuff that HD can do. Still, I doubt anyone is buying HD just because it can utilize that feature.

The new Blu-Ray spec that supports the new PiP and other features will be out in the fall, yes.

However, my understanding is that almost none of the current Blu-Ray players can support the spec and cannot be upgraded with firmware to do so. The existing players will play the movie just fine, but no advanced interactive features will be possible.

Why aren't there more classic films or foreign films on this two formats? The only classic title that I'm interested in is Casablanca.

It seems like these formats should be catering to film fans and not joe six pack like they seem to be doing.

There aren't too many, no, but then again there aren't too many hi-def releases period. I follow HD DVD mostly and I have:

Classics:

Casablanca
Mutiny on the Bounty
Adventures of Robin Hood
The Searchers
The Getaway
Grand Prix
Battle of the Bulge
Rio Bravo
The Wild Bunch (on preorder)

No definite dates, but The Wizard of Oz, The Big Sleep, The Maltese Falcon, Treasure of Sierra Madre, Quo Vadis, Ben-Hur, Son of Paleface, The Lemon Drop Kid, Singin' in the Rain, Bonnie and Clyde have all been strongly hinted at.

Foreign HD DVDs available or announced include:

Brotherhood of the Wolf
The City of Lost Children
Volver (from a Spanish distributor)
The Triplets of Belleville
Ran
Le Coeur des hommes (there are quite a few French films announced)
Pan's Labyrinth
District B13

There is a smattering of anime out and quite a lot announced.

Somewhere I read that Manon of the Spring/Jean de Florette will be out on HD DVD. I'm really excited about that one.

[pro-bassoonist]

Right now HD and BD are looking to bring on as many new converts (ie. joe six pack general public) as possible, hence lots of mainstream titles.

This isn't quite the case. Both in the UK and France non-majors have actively taken steps towards releasing foreign/arthhouse films. In fact, it took SDVD substantially longer period of time to approach the "new format, then DVD, with any such titles. Below is a list of titles, arthouse-foreign cinema, which I have compiled for DVDTALK:

Foreign Cinema in BLU

Currently Available:
Volver (Sony-US)
Curse of the Golden Flower (Sony-US)
District 13 (Magnolia Home Ent.-US)
House of Flying Daggers (Sony-US)
Warriors of Heaven and Earth (Sony-US)
The Host (Magnolia Home Ent.-US)
Kung-Fu Hustle (Sony-US)
The Queen (Miramax)
OSS 117, Le Caire nid d'espions (Gaumont-France)-English friendly!
The Chorus (Pathe-France)*
Infernal Affairs (Panorama-HK)

August
The Lives of Others (Sony-US) 8/21
Pars Vite et reviens tard- (Gaumont-France) 8/22*
The Science of Sleep – (Columbia-France) 8/22*
Black Book (Tartan-UK) 8/27

September
Days of Glory (Metrodome-UK) 9/17
Old Boy (Tartan-UK) 9/24
The Seventh Seal (Tartan-UK) 9/24
Black Book (Sony-US) 9/25
Tekkon Kinkreet (Sony-US/UK) 9/25
Renaissance (Pathe-France)*

October
Room With a View (BBC-US) 10/2
Hero-Director's Cut (Highlight-Germany)*
OldBoy (Tartan-US) 10/23
Ne le dis a persone (Europa Corporation-France) 10/24*
The 400 Blows (MK2-France) 10/24*

November
Pan's Labyrinth (Optimum-UK) 11/12

Foreign Animation
Paprika (Gaumont-France)-English friendly
Brave Story (Warner-Japan)
Ghost in the Shell: Innocence (Buena Vista-Japan)-English friendly
Iblard Jikan (Buena Vista-Japan)
Oneasmith Wing (Bandai-Japan)
Patlabor (Bandai) - Japan
Project Papo (Sony Japan)
Rikidozan (Sony-Japan)
Flag: Directors Edition (Aniplex-Japan)

August
Ghost in the Shell (Bandai-Japan) in August
Patlabor 2 (Bandai-Japan) August
Steamboy (Bandai-Japan) August

September
Wings of Honneamise (Bandai-US)
Avalon (Bandai-Japan)
Jin-Roh (Bandai-Japan)

*Indicates lack of English-subtitles.

....so, as you could see quite a bit is coming up, especially if you are willing to go the non-region route. Furthermore, I do believe that we are yet to see a few surprises before the end of the year (the rumored BR/HD version of Caligula for example...).

Finally, while one of the camps keeps churning out statements such as "the war isn't leading us anywhere, there will be no resolution any time soon, etc"...plenty of distribs are starting to release very impressive product.

Time will tell...but I certainly think that the one of the formats is here to stay. And it won't be a niche format either!

Ciao,
Pro-B

[Antoine Doinel]

Well, color me corrected! Good to see they are starting to dip into those wells right now.

Another question for the people in this debate: Now that the Kubrick set has been announced in arriving in BD and HD, I'm going to be hunting for a player. Since the format war isn't decided (please spare the arguments about how one side will inevitably win against the other for now) I will be looking for a dual HD/BD player. Do these exist yet? Will they be/Are they notably higher priced? Any brands I should be looking at?

[jedgeco]

I'm going to be hunting for a player. Since the format war isn't decided (please spare the arguments about how one side will inevitably win against the other for now) I will be looking for a dual HD/BD player. Do these exist yet? Will they be/Are they notably higher priced? Any brands I should be looking at?

From what I understand, the dual format players (~$1K) are more expensive than buying one of each ($499 + $199), and I think there are only 2 on the market. Also, the first player to street was somewhat crippled in that it could play HD DVD, but could not take advantage of any of its unique features (menus, etc.).

So unless having an extra piece of gear is a dealbreaker, dual format is probably not the way to go. I think Best Buy, though, is doing a 10-free disc promotion with the newest dual format player that is out.

[patrick]

I believe that the existing dual-format players play Blu Ray natively, but have to emulate HD-DVD somehow? I'm not sure about how that works, but I'm fairly certain that it's not like it has 2 different lasers inside.

[Cinesimilitude]

at this point ones best bet(if you dont already have one of the next gen gaming systems) is to buy the Toshiba HD-A2 (240 at amazon) and the Samsung BDP300 (480 at amazon) as opposed to the LG dual format player which costs about 1100$, and even then, it's HD-DVD support was added late, and is emulated. I have no idea what that means when it comes to quality, but when its cheaper to buy both...

[jedgeco]

I was looking forward to being able to pick up the new Blade Runner (with maybe a few SD extras) for the usual $25 Australian. Five disks raises the possibility of five times the price and I'm a little reluctant to spend $100 or more on a High-Def Blade Runner.

Amazon is selling the 5-disc "Collector's Edition," which is all 5 discs but without the briefcase, on both BD & HD for $28. Don't know what that translates to in AU$, but this is a steal -- half the price of the SD DVD 5-disc set (since you have to buy the briefcase to get the 5th disc on SD).

[pro-bassoonist]

Do these exist yet? Will they be/Are they notably higher priced? Any brands I should be looking at?

The two answers that were given to you above are indeed solid. I would not approach the LG as it is modified and performance-wise not as stellar as either of the two lowest-priced standalones from the two rivaling camps. There were some speculations that DENON will introduce a dual-format player but those were proven false and the company is BLU-exclusive. So, I would assume that having two separate players is the most intelligent solution for you (at this point).

After much research and waiting to see precisely what camp would pay more attention to the foreign/arthouse buying habits I have I went with SONY and their S1. Could not be any happier (including the fact that all BR European discs I've looked into are region-free).

Pro-B

[Antoine Doinel]

Wow! The pricing is certainly far too much for me to invest (right) now but I hope the forthcoming holiday season will see a dramatic slash in prices. So I guess I'll continue to play the waiting game and see players on both sides come down in price or wait for a manufacturer to release a solid, affordable, dual format player (though this seems unlikely in the foreseeable future).

[patrick]

...as opposed to the LG dual format player which costs about 1100$, and even then, it's HD-DVD support was added late, and is emulated. I have no idea what that means when it comes to quality, but when its cheaper to buy both...

This is purely anecdotal evidence given to me by the one person I've talked to who has one of those players, but he said that Blu Ray discs look fantastic and the HD-DVDs are almost indistinguishable from an upconverted DVD, which makes me think that some quality must be lost in the emulation process.

[barrym71]

Wow! The pricing is certainly far too much for me to invest (right) now but I hope the forthcoming holiday season will see a dramatic slash in prices.

There should be a new LG dual-player and a Samsung dual-player available by the holiday season. The new LG player should be fully compatible with HD DVD's interactive features. Both players will still cost more than the price of a standalone HD DVD player, but it's possible that holiday sales could put a dual-player closer to your price range (and less than the price of getting two separate players).

[Hai2u]

Does anybody know if the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player is any good? I already have an Xbox 360, and I was wondering whether I should just get the add-on or buy an HD-DVD player.

[lord_clyde]

Does anybody know if the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player is any good? I already have an Xbox 360, and I was wondering whether I should just get the add-on or buy an HD-DVD player.

Might as well get the add on if you've already taken the plunge with a 360.

[Cinesimilitude]

Does anybody know if the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player is any good? I already have an Xbox 360, and I was wondering whether I should just get the add-on or buy an HD-DVD player.

It's what I watch HD-DVD's on, and the 360 is quick to upgrade the firmware whenever things change. the 360 allows for 1080p if you're tv supports it, and has control of black level, which made a massive difference on my tv. It also loads HD-DVD's in less than 10 seconds, where as a first generation standalone player takes about 60 seconds, and a 2nd generation player takes 20-30 seconds to load one.

[pro-bassoonist]

Does anybody know if the Xbox 360 HD DVD Player is any good? I already have an Xbox 360, and I was wondering whether I should just get the add-on or buy an HD-DVD player.

There have been multiple reports regarding all sorts of issues with the 360. From freezing to blocking. The latest issue coming from 300. It has been a hot topic of discussion here.

I would think twice where I put my money!

Pro-B

[Gigi M.]

3rd Gen. HD DVD players

Expected Pricing and Expected Availability:
HD-A3 ($299.99, October 2007)
HD-A30 ($399.99, September 2007)
HD-A35 ($499.99, October 2007)

[patrick]

Microsoft's quality control must be bizarre, the majority of people I know with XBox 360s haven't had a single problem (including those who have the HD-DVD drive) but the people I've talked to who have had problematic machines have had every conceivable problem and their 360s have spent more time getting "fixed" by Microsoft than they have getting played. Too bad there's not a "lemon law" for electronics.