Lions for Lambs (Robert Redford, 2007)

[domino harvey]

I think it's funny/depressing that so many critics are objecting so strongly to the at times obvious lecture structure of the film, as though the only valid way to make a film is with a conventional narrative and plot.

[Oedipax]

I think it's funny/depressing that so many critics are objecting so strongly to the at times obvious lecture structure of the film, as though the only valid way to make a film is with a conventional narrative and plot.

Anthony Lane mentioned Godard in his review for the New Yorker, saying in effect he's one of the only ones who can make this sort of thing work. I'd be curious to hear if there's even a superficial similarity between the two.

I don't doubt the sincerity of Redford and everyone else involved in making this particular piece of "liberal patriotic flag waving" shit, but I also find this trend rather irritating, perhaps even slightly incoherent ideologically. Maybe it just means I'm further to the left - but it does somehow ring false, even if it shouldn't. If more of the troops voted liberally, I might feel different about it - but as it stands, the whole "Support Our Troops" thing, trying to shield oneself from criticism of liberal positions by taking up patriotism, it just doesn't feel genuine. And from what I've seen, the right-wingers don't buy it, either.

[akaten]

Exactly Oedipax, though I'm not sure about the assertion that being liberal means you cannot be patriotic (i.e wanting whats in the best interest of the nation and its people, as opposed to the government). It does seem unlikely to even been viewed by conservatives, which forms the basis of a broader trend that appears to be occuring in Hollywood right now.

I've no figures to back this assertion but I feel that 'star' films which tackle issues of the day are simply not wanted by the majority of mainstream cinema viewers, regardless of political orientation. Meanwhile they are considered too lightweight by cinephiles and critics. Hollywood stars seem as much a liability to big budget films these days anyhow, probably better off being gossip celebrities who star in dimwitted escapism so as not to offend their 'loving' audience.

BTW, just looking at a couple (outright hostile) reviews from UK papers suggests Lions for Lambs is even less likely to suceed abroad as it was in the US.

[DrewReiber]

I saw the film this weekend and I can see why so few have anything good to say about it. I didn't care about the potential liberal/conservative bias, because the script and direction was so poor that a friend of mine and I couldn't stop laughing. If the goal of this film was to reach the disaffected 20-something, then they failed the minute they decided the best way to portray my age group was through stereotypes.

Of course, you also have to love a film that attempts to argue the importance of the individual while simultaneously mispresenting the power and influence of an individual senator and a journalist who seems to think she and her boss were responsible for an entire war. This movie was so laugh-out-loud over-the-top that it was only further exaggerated by Redford's attempt to repair the material by constantly unmotivated cuts and random inserts. LOOK, SHE'S JOTTING NOTES! OH MY GOD, WHY ARE THERE CLOSEUPS OF BADLY PHOTOSHOPPED PROP PICTURES. Weeeee, here comes uncomfortably unbalanced closeup #23!

I went in expecting a middle of the road retread of today's political conflict, due to the shortcomings in gaining word-of-mouth or at least a decent number of fair reviews. Even worse, I got a jumbled, confused mess that couldn't decide if it was going to try to reach my generation by portraying us with as annoying ciphers or just spend the entire feature pandering to the baby-boomer generation that's still trying to figure out who to blame for potentially creating Vietnam Part 2.

By the point that Redford is literally screaming at us "ROME IS BURNING!", I was at least no longer offended and just enjoying it as a farce. I don't prescribe to the notion that good lecture films are limited to Godard, as I fell in love with Good Night and Good Luck. This thing, whatever the hell it was or thought it was, existed in a headspace as self-important and confused as the student Redford wanted us to believe represented this younger generation.

By the time Streep had watched Washington's greatest landmarks via montage and yelled at her boss about how the media could have saved us all from the Iraq war, I had also decided my new name for the film would be "Super-Conversations". Nearly everyone in the film operated from an attitude that implied or outright stated that their decisions and actions alone will change the entire playing field, even though Redford's character was offering that no such generalizations exist in reality. I don't think Redford was operating from anything other than utter hypcrisy to propose this macro-argument while at the same time trying to argue these characters reflect reality and should bear weight on my age group's decision-making process.

Prior to this feature, I was intrigued about Redford and Haggis' upcoming adaptation of Richard Clark's Against All Enemies. Now I would think it best for everyone if Haggis finds another director or abandon the project alltogether. I don't want to see such an underexposed analysis of real events turn into another screaming match between assorted cartoons.

[tavernier]

LOOK, SHE'S JOTTING NOTES! OH MY GOD, WHY ARE THERE CLOSEUPS OF BADLY PHOTOSHOPPED PROP PICTURES.

That was my favorite part of this awfully literal movie - those pictures were hanging out in the background, and I was dreading the moment when Redford would show them in closeup, since it was obviously coming at some point. And he did it, of course - only to be followed by a closeup of a framed Time magazine article about the senator that Streep's character had written. And she looked shocked--I mean, shocked!--to see it there.

[exte]

I saw the film this weekend and I can see why so few have anything good to say about it. I didn't care about the potential liberal/conservative bias, because the script and direction was so poor that a friend of mine and I couldn't stop laughing. If the goal of this film was to reach the disaffected 20-something, then they failed the minute they decided the best way to portray my age group was through stereotypes.

Nice review, Drew. I almost want to see it, if only to imagine how Oliver Stone would romp through this territory. Would someone kindly give him back his ballsack?

[DrewReiber]

Nice review, Drew. I almost want to see it, if only to imagine how Oliver Stone would romp through this territory. Would someone kindly give him back his ballsack?

I would settle for his brains.

I take it you realize the irony of mentioning Oliver Stone in this thread? I think they just finished casting Pinkville. For United Artist's sake, I hope Lambs was a fluke.

[exte]

I take it you realize the irony of mentioning Oliver Stone in this thread?

No, it was news to me. I'm just saying I've never seen anyone do political like Mr. Stone in JFK... He can blow shit up and get the masses real stirred up.

[patrick]

Well, I was hoping for some real out-there shit from World Trade Center and that was just the same old patriotic horseshit. I really can't watch Stone's films after Any Given Sunday, which ruined an entertaining script and solid performances with Stone's absolutely dreadful cinematic style. How many time-lapse photos of thunderstorms does one football scene need?

How does this compare to Syriana? That was one of the few "message" movies of the last few years that really connected with me, and while it's certainly not a lecture film it seems to share that "different people who are all connected" structure.

[DrewReiber]

How does this compare to Syriana? That was one of the few "message" movies of the last few years that really connected with me, and while it's certainly not a lecture film it seems to share that "different people who are all connected" structure.

Do yourself a big favor now and don't bother comparing anything from Section Eight/Clooney to this. Even The Good German, for what a complete mess that it was, had more to say and tried something different. At best, Lions for Lambs is like a melodramatic TV movie that one of the lesser cable stations might create if they could afford the talent.

[HerrSchreck]

Now is just not the time for smart folks to be listening to jack shit pussyassed (four years ago) Hollywood Big Names (who should have stood up from the start) play the wise man in this situation and pontificate. Too safe, too late, too acceptable, too bad your movie is now annoying in theme, too-dle-oo!