El Cid & The Fall of the Roman Empire (Mann, 1961/64)

[Gigi M.]

Finally on Jan 29 & April 29, 2008.

From MoviesUnlimited:

One of the films most requested at Movies Unlimited, El Cid (1961), the epic produced by Samuel Bronston and directed by Anthony Mann, finally lands on DVD in two different versions with a spectacular new transfer. Charlton Heston plays the title role of Rodrigo Diaz, a disgraced Castilian knight who leads the Spanish people against the invading Moors from North Africa in 1060. Sophia Loren, Raf Vallone, and Herbert Lom also star in this spectacle that boasts gorgeous scenery (to go with gorgeous Sophia), thrilling battle scenes, and a sweeping historical story. There are a pair of two-disc sets on the way: El Cid (Deluxe Edition), with interviews, commentary, trailers, and more, and El Cid (Limited Collector's Edition), with all the bells and whistles, plus a special book.

MoviesUnlimited are also the ones who announced that El Cid, The Fall of the Roman Empire, 55 Days in Peking etc. would be coming, courtesy of the Weinstein Co. The titles they had mentioned in their questions and answers section last summer and fall have all been announced so far.

Weinstein Co. launches three DVD labels

The Weinstein Co. and its Dimension Films have launched three new direct-to-DVD labels: classics specialist The Miriam Collection, family-friendly Kaleidoscope TWC and horror/thriller/sci-fi hybrid Dimension Extreme.

The first release from Miriam will be 1961 film El Cid, which has not yet streeted on DVD. El Cid stars Charlton Heston and Sophia Loren and explores Spanish hero Rodrigo Diaz. Others in the Miriam pipeline are Fall of the Roman Empire with Loren, 55 Days at Peking with Heston and Circus World with John Wayne.

Additionally slated for the label are Pedro Almodovar's Dark Habits and What Have I Done to Deserve This? and Akira Kurosawa's Madadayo.

Well, there's more guesswork in motion regarding The Weinstein Company's upcoming disc of The Fall of the Roman Empire; correspondent "B" informs me of an interesting DVD Spin Doctor article by Glenn Abel about the possibility of the DVD being released at its full Road Show length. More restoration hopes are raised!

Lost 'Fall of Roman Empire' footage found

“Lost” footage from “The Fall of the Roman Empire” apparently has been found in London, perhaps in time for this year’s DVD release.

At Monday’s screening of “El Cid” in Hollywood, the son of producer William Bronston told the audience of seeing a prerelease version of the epic as a boy. He later wondered why some of the best lines and scenes were edited out of the movie when it premiered in 1964.

An audience member told William Bronston he thought he could find the missing footage. A few days later, Bill emailed me with this good news:

“I just got word that one of the members of the audience followed through on my direction to contact the Weinsteins about his confidence in being able to find the 30 minutes of missing footage cut from the release print of ‘The Fall.’ He did and the next day found the footage in London, which he has offered to get for the Weinsteins. Amazing!”

The Weinstein Company/Genius Products has “The Fall of the Roman Empire” scheduled for a late April release, as part of its Samuel Bronston epics slate.

“Maybe there'll be a superb additional ‘special feature’ of the directors cut with the most dramatic pieces in the DVD package,” William Bronston wrote. “What is missing made the movie for me.”

The complete Bronston release slate: “El Cid,” “The Fall of the Roman Empire,” “55 Days at Peking” and “Circus World.” Disney released "Roman Empire" on DVD in 2001, to mixed reviews.

[rwaits]

Hmmm... Do we at least know who's releasing?

[Cinephrenic]

Finally yes. It is one of my favorite epic stories. Two-disc sounds promising, but I hope the transfer is good. I have a bootleg copy of the film which really sucks. Hopefully it has some extras on it.

Fall of the Roman Empire

Same goes here too.

[Petty Bourgeoisie]

Alec Guinness' performace in Fall of the Roman Empire! =D> =D>

Put me down for the Limited Collector Editions of El Cid and FOTRM. I've got Asian bootlegs that blow and I love these films.

[Belmondo]

Bad orchestral scores have the main title theme played and replayed in different tempos.
Great orchestral scores have several exciting and lovely themes.
Two of the best right here:

EL CID - Miklos Rozsa
FALL of the ROMAN EMPIRE - Dimitri Tiomkin

[tryavna]

FALL of the ROMAN EMPIRE - Dimitri Tiomkin

Quite possibly Tiomkin's richest score ever!

I'm looking forward to all the Bronstein epics coming out. I don't think any of the others quite equal Fall of the Roman Empire, which may well be the most intelligent epic Hollywood ever produced. But El Cid, 55 Days at Peking, and even Circus World are well worth multiple viewings.

[patrick]

Here's a slightly more detailed list of special features from The Digital Bits:

And here's great news: Genius Products and The Weinstein Company have finally announced the DVD release of Anthony Mann's El Cid on 1/29/08, as part of Weinstein Co's new Miriam Collection label... yes, named after Bob and Harvey's mother. The Miriam Collection is meant to highlight "the best of contemporary and classic cinema." The 2-disc DVD will be issued in two versions - a deluxe edition and collector's edition. The deluxe edition will offer the film digitally remastered and will feature an introduction by Martin Scorsese, 1961 radio interviews with stars Charleton Heston and Sophia Loren, audio commentary by historian Neal M. Rosendorf and Bill Bronston (the son of producer Sam Bronston), a documentary on film preservation/restoration, featurettes on the producer, director and composer, and the Hollywood Conquers Spain documentary. The collector's edition will include all that, plus reproductions of the original 1961 program, a comic book and 6 production stills. Fans have been waiting for the DVD release of this film for a long time. Let's hope that The Fall of the Roman Empire isn't far behind.

[Cinephrenic]

That is a impressive list of extras, and a Martin Scorsese intro? I've been waiting for this.

Both El Cid and The Fall of the Roman Empire are two greatly underrated epics that deserve more attention.

[Cosmic Bus]

Package design for the collector's edition here. Pleasant enough.

[rgross]

As I remember, El Cid has been given shabby treatment in the past whatever the medium. I remember the VHS release was the only extended play VHS I ever bought in a store. I heard that a previous DVD release was so bad I ended up not getting it. Instead I ordered a Region 2 disc from Spain where it is impossible to get rid of the subtitles. The transfer was reasonable if you didn't mind reading the movie in Spanish. So here is to a hopefully good release that shows off the spectacle of the film including the best jousting match ever in a movie.We'll see.

[zedz]

As I remember, El Cid has been given shabby treatment in the past whatever the medium.

I'm a huge Mann fan, and I've never seen the film even though I've had a DVD of it for about five years. It's a P&S atrocity that I've never been able to bring myself to watch after a single glimpse at the first couple of minutes.

[Roger_Thornhill]

As I remember, El Cid has been given shabby treatment in the past whatever the medium.

I'm a huge Mann fan, and I've never seen the film even though I've had a DVD of it for about five years. It's a P&S atrocity that I've never been able to bring myself to watch after a single glimpse at the first couple of minutes.

Ditto. I've had that crap P&S El Cid DVD for ages but turned it off after ten minutes because it had such a lousy transfer. So unfortunately I've never seen El Cid. I did, however, catch TFOTRE on TCM a couple years back and it's a remarkable epic, perhaps my favorite epic from that period. Mann was an unbelievably versatile filmmaker.

[kekid]

As I remember, El Cid has been given shabby treatment in the past whatever the medium. I remember the VHS release was the only extended play VHS I ever bought in a store. I heard that a previous DVD release was so bad I ended up not getting it. Instead I ordered a Region 2 disc from Spain where it is impossible to get rid of the subtitles. The transfer was reasonable if you didn't mind reading the movie in Spanish. So here is to a hopefully good release that shows off the spectacle of the film including the best jousting match ever in a movie.We'll see.

El Cid was available on a good Criterion laserdisc. I still have it, and find it better than the DVD versions I have seen.

[Orphic Lycidas]

Amazing! "The Fall of the Roman Empire" was one of my favorite films as an adolescent. I haven't seen it in perhaps a decade so I have no idea if the film matches with my memories of it but this is very, very exciting. I haven't done any Internet research yet but does anyone know what was cut from the film and why? I'm assuming it was an issue of length. Does a late April release leave enough time for a restoration or will it have to pushed back or will we have to wait for another restoration DVD? As you can tell I know very little about the production side of things.

Edit: According to a poster on the IMDb board this rumor is false. Only a few minutes were rediscovered, not the missing 30. The scene is the "trilemma" scene described here. The DVD release will go on as scheduled. Maybe we'll see it in a future BluRay re-release.

[John Cope]

A really excellent reading of the film and assessment of the DVD.

[Person]

Yes, an excellent assessment. This new transfer seems to reveal the original intent of Anthony Mann cinematographer, Robert Krasker as far as the lighting goes. Previous transfers were blown out, contrasty, the colors faded. Now, we can see how dark the lighting was in many scene, quite unusual for an epic film of this period. Vibrancy and high key lighting for faces was usually the order of the day. But here, we have something quite bold, and as Jeremiah Kipp notes - somber. Marcus Aurelius' funeral is one of my favourite scenes in Cinema. The close-ups are magnificent - almost as good as those in Polanski's Macbeth when Birnam Wood finally comes to Dunsinane. The death of Aurelius marked the end of one of history's few great epochs. One of the great men died and with him all sense of restraint, decency, dignity.

I never noticed the credit for the great histoirian-philosopher, Will Durant before - he is credited as an advisor. I recently read Durant's book, The Lessons of History (which has been OOP for years, I'm sorry to report). His was a somewhat pessimistic view, though not quite Spencerian, as he believed - as I do - in the 'waxing and waning' view of history. In their day, the Romans were the best, the mightiest and rightly ruled the roost. Today, it's trickier to say who's on top - perhaps no one. And there's the rub - a setting in of general weakness - in the Western world, at least. Are we ready to be conquered, I wonder?

[tryavna]

Are we ready to be conquered, I wonder?

Are you suggesting that we have already "been conquered from within"?

(It's that quotation that should give Durant's involvement away. It's one of his most famous -- though it's kind of cool that the movie never explicitly identifies the source of the line.)

[Person]

Are we ready to be conquered, I wonder?

Are you suggesting that we have already "been conquered from within"?

No. All is well in Europe. Go back to work, good people. All is well.

(It's that quotation that should give Durant's involvement away. It's one of his most famous -- though it's kind of cool that the movie never explicitly identifies the source of the line.)

I don't think he was actually involved in any major way, to be honest, as the film is riddled with inaccuracies that Durant would never have approved of. Have you read The Story of Civilisation, tryavna? I was pessimistic about the "historical process" before reading Spengler and Durant, what with my close readings of Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, but what you get from those former two men is magnificently sobering.

[Via_Chicago]

Are we ready to be conquered, I wonder?

Are you suggesting that we have already "been conquered from within"?

(It's that quotation that should give Durant's involvement away. It's one of his most famous -- though it's kind of cool that the movie never explicitly identifies the source of the line.)

Clearly they haven't seen Apocalypto. (at Apocalypto not you guys).

[Orphic Lycidas]

Are we ready to be conquered, I wonder?

Are you suggesting that we have already "been conquered from within"?

No. All is well in Europe. Go back to work, good people. All is well.

(It's that quotation that should give Durant's involvement away. It's one of his most famous -- though it's kind of cool that the movie never explicitly identifies the source of the line.)

I don't think he was actually involved in any major way, to be honest, as the film is riddled with inaccuracies that Durant would never have approved of. Have you read The Story of Civilisation, tryavna? I was pessimistic about the "historical process" before reading Spengler and Durant, what with my close readings of Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, but what you get from those former two men is magnificently sobering.

Not to get too off-topic but I've never understood the fascination with Spengler. He's emblematic of the abysmal decline of intellectual discourse during the period building up to fascism. His criticism of the ancient-medieval-modern framework of historical classification in the first chapter is the only thing worth reading. He then goes on to construct a model for comparison and analogy which he doesn't even attempt to justify because it has no cause. Civilizations simply arise for no reason, live an allotted time-span and then die after an age of metropolii and Caesarism. He constructs a mighty framework with no material, scientific or sociological basis and simply presents his self-constructed patterns which he claims are more valid than the "random" patterns he critiques. Why? Being a metaphysical philosopher he doesn't need to provide an answer. His pattern simply convinces him more. This inability to link things to a material foundation leads him to the most absurd conclusions as when he states that the Greeks had little sense of history because it never occurred to them to excavate Troy like it has to us Westerners. He then goes on to contrast the Greek sense of "historylessness" with the centuries and millennia of Egyptian records. Things like political stability or the development of technological or scientific tools or other social developments mean little to him. "To the true Russian the basic proposition of Darwinism is as devoid of meaning as that of Copernicus is to the true Arab." As an example of ultra-right retardation statements like these may be of some interest but not if you want to learn anything about history. Unless we sure in his opinion that Western civilization can be strengthened through the inter-marrying of Jews and Germans, thus creating a super-race which will face the end with militaristic bravery, serving at the right-hand of Il Duce.

I think G.E.M. De Ste. Croix "The Class Struggle in the Ancient Greek World" and Michael Rostovtzeff's "Social and Economic History of the Roman Empire" are far richer in their empiricism and theoretical value, both for understanding the Roman Empire and, analogously, our modern world. Never read Durant.

[tryavna]

I don't think he was actually involved in any major way, to be honest, as the film is riddled with inaccuracies that Durant would never have approved of.

Hmmm.... I tend to think of it the other way around. The fact that Fall is so much more historically accurate than all the other ancient epics of the period is what leads me to believe that Durant's involvement, while perhaps not extensive, was still significant. For some reason, I can just picture him and Mann "clicking," so to speak.

Have you read The Story of Civilisation, tryavna? I was pessimistic about the "historical process" before reading Spengler and Durant, what with my close readings of Schopenhauer and Nietzsche, but what you get from those former two men is magnificently sobering.

I've only read parts of the entire series -- and that was some time ago. I'm probably more familiar with The Story of Philosophy and his other writings about philosophy and education, but I tend to think that basic introductions to the history of philosophy don't get much better than Durant's. He's just such an engaging and articulate writer. (I don't believe I've ever read much Spengler, though.)

[drsg]

How are the LEs of these films compared to the 2 disc versions? Are they worth the difference in price?

[HerrSchreck]

WHats an LE?

There's the limited collectors editions, and the two disc deluxe editions. The only difference between the two is a couple comic books & souvenier programs. The discs are the same. So take the deluxe editions, throw in a bunch of posters & stuff, and youve got the limited collectors editions, which are the more sensible buys... they both have the same disc sets.

[Cosmic Bus]

There's the limited collectors editions, and the two disc deluxe editions. The only difference between the two is a couple comic books & souvenier programs.

Actually, Fall has a third disc with some additional docs that were shot on set.

[HerrSchreck]

Ok. I only have El Cid-- but the gist is that then the "regular" Miriam release (as opposed to the Limited Collectors) will have the same # of discs vs the corresponding limited release Collectors, which just throws a bunch of printed paper in w the reg release. The disc-count is the same.. i e the Miriam edition without the comic & posters, etc, has that third disc, right?