Superbad (Greg Mottola, 2007)

[The Elegant Dandy Fop]

Dazed was real to you because I'm guessing that's when you went through high school. this movie is my generations dazed and confused. Every scene, with the exception of the messed up cops, I could totally relate to something that happened in High School (2001-2004).

I loved it.

I'm 19, and I've only been 19 for the last 2 weeks so far. Superbad had moments that were really similar to reality, but it was still over the top. That's not a bad thing though, I did call this my favorite new film thus far this year.

[Mr Pixies]

I laughed till I cried. The only time I didn't laugh and everyone else did, was when

Spoiler

Seth got hit by the cops, I thought that was sad, but then ok.

Anyone think they mentioned Attack of the Clones because it will end up being the best Star Wars movie? It's my favorite.

You Don't Mess With The Zohan (about a Mossad agent who fakes his death so he can become a hairdresser Shocked ; starring Adam Sandler Shocked

Yay!

[domino harvey]

Dazed was real to you because I'm guessing that's when you went through high school. this movie is my generations dazed and confused.

I've been led to believe that Degrassi the Next Generation was already filling this position

[Via_Chicago]

Hm. I laughed harder than I have in a long time. The audience didn't seem to get the "morning after" sequence, sadly, which was one of the funniest (and poignant, too). Funny I didn't laugh once during Dazed and Confused.

I love Dazed, but it doesn't work as a comedy and I don't think it's meant to. It's really just a series of vignettes strung together by stoner-logic. That said, it does make me laugh.

[jorencain]

So, I'm trying to articulate my thoughts about what I didn't like. I previously said that I didn't laugh once, but I guess I chuckled at the cops' Yoda impression. I swear I have a sense of humor, but nothing else struck me as being funny in this movie at all.

And then when it's not funny, I try to find other things to enjoy, but.....The plot was excessively simple, and it dragged on and on, particularly with the cops. We get it: they're drunk. Also, our heroes' argument out in the street came totally out of left-field ("I've wasted the last 3 years with you just sitting around doing nothing"), and we were suddenly supposed to care about them. Even Clerks 2 (which did make me laugh) comes to mind as a movie that was able to pull off a similar relationship between the 2 main characters, but here it just doesn't work.

And maybe that IS how people really talk, but a lot of swearing isn't funny in and of itself, and that just covered up the fact that all they were saying was: I'm a horny teenager that wants to get laid.

[Michael]

Dazed and Confused cracks me up. Do you spit or swallow? Just about every scene with Darla (Parker Posey). Now fry like bacon, you little freshman piggies. Fry! Or what about that keg being delivered at the parents house scene? Perfect teen comedy all the way. So is Meatballs.

[denti alligator]

Anyone think they mentioned Attack of the Clones because it will end up being the best Star Wars movie?

Just the opposite.

[macaca]

jorencain, please name 3 funny movies.

[Mr Pixies]

Also, our heroes' argument out in the street came totally out of left-field ("I've wasted the last 3 years with you just sitting around doing nothing"), and we were suddenly supposed to care about them. Even Clerks 2 (which did make me laugh) comes to mind as a movie that was able to pull off a similar relationship between the 2 main characters, but here it just doesn't work.

I thought I got it, later on you find out he already knew about him rooming with McLovin (lol), he just had it at that moment and went off on him.

And maybe that IS how people really talk, but a lot of swearing isn't funny in and of itself, and that just covered up the fact that all they were saying was: I'm a horny teenager that wants to get laid.

How it was delivered is what made me laugh. And "I'm a horny teenager that wants to get laid" probably is an exact quote from one of the kids.

Anyone think they mentioned Attack of the Clones because it will end up being the best Star Wars movie?

Just the opposite.

No way, at least to the new ones, it's the best.

[jorencain]

jorencain, please name 3 funny movies.

Annie Hall
Big Lebowski
This Is Spinal Tap

[denti alligator]

jorencain, please name 3 funny movies.

Annie Hall
Big Lebowski
This Is Spinal Tap

Three if the funniest movies! We have similar tastes, I guess, but part ways with this one.

Re: Attack of the Clones. The joke is only funny because that movie is so bad. Had he said "you know, Yoda, from The Empire Strikes Back," it would have been redundant. We know who Yoda is.

[rs98762001]

Superbad is pretty funny, but it can't hold a candle to Dazed And Confused or (as the filmmakers seem so intent on bringing it up in every interview) American Graffiti. It's overlong and the stoner cop subplot got old quickly. MVP was undoubtedly Michael Cera. Hopefully some real filmmakers will be utilizing his wonderful comic skill and timing soon.

[Michael]

Annie Hall
Big Lebowski
This Is Spinal Tap

No Waiting for Guffman ?!? No Young Frankenstein?!? No Silent Movie?!?

[Antoine Doinel]

Saw it this afternoon and had a great time. While it's not as accomplished as Dazed & Confused, it perfectly captures the complete awkwardness and horniness of virginal boys. I wish like 40 Year Old Virgin and Knocked Up it had some well written female counterparts as well, but as the film is more about Seth and Evan's relationship, it isn't a big deal.

The comedy is really quite inspired at times, particularly the entire home-economics classroom sequence (and the beautiful rant) and it was actually fantastic to watch the awkward Fogel become a supremely confident McLovin over the course of one night.

It's not a classic, but it's a lot of fun.

[jorencain]

Annie Hall
Big Lebowski
This Is Spinal Tap

No Waiting for Guffman ?!? No Young Frankenstein?!? No Silent Movie?!?

He only asked for 3.

Alright, that's it for me in this thread. I'm not trying to rain on anyone's parade; it just wasn't the movie for me.

[Michael]

My apologies, jorencain. I was being silly after drinking god knows how many glasses of caipirinha at a brunch yesterday. What a buzz that was. Embarrassed about lashing out some lame questions.

[Barmy]

Am I the only one hatin' on McLovin?

[lord_clyde]

Am I the only one hatin' on McLovin?

But. . . it's like a sexy hamburger!

[Andre Jurieu]

Am I the only one hatin' on McLovin?

You're probably not the only one, but you're probably one of the very few. Of course, I'm not sure how you would be surprised by this, considering how much enjoyment you usually get from being "the only one hatin' on" anything.

I really enjoyed Superbad, but I'm really surprised that this is being compared with Dazed and Confused. Yes, both movies focus on the high school experience, but even though they share subject matter, I wouldn't think they would be considered to be members of the same genre, and if they are, then they aren't in the same ballpark even if they are playing the same sport. You might as well compare these movies to Elephant. I actually think Elephant shares more in common with Dazed and Confused than Dazed does with Superbad. I'm also surprised that Dazed is being judged against a pure comedy. In my estimation Dazed is attempting to be a bit more than just a high school comedy or a stoner-movie. Superbad seems to understand that it's another standard entry into it's specified genre, expect that it accomplishes its goals by doing things exceptionally well and avoiding the typical ending while concentrating most of its energy on an entirely different relationship.

However, I really doubt that Superbad is a more recognizable depiction of high school than Dazed. I say that having graduated closer in time to Superbad's geeks than Dazed's stoners. There are aspects of Superbad that are easily recognizable and the conversations of Superbad do have a familiarity, but it's certainly a heightened reality. Meanwhile, Dazed is much more relaxed and casual, but also understands and depicts the reality of high school much more accurately (not perfectly), because almost nothing is depicted as the ideal or as completely wretched. In Superbad, every geek gets a girl at the end, which seems to be a fantasy more than reality and reassures it's audience that everything will be OK. Meanwhile, in Dazed some geeks stumble upon a pretty young thing who isn't exactly a knockout, while some get their ass beaten brutally for taking a stand against their tormentors. Thankfully they are saved by a few kind folks, but their humiliation lingers. That sounds more like the high school reality that I remember and witnessed quite often.

[rs98762001]

Fantastically put, Andre. You've nailed exactly why it's silly to compare a fluffy piece of male fantasy like Superbad to the dead-on accuracy and poignancy of Dazed or even Fast Times At Ridgmont High. Superbad isn't much more than a slightly smarter version of American Pie.

[Mr Sausage]

In Superbad, every geek gets a girl at the end, which seems to be a fantasy more than reality and reassures it's audience that everything will be OK.

What I liked, tho', was how Superbad showed both how hard and how easy it is to get laid. How hard, in that these "geeks" spend all their time talking about it and turning it into something mystical and unattainable, and making it just that; easy, because if you're at a party of drunk (or even sober) girls all you need to demonstrate is confidence, especially the confidence to actually get laid. The last part applies most to Fogel, who we would think a hopeless case, but whose time with the cops, drinking and holding guns and chasing people ect., as immature as it was, makes walking up to a hot girl and dancing with her a small deal by comparison. It's a sort of "it's really that simple" moment, and the movie showed some actual restraint in not over-emphasizing Fogel's decision (or his 'rewards').

Conversely, I love how Evan's first attempt at sex, rather than being movie-magic, is embarrassing, awkward, and ruined by exactly the thing that caused it to happen in the first place: alcohol.

Superbad, I agree, is a heightened reality, but it plays fair with its particular reality by ending with the possibility of further character growth based on the experiences of that one day rather than with total closure. Compare this to American Pie, which makes a more or less accurate note about the ridiculousness of obsessive sex-seeking, yet gives in to disingenuous fantasy at the end by having everyone magically get laid and, equally magically, not suffer from the sexual dysfunctions that come with your first time. Seth and Evan at Superbad's end have awoken to a heightened sense of normalcy for once in their geek lives; one of the characters at the end of American Pie wakes up to a golden beach-side sunset in the arms of his new lover.

Oh yeah, and I don't think I've ever laughed this hard at an extended dick joke.

[denti alligator]

I'm assuming I'm not alone in reading Evan as being gay. A friend of mine felt offended by this, especially since it seemed to him that homosexuality was being aligned with immaturity, and heterosexuality with maturity. I don't see that view.

Seth and Evan, however, get closer to another human being than they will with anyone else (maybe ever). That's pretty significant. Sex seems, in the big picture, to be not that important at all.

[exte]

In Superbad, every geek gets a girl at the end, which seems to be a fantasy more than reality and reassures it's audience that everything will be OK.

What I liked, tho', was how Superbad showed both how hard and how easy it is to get laid. How hard, in that these "geeks" spend all their time talking about it and turning it into something mystical and unattainable, and making it just that; easy, because if you're at a party of drunk (or even sober) girls all you need to demonstrate is confidence, especially the confidence to actually get laid. The last part applies most to Fogel, who we would think a hopeless case, but whose time with the cops, drinking and holding guns and chasing people ect., as immature as it was, makes walking up to a hot girl and dancing with her a small deal by comparison. It's a sort of "it's really that simple" moment, and the movie showed some actual restraint in not over-emphasizing Fogel's decision (or his 'rewards').

Conversely, I love how Evan's first attempt at sex, rather than being movie-magic, is embarrassing, awkward, and ruined by exactly the thing that caused it to happen in the first place: alcohol.

Superbad, I agree, is a heightened reality, but it plays fair with its particular reality by ending with the possibility of further character growth based on the experiences of that one day rather than with total closure. Compare this to American Pie, which makes a more or less accurate note about the ridiculousness of obsessive sex-seeking, yet gives in to disingenuous fantasy at the end by having everyone magically get laid and, equally magically, not suffer from the sexual dysfunctions that come with your first time. Seth and Evan at Superbad's end have awoken to a heightened sense of normalcy for once in their geek lives; one of the characters at the end of American Pie wakes up to a golden beach-side sunset in the arms of his new lover.

Oh yeah, and I don't think I've ever laughed this hard at an extended dick joke.

I'm with you on the issues. Great analysis. I hope to see this again soon.

[Jeff]

Richard Linklater discussion has been moved here.

[Andre Jurieu]

... a bunch of stuff that I totally agree with.

I don't think I can argue with anything you wrote Sausage, mostly because it explains why I do appreciate the film. Superbad succeeds by purposely avoiding the truly tiresome American Pie blue-print that seems to be automatically adopted by every single entry into the teen-sex comedy targeted towards the teen demographic. I appreciate that the filmmakers decide to take a somewhat more realistic perspective on the goal of getting laid and that they don't end the narrative with a perfect moment where their protagonists conquer their fears to claim their prize and bask in the glory of their accomplishment. Instead they just take one step closer to maturity by taking another step into dangerous ground (by trying to overcome their separation anxiety).

However, having said all that and acknowledged what the film does well, I still do believe its conclusion is more reassuring and positive than the outcomes that the characters have to deal with in Dazed and Confused, which are slightly more familiar. My original point wasn't to say that Superbad is pure fantasy, or that it isn't a more sober depiction of reality in comparison to something like American Pie, but to say its not as accurate a representation of reality as Dazed (and I'll fully admit that neither is a perfect depiction of reality). Simply put, even though I smiled at the idea that Fogel gains enough confidence and experience to brush of the image he has been carrying with him throughout high school, I couldn't help but think that it's an awful big leap of faith to believe he has enough game to go after the girl he targets. It's a bit far-fetched and extremely unlikely to think that this awkward kid is all of a sudden going to turn into a "pussy-magnet." Though Superbad keeps things simple and avoids the mistakes of its classmates, everything is just a little too easy for these geeks. However, amongst its generation of entries within the genre, it's far more mature and realistic than its predecessors.

I'm assuming I'm not alone in reading Evan as being gay.

Don't both characters (Evan and Seth) display gay tendencies throughout the film, especially given the nature of the relationship-dynamic they share with one another? In fact, this appears to be one of the rare instances where the filmmakers overtly imply a certain amount of homosexual-tinged tension exists between their two central characters and within their friendship. Evan is easily the more effeminate of the two characters and his reluctance to sleep with Becca kind of makes this implication more plausible, but how can we really ignore the obvious signal implied by the preoccupation/fascination that Seth shares with only 8% of the population? As well, Seth seems to be far more dependent upon the relationship between the two leads than Evan, which is plainly demonstrated by the expression on his face as the film concludes. I'm no expert on the subject of queer theory (and I'm sure I'll offend someone by attempting to perceive any sort of gay subtext within this film), so my application of the practice is probably way off anyway, but I guess Superbad comes off almost like a queer-tragedy in some sense considering the final outcome. I'm sure this is going to open a can of worms.