140 8½

[sevenarts]

I'm horrified and ashamed to admit this, but I don't get 8½ ... Any advice on trying to get into it?

What can I say? It's an amazing film, but if you're bored by it, that's so alien to my experience of the film that I can't even give much advice to you.

I would say you should DEFINITELY try watching it again though, and really stick with it. I make it a policy to ALWAYS finish a film, no matter how little I may like it at first. It's kind of silly to just give up. Would you ever look at just half a painting and then decide it sucks? I understand a film demands a bit more time commitment than a painting, but the concept still holds true. Oftentimes, a film that seems boring halfway through can develop and change in your mind as you sit with it a while longer and let its concepts and aesthetics affect you. And other times a film that you didn't think much of on first viewing can seem much better in retrospect and call for a second viewing.

But for starters, watch the film again, watch it from start to finish, and do so while thinking about what the film has to say about dreams, fantasy, the pull of past loves, the creative process, and the subconscious life. I can't guarantee you'll like it, but at least then you'll have given it a fair chance to work its magic on you, the way it has on me and so many others.

[tryavna]

I'm curious whether Magic has seen any other Fellini movies? If not, then perhaps it might be worth watching some of his earlier films (like La strada) in order to ease himself into Fellini's world and style. I can certainly understand how coming into 8½ cold might not be the best introduction to Fellini for some people.

Then again, there's no reason for anyone to expect everyone to like or even "get" all canonical directors. And I have to say that, while there's much I admire in Fellini, he's a master director like Godard whose full charm simply seems to escape me. I'm sure I'm probably missing something, but there are plenty of other major film artists to enjoy.

[Magic Hate Ball]

I'm curious whether Magic has seen any other Fellini movies?

I really enjoyed Amarcord, and would go out of my way to see it again.

Try watching Woody Allen's Stardust memories?

I really enjoyed this one, too.

I'll give 8½ another go today.

I just finished watching it about ten minutes ago...at first I wanted to kick myself for almost sending it back, but I realised that it is a tough movie if you're not in the mood, and I'd been trying to watch it in the wrong mood. Anyways, just finished watching it, and what a great ending...surely I'll understand it better after I read a few essays. Not on the top of my list, though...yet.

[SheriffAmbrose]

I just finished watching it about ten minutes ago...

Coincidentally I watched it again last night. I really like it (not a favorite though) and I agree that it is something I need to be in the mood for. That ending really is amazing, as is the beginning and most of what is in between. And really how cool is Marcello?

Oh and Napier, you get the gasface. Who cares if someone you don't know doesn't like film that you don't? It is, after all, only a movie.

Could it be argued that another way to get into this could be c.q.? I don't know if that movie gets any love here but it is an obvious homage and I think it is quite good.

[Magic Hate Ball]

I just finished watching it about ten minutes ago...

Coincidentally I watched it again last night. i really like it (not a favorite though) and I agree that it is something I need to be in the mood for. That ending really is amazing, as is the beginning and most of what is in between. And really how cool is Marcello?

The ending really is fantastic. I rewound it to watch it again, just for the music and the scene where everyone comes down the steps. And he is fucking awesome. I want his sunglasses.

[eez28]

I'm glad you gave it another chance. I was going to post earlier this afternoon that it definitely a movie you need to be in a mood for. Well, at least for me I do, but when you are in it it's just an amazing movie throughout. Whenever you get the chance hit up the commentaries like mentioned above, they really helped me understand and appreciate the movie so much more then probably anything I could have read.

[Magic Hate Ball]

I'm glad you gave it another chance. I was going to post earlier this afternoon that it definitely a movie you need to be in a mood for. Well, at least for me I do, but when you are in it it's just an amazing movie throughout. Whenever you get the chance hit up the commentaries like mentioned above, they really helped me understand and appreciate the movie so much more then probably anything I could have read.

There's a few movies that I can watch at any time and enjoy them (12 Angry Men, Amadeus, Cabaret, Citizen Kane, Grapes of Wrath, and North By Northwest, as examples), and 8½ isn't one of them. If I had Amarcord, it'd be on the list, though.

Also, I loved Marcello in Divorce, Italian Style.

[zedz]

I'm glad you gave it another chance. I was going to post earlier this afternoon that it definitely a movie you need to be in a mood for. Well, at least for me I do, but when you are in it it's just an amazing movie throughout. Whenever you get the chance hit up the commentaries like mentioned above, they really helped me understand and appreciate the movie so much more then probably anything I could have read.

There's a few movies that I can watch at any time and enjoy them (12 Angry Men, Amadeus, Cabaret, Citizen Kane, Grapes of Wrath, and North By Northwest, as examples), and 8½ isn't one of them. If I had Amarcord, it'd be on the list, though.

Despite what you may have read on this forum, you're not obliged to adore this film. I've seen it more times than I care to count, and my initial enthusiasm always drains away long before the end (though it sounds like it worked the opposite way for you - maybe if we combine our experiences we'll have the 'proper' response). I don't think any single film should be considered a litmus test for cinephilic taste.

[Macintosh]

^Exactly. Every time I see this film it seems to impress me less and less. I'm just not into fantasy dream sequences. I vitelloni is divine tho. Check that one out Hate Ball for more of a neo-realist Fellini.

I don't think any single film should be considered a litmus test for cinephilic taste.

Au Hasard Balthazar

[125100]

Despite what you may have read on this forum, you're not obliged to adore this film. I've seen it more times than I care to count, and my initial enthusiasm always drains away long before the end (though it sounds like it worked the opposite way for you - maybe if we combine our experiences we'll have the 'proper' response). I don't think any single film should be considered a litmus test for cinephilic taste.

While I agree with that in theory, if anyway one told me they didn't like The Apartment, Seven Samurai, and La Grande illusion, I'd be forced to gouge-out their eyeballs with shards of a DVD containing one of the Scary Movie sequels, or worse still I wouldn't shatter it and I'd make that person watch them all one after the other until the end of time...

Anyway, back to 8½. I can see why some don't rate it too much. I'd say that unless you are going to give this film your complete undivided attention, it's best to view this film as a bunch of beautiful scenes rather than a coherent whole. To a lesser extent the same could be true of La dolce vita however personally, I'd say La dolce vita is the better film and the plot pulls itself together a little better there.

[The Elegant Dandy Fop]

Anyway, back to 8½. I can see why some don't rate it too much. I'd say that unless you are going to give this film your complete undivided attention, it's best to view this film as a bunch of beautiful scenes rather than a coherent whole. To a lesser extent the same could be true of La dolce vita however personally, I'd say La dolce vita is the better film and the plot pulls itself together a little better there.

When I first saw it, it just seemed like that too, a bunch of scenes mashed together. Upon multiple viewings though, you see the movie is whole, not just several scene mixed together (then again, aren't all films scenes mixed together).

I'm not sure why there is so much dislike for Fellini now. He's, with out a doubt, my favorite director, and the most Latin director, presenting sex and obsession with woman in a very honest light, compared to, let's say, plenty Latin directors from Mexico which makes films too focused on a sort of taboo view look on sex.

I've heard him get criticized for being misogynistic, and for making unrealistic characters, but I have to disagree. So, what's with the dislike for Fellini?

[Awesome Welles]

If you don't like it, you don't like it. Personally it's one of my favourite films of all time but I can understand that everyone's tastes are very different. My suggestion would be to go away watch a load of films then come back to it. If you like it then well that's brilliant and if you don't who cares? No one should determine what you like, no matter how 'great' they're supposed to be. I watched Au Hasard Balthasar about a year ago and wasn't particularly overwhelmed, quite the opposite in fact, but there is this aura of greatness attached to it that I feel like I want to give it another chance only I'm not the kind of person that will watch something again just to get it. I'd rather come across it more naturally.

unless you are going to give this film your complete undivided attention

I give every film my complete undivided attention, even Scary Movie, I thought everyone did this, is it just me?

[125100]

unless you are going to give this film your complete undivided attention

I give every film my complete undivided attention, even Scary Movie, I thought everyone did this, is it just me?

No, but sometimes it's nice to sit down with a movie, relax, and just let it wash over you. This is not one of those films, it requires 100% concentration for you to truly appreciate or understand it. I mean if you let your mind wander for even a few seconds you're likely to totally miss something and then have no clue as to what relevance a particular character or scene as to do with the movie.

I know this is true of quite a few films but more so with this. And lets be honest, you could equally say that with a lot of films you could go away for 15 mins come back and still be totally clued up on what's going on.

Anyway I'm not critiquing 8½, it is truly wonderful and I do adore it but just like any true great work of art deserves more than a glance this film deserves more than to be just watched.

EDIT: Oh and is it just me or does anyone else think this movie has the greatest opening scene ever? I'd certainly be interested to hear what people regard as better...

[Michael]

When I first saw it, it just seemed like that too, a bunch of scenes mashed together. Upon multiple viewings though, you see the movie is whole, not just several scene mixed together (then again, aren't all films scenes mixed together).

I'm not sure why there is so much dislike for Fellini now. He's, with out a doubt, my favorite director, and the most Latin director, presenting sex and obsession with woman in a very honest light, compared to, let's say, plenty Latin directors from Mexico which makes films too focused on a sort of taboo view look on sex.

I've heard him get criticized for being misogynistic, and for making unrealistic characters, but I have to disagree. So, what's with the dislike for Fellini?

Nicely put. I agree with everything you wrote here, Elegant. I think 8½ is even more coherent than La dolce vita. Unlike 8½, the structure of La dolce vitais episodic, stretching over seven days, each day representing a "fresco" detailing a day of the life of Marcello. But on the other hand, 8½ is completely "whole". Same characters dance in and out of Guido's various dimensions - dream, reality, fantasy, wishful thinking, etc and the line separating the dimensions becoming thinner and thinner and characters transforming as much as only Guido allows or wants to as the film progresses.

8½ is the most astoundingly beautiful film ever made. As old folks walk up to the spa's outdoor dance patio, coming to life: the very cool looking chairs and benches, the electric glow, the sparkling dresses, and oh the music! Here we have old folks dancing, singing, playing music, making magic...and one of Guido's biggest fears that cripples him from growing up is the fear of getting old, Fellini shows beautifully how it is not so bad about being old as long as you have fun and passion. There is no such as thing as "its never too late" in Fellini's world.

[Awesome Welles]

Oh and is it just me or does anyone else think this movie has the greatest opening scene ever? I'd certainly be interested to hear what people regard as better.

It is indeed one of the best opening scenes ever. I'd also throw a vote in for Apocalypse Now (all those palm trees in flames) and also The Godfather (that wonderful speech by Amerigo Bonasera "I believe in America").

[Macintosh]

Oh and is it just me or does anyone else think this movie has the greatest opening scene ever? I'd certainly be interested to hear what people regard as better...

It is indeed one of the best opening scenes ever. I'd also throw a vote in for Apocalypse Now (all those palm trees in flames) and also The Godfather (that wonderful speech by Amerigo Bonasera "I believe in America").

What about your avatar? Celine and Julie has a beginning so wonderful it sets the stage to prepare you for one hell of a mystical journey. Also, Contempt.

[Awesome Welles]

What about your avatar? Celine and Julie has a beginning so wonderful it sets the stage to prepare you for one hell of a mystical journey. Also, Contempt.

Celine and Julie's opening scene is indeed wonderful, in fact the first thirty minutes are cinematic gold (as is the whole film), but The Godfather, Apocalypse Now and 8½and my standard Top 3 (not necessarily in that order) for movie openings (perhaps because I've seen them many more times).

[Magic Hate Ball]

Nicely put. I agree with everything you wrote here, Elegant. I think 8½ is even more coherent than La dolce vita. Unlike 8½, the structure of La dolce vitais episodic, stretching over seven days, each day representing a "fresco" detailing a day of the life of Marcello. But on the other hand,8½ is completely "whole".

I haven't actually seen La dolce vita, but I'd find it hard to agree that 8½ is a terribly coherent movie in regards to many other films. I like the original title, The Beautiful Confusion, as well, because it is. It's not an easy movie, either, and I think it would be silly to say that it is.

Oh and is it just me or does anyone else think this movie has the greatest opening scene ever? I'd certainly be interested to hear what people regard as better...

Personally, it has one of my favorite closing scenes ever. It's so happy!

I give every film my complete undivided attention, even Scary Movie, I thought everyone did this, is it just me?

I often play films on a small television that sits on a rolling stool next to my computer. I can see the film out of the corner of my eye when I'm looking at the computer (when writing, reading, whatever), and can obviously hear it, so it's like listening to a radio play that you can also see. This sounds really stupid, but if you aren't focusing on the visuals it's surprisingly easy to get lost and have to rewind to see what you missed. I've done this a few too many times with movies like Mulholland Dr. and Les Diabolique; Koyaanisqatsi, as an interesting note, completely glued me to my little television set, and now when I watch movies I devote time to them.

[Michael]

Personally, it has one of my favorite closing scenes ever. It's so happy!

Is it really so happy? To me, it's so bittersweet. The film darkens slowly as the boy plays the flute eternally with his cape flying in the night air. A powerful sense of melancholy carries the final note. Where's the boy heading to?

[Magic Hate Ball]

Personally, it has one of my favorite closing scenes ever. It's so happy!

Is it really so happy? To me, it's so bittersweet.

At least for Guido, it is. He does the right thing and stops the movie, and then, metaphorically, joins the circle of life, and (as the commentary tells us), the camera moves back to include Guido in everything that's going on around him. So not only is he celebrating his freedom, he's joining in with everyone around him. That plus the incredibly joyous music...what are you feeling bittersweet about? The death of the film?

The film darkens slowly as the boy plays the flute eternally with his cape flying in the night air. A powerful sense of melancholy carries the final note. Where's the boy heading to?

I didn't get "melancholy" from that at all. What I got was something more along the lines of "the next generation carries on", or, if not the next generation, then Guido's next film. Just like Sondheim's Sunday In The Park With George ends with a blank canvas, Fellini's 8½ ends with a dark movie screen; what's to be shown next?

[Michael]

That plus the incredibly joyous music...what are you feeling bittersweet about? The death of the film?

Well yeah the death of the film of course! Like I wrote previously, there's something sad/melancholy about the boy playing his flute, disappearing into the darkness. When the reality sinks in, we know all this - the joyous celebration - exists inside only Guido's mind. How wonderful it'd be if the celebration was all for real and for every day! But in reality, will Luisa still be around after walking out on Guido at the test screening? And so forth.

[Magic Hate Ball]

That plus the incredibly joyous music...what are you feeling bittersweet about? The death of the film?

Well yeah the death of the film of course! Like I wrote previously, there's something sad/melancholy about the boy playing his flute, disappearing into the darkness. When the reality sinks in, we know all this - the joyous celebration - exists inside only Guido's mind. How wonderful it'd be if the celebration was all for real and for every day! But in reality, will Luisa still be around after walking out on Guido at the test screening? And so forth.

Yes, but, at least for Guido, he celebrates! Even though time marches on, Guido's happy, if just for once. And he's learned a few lessons along the way. If Guido's not going to be happy again, might as well end it on a high note. Then again, the ending was also created mostly just for use in a trailer, so whether or not it really means something is not for sure. However, I do know that the ending Fellini had in mind was happy in an Annie Hall sort of way; Guido and Luisa come to terms with their relationship and with each other; later Guido sees all the women from his life in his train compartment. I assume this happens after the celebration at the space shuttle set. So that's bittersweet, sure, but I can't really help but feel elated at the end of 8½. I guess I'm just an optimist and there's no point in arguing any further.

[Michael]

Oh yes, I don't blame you for feeling elated with Guido and all the folks celebrating - down the stairs and in/around the rings, etc. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the moment right after the celebration dies down as we follow the boy and the sky turns black. There's a big shift in feelings right there. That's all.

And no, I'm not looking to argue with you. Just expressing my thoughts; they are just as valid as yours. I'm more than elated that you gave the film another chance instead of quitting and returning the disc to Netflix. I hope 8½ will grow on you as much as it does for me for three decades now.

[Magic Hate Ball]

I'm more than elated that you gave the film another chance instead of quitting and returning the disc to Netflix. I hope 8½ will grow on you as much as it does for me for three decades now.

Even if I did send it back, I would've bought it anyways. I wonder if that would've been a better idea, to buy it and wait for a good moment to watch it like I did with Requiem For A Dream, where I bought it, put it on my shelf and waited until the end of a bad week when I decided I needed to watch a film I hadn't seen before to calm my nerves, and put that in.

[Mr Sausage]

I'd find it hard to agree that 8½ is a terribly coherent movie in regards to many other films.

Do you mean coherent in terms of narrative or thematic structure? As narrative, yes, the film seems oddly constructed. But, most importantly--as this makes the loose narrative structure irrelevant--the thematic structure of the film is not only coherent but unified, and is carefully developed throughout each scene. Indeed, each scene serves as a piece that in the end forms the great circle in which Guido dances.