Mikio Naruse

Discuss individual directors, actors, cinematographers, writers, and more
Post Reply
Message
Author
User avatar
Steven H
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:30 pm
Location: NC

#226 Post by Steven H »

Michael Kerpan wrote:
Steven H wrote:while kabuki, while often also focusing on those things, has more to do with humanity itself (i.e. Chikamatsu's The Crucified Lovers).
I believe that this the underlying Chikamatsu work was a bunraku play.
Ah yes, I always lump them together because they stem from around the same time period. I believe they both still derived from Noh. I need to rewatch Song Lantern. Since it was unsubbed, and I was watching a bunch of Naruse at the time, it's hard for me to think of it.

I'm not too interested in the Kinugasa version.
ptmd
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:12 pm

#227 Post by ptmd »

One of the most striking Noh inspired films I've seen is Jissouji Akio's Mujo (or This Transient Life.) If one has the means of seeing this, make an effort.
That's very true. Another really interesting Noh-inspired film that's difficult to see is Kaneto Shindo's "Kanawa" (The Iron Crown, 1972). Kabuki and Bunraku influences are also very much in evidence in both versions of An Actor's Revenge and the first Ballad of Narayama.
Ah yes, I always lump them together because they stem from around the same time period. I believe they both still derived from Noh.
They both derive from Noh, but the influence is more direct in the case of Kabuki, which developed in Edo. Bunraku developed in Osaka, was aimed at a different, more mercantile audience, and incorporated other elements that were originally seen as non-theatrical (like puppets).
User avatar
Steven H
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 7:30 pm
Location: NC

#228 Post by Steven H »

Very informative. I have not seen the Shindo, but he's so hit and miss with me that I rely on specific recommendations of titles, like yours, rather than trying to see everything he's done. Thank you very much.

A big one that I'd love to see is Ichikawa Kon's first film, A Girl at Dojo Temple, written by Hasebe Keiji, who is responsible for writing some of my favorite Japanese films. I'm assuming this is bunraku influenced, about this I'm not entirely sure, and I have low expectations since it's a first feature length effort, but still.
User avatar
thirtyframesasecond
Joined: Mon Apr 02, 2007 5:48 pm

#229 Post by thirtyframesasecond »

I went to see When A Woman Ascends the Stairs yesterday. Thought it was excellent, and a good introduction to Naruse's career. I hope to see more but Repast might be the only one I definitely make. Thematically, it's quite similar to Mizoguchi, notably the sensitivity towards the female leads and the position of women in Japan at large.

Mike Leigh was in the seat in front incidentally.
Joshua Dago
Joined: Sat Jul 07, 2007 2:12 pm
Location: Amsterdam, The Netherlands

#230 Post by Joshua Dago »

recently i got the chance to see Meshi, Inazuma, Yama No Oto and Ukigumo on a big screen, plus i own the Criterion releases of When A Woman...

marvelous. i'm really impressed and this only gets me more into Japanese cinema. next up is some Shindo MoC's.
User avatar
ltfontaine
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:34 pm

#231 Post by ltfontaine »

ellipsis7 wrote:Audio commentaries by Freda Freiberg, Japanese cinema expert
The Australian Humanities Review says:
Freda Freiberg is a film historian, lecturer and critic. She has contributed numerous articles, essays and reviews on Japanese cinema, Australian film and photography, to a wide variety of publications, academic and journalistic, over the past 25 years. At Monash University, where she was formerly a lecturer in the Visual Arts Department, she contributed a course of lectures on the representation of the Holocaust in film to the Holocaust course run by the History Department.
I've read a few of Ms. Frieberg's essays on Japanese film at Senses of Cinema and elsewhere, with mixed feelings. Has anyone heard her lecture or otherwise have thoughts on what we might expect from her forthcoming Naruse commentaries?
User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Dublin

#232 Post by ellipsis7 »

Well there's this from aforesaid Senses of Cinema...

The Materialist Ethic of Mikio Naruse by Freda Freiberg
User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#233 Post by Michael Kerpan »

Well -- if anyone ever decides to release Naruse's "Apart From You", there is a detailed analysis at "Senses of Cinema".

;~}
User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Dublin

#234 Post by ellipsis7 »

Very good!... Just also ordered the Narboni/Naruse book on your previous rec...

Apart From You by Michael Kerpan
User avatar
ltfontaine
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:34 pm

#235 Post by ltfontaine »

ellipsis7 wrote:Well there's this from aforesaid Senses of Cinema...
The Materialist Ethic of Mikio Naruse by Freda Freiberg
This essay is loaded with the kind of head-scratchers that have made me ambivalent about Freiberg's criticism.
Freda Freiberg wrote:When writing about the oeuvre of Mikio Naruse, critics invariably lapse into invidious comparisons and a list of negatives. A late addition to the pantheon of Japanese auteurs, he has always been rated below Kurosawa, Ozu and Mizoguchi.
Naruse has “always been rated below Kurosawa?â€
User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#236 Post by Michael Kerpan »

ltfontaine wrote:In fact, Naruse's early films made a lot of money for Shochiku. And it was Naruse who dispensed with Shochiku, to make shomin-geki at PCL when the former studio insisted on keeping him mired in slapstick.
Not really correct. By 1933, Naruse was already getting to make major films with top quality casts. But he wanted to make sound films -- and studio boss Kido said no. Moreover, he was being grossly underpaid, given his critical and box office success. PCL was starting up movie making operations -- and needed lots of new talent and was willing to pay for it -- and was committed to making sound films (and agreed to let Naruse make them immediately). Ozu and other colleagues encouraged him to jump ship to a place where his efforts would be better rewarded.
Has anyone really devalued Naruse's style—extraordinary in its own right—because it doesn't conform to the critical models laid out by Bordwell and Burch?
I don't think Bordwell ever dismissed Naruse. I haven't read enough Burch to know what he said about Naruse. I do know that American conventional wisdom (Richie et al) used to be that although Naruse made good movies from time to time, he had "no style" (sort of like what was said about John Huston).
ptmd
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:12 pm

#237 Post by ptmd »

I don't necessarily want to defend the article above, which has it's own issues, but some of the points you are raising sound like strawman arguments to me.

[quote]Naruse has “always been rated below Kurosawa?â€
User avatar
GringoTex
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 9:57 am

#238 Post by GringoTex »

Of Naruse, I've only seen the three MoCs and one Criterion. Based on those, he has a stylistic signature and consistency as strong as Ozu's (if not as obvious). And his style is more consistent than Mizo or Kurosawa;s.
User avatar
ltfontaine
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:34 pm

#239 Post by ltfontaine »

Having been affably cautioned to keep an eye on the BFI, perhaps this conversation should be bumped to the Naruse thread?
Michael Kerpan wrote:
ltfontaine wrote:In fact, Naruse's early films made a lot of money for Shochiku. And it was Naruse who dispensed with Shochiku, to make shomin-geki at PCL when the former studio insisted on keeping him mired in slapstick.
Not really correct. By 1933, Naruse was already getting to make major films with top quality casts. But he wanted to make sound films -- and studio boss Kido said no. Moreover, he was being grossly underpaid, given his critical and box office success. PCL was starting up movie making operations -- and needed lots of new talent and was willing to pay for it -- and was committed to making sound films (and agreed to let Naruse make them immediately). Ozu and other colleagues encouraged him to jump ship to a place where his efforts would be better rewarded.
I don't think we're in substantial disagreement here, though I should have acknowledged that the profitable films Naruse was making for Shochiku in the years just prior to his exit were not limited to comedies. PCL offered more money and more opportunity to expand creatively, although I had previously understood that the disagreement between Naruse and Shochiku was over the director being allowed to make more serious dramas, not sound films, specifically. Most interesting.

In any case, and keeping an eye on the BFI, Freberg's straw claim that Naruse “couldn't or wouldn't master the lightly entertaining house style,â€
User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#240 Post by Michael Kerpan »

ltfontaine wrote:I haven't seen enough of Naruse's films to comment on his aesthetic likeness to John Huston, but I've seen all of Huston's films and find him the most wildly uneven filmmaker I know. Is Naruse's body of work really comparably variable in quality?
No -- Naruse is remarkably consistent -- and few of the many unheralded "minor" films I've seen have been clunkers (more have been gems). I'd say Naruse was more consistent than Mizoguchi overall.
User avatar
the dancing kid
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 11:35 pm

#241 Post by the dancing kid »

[quote="ltfontaine"] Freberg's straw claim that Naruse “couldn't or wouldn't master the lightly entertaining house style,â€
User avatar
ltfontaine
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:34 pm

#242 Post by ltfontaine »

ptmd wrote:I don't necessarily want to defend the article above, which has it's own issues, but some of the points you are raising sound like strawman arguments to me.
And I don't mean to sound like I'm attacking Freiberg for commentaries I haven't yet heard; maybe they're brilliant. But I'm not convinced that Naruse's critical reputation has historically been as dire as Frieberg contends.
Naruse has “always been rated below Kurosawa?â€
User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#243 Post by Michael Kerpan »

I wouldn't treat Anderson and Richie's book as gospel truth. It has a fair amount of misinformation (and over-dramatization) about Naruse. One of the most harmful myths it perpetrates is the that of the "15 year slump" (from 1936 to 1951). Almost certainly Anderson and Richie had seen none (or virtually none) of the films made during these years -- but that did not stop them from asserting that he was "incapable of turning out a really good film" throughout that period..
User avatar
ellipsis7
Joined: Tue Nov 02, 2004 5:56 pm
Location: Dublin

#244 Post by ellipsis7 »

Freiberg is not the only critic, scholar or writer to take the tack initially of measuring Naruse against other established directors and critics (David Thomson recently did so also for instance, while Burch examines him in passing)... Me - I found it a turnoff, and was put off by an apparent lack of substance in the advocacy of a place in the pantheon for Naruse, but continued with inquiring, spurred by persistant and provocative contributions (like MEK) on this forum...

Yet, I still hesitated, not quite convinced, till this availability of 6 films on DVD from MoC and BFI... Then recently, I read Philip Lopate's 'A Taste of Naruse', as referenced above, now if he is the filmmaker described in the article, I'm probably going to like his work a lot...
User avatar
ltfontaine
Joined: Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:34 pm

#245 Post by ltfontaine »

Michael Kerpan wrote:I wouldn't treat Anderson and Richie's book as gospel truth. It has a fair amount of misinformation (and over-dramatization) about Naruse. One of the most harmful myths it perpetrates is the that of the "15 year slump" (from 1936 to 1951). Almost certainly Anderson and Richie had seen none (or virtually none) of the films made during these years -- but that did not stop them from asserting that he was "incapable of turning out a really good film" throughout that period..
Richie and Anderson's book is certainly flawed, as you say (which is probably why Richie keeps endlessly rewriting it in different forms), but given its preeminment historical status as the first detailed study in English of Japanese Cinema, and probably the most widely read, its claims for Naruse, quoted above, are a pretty clear indicator that the director's work has not been as universally disparaged as some would claim.
User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#246 Post by Michael Kerpan »

Naruse's work wasn't exactly disparaged, lots of people had good things to say about various films. But his work as a whole was seen as less important (due to misapplied auteurist theory, perhaps) than that of Mizoguchi and Ozu and Kurosawa because critics could not see any unique visual style that tied his best films together. Thematic ties were certainly noted -- but the absence of an easily definable "style" was clearly seen as a deficit of sorts.
ptmd
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:12 pm

#247 Post by ptmd »

Critical favoritism of Kurosawa above all Japanese directors among many, mostly culturally-blinkered, Western critics seems to have more to do with his comparitively high profile, beginning with Rashomon, than with his "ambition and modernism," though perhaps one follows from the other, just as among Scandanavian filmmakers, Bergman is better known and more widely praised than the incomparable Dreyer. Look, I don't disagree with Freiberg's claim that Naruse is less popularly prominent than Kurosawa, Ozu and Mizoguchi, but I think his critical reputation has historically included more supporters than detractors, despite the picture painted by Freiberg .
It's certainly true that Naruse has always had his supporters, the issue is that many of them damn him with faint praise and most have historically ranked him below Kurosawa, Ozu, and Mizoguchi, for his lack of stylistic (and thematic) uniqueness. Richie says nice things about Naruse in many of his books, but it is obvious from each of those books that he doesn't value him as highly as Ozu or Kurosawa (he never felt the need to write "The Films of Mikio Naruse"). The point is that, historically, critical wisdom has held that Naruse is an interesting, but somewhat minor filmmaker, at least when compared to the formally rigorous masters of Japanese cinema, hence Freiberg's comment.
You're making my point, ptmd. Frieberg names Bordwell as one of two Naruse naysayers, but you've just cited evidence to the contrary. I think she is confusing Naruse's historically low profile with a negative critical consensus that is, at best, grossly overstated.
I guess I may not have made my point clearly enough. Bordwell does admire certain aspects of Naruse's work but he doesn't consider him the equal of the directors he's devoted books or large sections of books to. In other words, while I'm not 100% certain how Bordwell would rank Naruse relative to Kurosawa (I suspect he prefers Kurosawa), he clearly doesn't view him as a "parametric" director like Ozu or Mizoguchi.

Michael Kerpan is exactly right that the issue with Naruse, for many people, has always been the (perceived) lack of a characteristic visual style. It is true that Freiberg uses this to construct an argument that allows her to "save" Naruse, but I don't think she's being disingenuous in doing so and the truth is that these remain mitigating factors for a significant number of major critics and scholars.
User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#248 Post by Michael Kerpan »

Too bad that Narboni's book has not been translated into English -- as he seems to be the first Westerner who has tried to carefully examine (in depth) the issue of whether or not Naruse had a characteristic style.

Based on the excerpts from Catherine Russell's book so far, it looks like her analysis might be more concerned with content than with cinematic style.

I don't think Bordwell had to do a book on Naruse to demonstrate his appreciation. After all, he hasn't done books on Ann Hui or Johnnie To -- and yet he admires both of them quite a bit. ;~}
ptmd
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:12 pm

#249 Post by ptmd »

Based on the excerpts from Catherine Russell's book so far, it looks like her analysis might be more concerned with content than with cinematic style.
Well, that's generally been Catherine Russell's approach, so I'm sure you're right about her book. Still, I think it would do a lot for Naruse's reputation if someone writing in English would attempt to make a case for his mastery on stylistic grounds. Aside from Narboni, almost everyone tries to do this thematically (by stressing his "pessimism" or the nuances of the performances in his films, to cite the two most prominent arguments).
I don't think Bordwell had to do a book on Naruse to demonstrate his appreciation. After all, he hasn't done books on Ann Hui or Johnnie To -- and yet he admires both of them quite a bit. ;~}
That's certainly true as well, although I wasn't trying to suggest that Bordwell only likes the people he's devoted major pieces of writing to, but rather that, in almost every case, those happen to be the filmmakers he rates most highly (and, to bring us back to the piece above, the whole point was that Bordwell doesn't rate Naruse as highly as overt stylists like Ozu or Mizoguchi).
User avatar
Michael Kerpan
Spelling Bee Champeen
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:20 pm
Location: New England
Contact:

#250 Post by Michael Kerpan »

Narboni also attempts to deal with the "pessimism" issue, showing that this simplistic formulation is a pretty inadequate description of what Naruse actually presents in (most of) his films.

If I were more adept at French, I'd serve up some extracts.

As to Bordwell on Naruse, I think I'll just wait and see if he speaks for himself more fully on his blog on the issue. (One never can tell what he'll tackle there) ;~}

BTW -- I know Bordwell was looking for the Narboni book (after it was initially announced and failed to appear back in 2002 or so), but am not sure if he ever got a chance to read it once it finally came out.
Post Reply