"Fuck you, I got your film for nothing, cumstain."

[robotjox]

Are you American by any chance?

No, I'm Danish - why?

[skuhn8]

Yeah, we've all come to the conclusion that Nick is kind of a dick when it comes to people stealing from his livelihood. Go figure.

[robotjox]

Yeah, we've all come to the conclusion that Nick is kind of a dick when it comes to people stealing from his livelihood. Go figure.

Yeah, well I don't think the people he insulted in this thread were the people who pirated - actually most of them sound like they are MoC customers, and putting bounties out on software pirates is just not the kind of behaviour I would expect from a classy firm like MoC - maybe from RIAA or the MPAA. But maybe they'll arrest a couple of pimple-faced teens and MoC sales will soar again...

[Luke M]

I can certainly understand why Nick is so upset. MoC isn't a huge studio like Criterion, and I use "huge" in jest. Even though I also feel that downloads for a title like Abhijan or Funeral Parade of Roses are going to be negligible at best.

[akaten]

I can certainly understand why Nick is so upset. MoC isn't a huge studio like Criterion, and I use "huge" in jest. Even though I also feel that downloads for a title like Abhijan or Funeral Parade of Roses are going to be negligible at best.

But presumably with these two not having sold as well as other MoC titles, those few downloads still have a significant detrimental impact on their success.

Anyways having just read through the thread (some really bizarre arguments suggesting the ends justifies the means) I thought peerpee was justified in his anger and disbelief in being insulted for pointing out the obvious. That is, the undeniable impact theft has on the ability of Master of Cinema to release more films, the very films file sharers are claiming to support. Whether or not he wishes to encourage people to help stop this occurring is entirely up to him, and of course withing his rights.

Heck he even took the time to clarify the issue of Region rights regarding sales of DVDs from one region to another, that consumers can decide which product to buy. This seemed to me to outline MoC desire to be judged solely on the quality of their product in a competitive market...all the more reason to support them with your funds. They deserve it! =D>

[125100]

I can certainly understand why Nick is so upset. MoC isn't a huge studio like Criterion, and I use "huge" in jest. Even though I also feel that downloads for a title like Abhijan or Funeral Parade of Roses are going to be negligible at best.

Actually, I'd say the opposite. Things like Metropolis and Nosferatu are important films and people are likely to buy the MoC releases because it's definitive and essential to a DVD collection. Also editions by people like Kino have already been out for a while so people aren't as likely to download these as they've already seen them before (whether that be legally or not)

Abhijan on the other hand, while undoubtedly very good, isn't renowned or particularly important in the history of cinema. It's films like this that people are likely to download because while they may want to see it out of curiosity they don't particularly want to own it or would just rather spend their money on other DVDs.

Saying that I must admit although I'm yet to see Abhijan if I do it'll probably be a copy I suspect my friend downloaded from the net and burnt to CD.

[MichaelB]

Saying that I must admit I'm yet to see Abhijan, although If I do it'll probably be a copy I suspect my friend downloaded from the net and burnt to CD.

And maybe this comment alone might explain to the likes of Robotjox just why Nick hasn't been in any mood to compromise. Why should he, when you're making it so clear that you place such little value on his work?

If you really can't resist the urge to rip people off, at the very least can you have the decency not to crow about it in public? Especially given that this thread is being read by the producer of the DVD in question?

[125100]

...about which your conscience appears to be so clear that you're happy to mention this in a forum that will be read by the producer of the DVD in question.

And maybe this comment alone might explain to the likes of Robotjox just why Nick hasn't been in any mood to compromise. Why should he, when you're making it clear that you place such little value on his work?

Ooh harsh, I was merely stating that I know my friend has a copy of Abhijan, and since Criterion don't look to be releasing it, I have thought about borrowing it. It was merely to illustrate my point that people shouldn't dismiss the downloads of poor selling DVDs as negligible.

I've never actually watched a pirated film before and I am quite an obsessive DVD collector but piracy doesn't bother me at all. I've just made the transition from writing scripts/storylines for video games to selling my first proper screenplay and I know that's going to get hammered by piracy but it's a fact of life.

Piracy isn't a good thing but it's there and there's nothing anyone can do about it. You either adapt to combat it (like the music/video games industries) or you just make allowances for it when looking at the viability of a project. I sympathize with MoC but if they go under or can't release certain things it's not just because of piracy.

[blindside8zao]

peerpee, could you please burn me a copy of the savage innocents? I can send you a check in the mail.

[bluesea]

I love MoC, and I have most of your releases, but the attitude and use of words brought forward by you, Nick, through this thread has really put some dents in my admiration. I'm not talking about your problems with file-sharing - I have my own feelings about that subject. But to offer your masterpieces as rewards for informing on people and your offensive way of addressing people who disagree with you comes across as really counter-productive and even hateful. I would never have thought this possible from such a well-respected company.

I will probably continue to buy MoC-releases, but I'm really sorry that they'll shine just a little less bright on my shelves

I think a lot of what you are saying is self evident, and therefore this thread really did not need to be revived. Its been 2 cents to death already.

[Luke M]

Heck he even took the time to clarify the issue of Region rights regarding sales of DVDs from one region to another, that consumers can decide which product to buy. This seemed to me to outline MoC desire to be judged solely on the quality of their product in a competitive market.

I was just thinking about this, if I download a copy of Pitfall or the Face of Another aren't I hurting Criterion and not MoC? What about Punishment Park or Sunrise?

[jt]

Jesus, can we let this thread die?
Unless the laws around piracy and copywrited material suddenly change, there's really nothing left to say on this topic is there?
Some people are always going to download films and come up with tired, self-serving arguments that they're not doing anyone any harm.

As Michael pointed out, if people really need to rip off MoC/ CC et all, could they try to avoid showing off about it, especially to the owner of the company they're screwing?

And for a newbie poster to introduce himself to the forum by resurrecting an embarrassing argument for the purpose of taking a pot-shot at one of our most respected members, seems to me like the most ill-thought-out first-post ever.

[Lino]

I tried to stay away from this thread as best as I could but I'm really in the mood to spill the beans today, so here it goes.

I once tried to trade my Complete Joao Cesar Monteiro boxset with Nick/peerpee but he said someone already gave him copies of all the movies in that box.

Make your own conclusions.

[MichaelB]

Make your own conclusions.

Well, I have a shelf full of Polish DVD-Rs, which to the untrained eye look like blatant pirate copies, what with their handwritten labels and the fact that one or two are clones of Polish DVD releases. Actually, come to think of it, I also have a fair number of DVD-Rs of MoC and Second Run releases.

But in every case they were given to me by the legitimate UK rightsholders for professional reasons - they wanted me to review/promote them.

And there's therefore every possibility that someone in Nick's position might have been given copies by another legitimate rightsholder with a view to trying to persuade him to add Monteiro to the MoC line-up - wouldn't you agree?

[Steven H]

Make your own conclusions.

My conclusion: this thread should be closed

[Tommaso]

Precisely.

[stroszeck]

Story of the Late Chrysantemums and other Ozu, Mizoguchi and Teshigahara and even Fellini's THE SWINDLE...movie names have cleverly been "altered" so as not to incur the wrath of youtube copyrighters

[Perkins Cobb]

And I hope the dirtbag gets shut down post-haste. I wish I had time to report the copyright violations myself.

[stroszeck]

Whoa....why so negative? This is so far the only way I know of to get instant access to these films and actually the quality is decent compared to even some foreign import DVDs. So I actually appreciate the effort some people take to get these films at least out there. Hopefully if more people watch them then it will garner attention to the holders of the copyright who will at least consider releasing these films in semi-decent form!

[knives]

Late Chrysanthemums is available in great condition from BFI. Hell some of these come with Criterion logos on the front. I wouldn't be surprised if they were all DVD sourced.

[ambrose]

Late Chrysanthemums is available in great condition from BFI. Hell some of these come with Criterion logos on the front. I wouldn't be surprised if they were all DVD sourced.

The Late Chrysanthemums that is available from the BFI on dvd is the Naruse Mikio classic! The Story of the Late Chrysanthemums (Mizoguchi) on that you-tube channel is of sub-vhs quality and is literally an insult to any cinephile!

[Perkins Cobb]

Whoa....why so negative? This is so far the only way I know of to get instant access to these films and actually the quality is decent compared to even some foreign import DVDs. So I actually appreciate the effort some people take to get these films at least out there. Hopefully if more people watch them then it will garner attention to the holders of the copyright who will at least consider releasing these films in semi-decent form!

Right. Exactly. Because most copyright holders closely monitor the pirated Youtube copies of their holdings, and use those statistics as a guide to releasing DVDs of their most-stolen titles. So that all the people who already watched them for nothing can buy a copy.

I mean, really?

[ambrose]

Whoa....why so negative? This is so far the only way I know of to get instant access to these films and actually the quality is decent compared to even some foreign import DVDs. So I actually appreciate the effort some people take to get these films at least out there. Hopefully if more people watch them then it will garner attention to the holders of the copyright who will at least consider releasing these films in semi-decent form!

Right. Exactly. Because most copyright holders closely monitor the pirated Youtube copies of their holdings, and use those statistics as a guide to releasing DVDs of their most-stolen titles. So that all the people who already watched them for nothing can buy a copy.

I mean, really?

You are quite right Perkins Cobb! Stroszeck is obviously trying to pass-off his libertarian attitude towards copyright theft as some form of paternalism.

[stroszeck]

I'm not saying its ok or legal or anything I'm just, as a true film fan, excited to at least have ANY kind of access to movies which have been long lost from my reach for ever. I neither condone theft or fraud but I get so excited in seeing some of these films posted it lifts my hopes for a proper re-issue/restoration at least. I mean there are SO many films that have never even made it onto VHS let alone dvd and probably won't just because the assholes that possess the rights think these films won't garner the proper attention of the movie watching audiences and therefore will not buy a video edition and therefore they will not turn a profit on those particular movies should they decide to go all out and do a restoration or anything of the sort. But again I absolutely do NOT condone illegal activity I just, in my "dream world", imagine that such actions might get the attention of someone somewhere who will realize that THERE IS A DEMAND for such small forgotten older films. Thats all.

[domino harvey]

The outrage is hard to understand? You linked to illegal copies of films released by Criterion on the Criterion message board. Things like that make rare online copies of otherwise unavailable films that much more at risk of going away