411 Berlin Alexanderplatz

[markhax]

I just ordered mine from Amazon and it will arrive on Thursday, when I am out of town! My viewing plans are complicated by Thanksgiving, when my son will be here. Of course we could watch all 16 hours over three days, eating our turkey off TV trays, but it seems like an overdose.

After he leaves I think we will do it one episode a night. There will be a moratorium on viewing Netflix rentals until we are done.

[blindside8zao]

I was lucky enough to get mine via the 50 percent off coupon on BN. Less than 40 dollars with express shipping. I'm going to try and tackle this in a one day marathon but who knows if I'll make it.

[planetjake]

How/When is everyone planning to tackle this beast? Two parts a night for a week? One day marathon viewing over Christmas vacation?

Just got done with a 6-7 hour marathon viewing. We did a private digital projection of the DVD overnight in a movie theatre that I work in. Part II of the marathon will follow soon.

First impressions are strong on my end. The visual (RWF) motifs of mirrors, frames within frames and the like effectively reinforce the primary thematic element of searching (for) and culture influence on identity. Just got past the part where Franz meets his female counterpart (perhaps double would be a better word?). Felt it an interesting (pure Fassbinder) inclusion to parallel her own (likewise, culture inflicted/induced/influenced) lack of identity, or value as it were. Certainly an unnerving episode, the use/choice of music here struck me as unusually effective.

The friend that I screened it with is somewhat on the fence. He expressed concern regarding the awkward transitions between the episodes. While I concede that watching 7 hours of this films with little downtime is a unique challenge that the piece wasn't necessarily designed for, I also realize just that: It wasn't really meant for one sitting.

Anyway, I'm entranced. Can't wait to see the rest of it.

[jesus the mexican boi]

I was lucky enough to get mine via the 50 percent off coupon on BN. Less than 40 dollars with express shipping. I'm going to try and tackle this in a one day marathon but who knows if I'll make it.

Me, too -- sweet deal, B&N (though mine was about $43 with tax, but who's complaining?) I know I'll be unable to watch it in a marathon, but in chunks it will be just as rewarding. This is one of those that I never expected to be able to see, certainly not in a Criterion Collection presentation. Christmas comes early with a Fassbinder holy grail.

[montgomery]

And in defence of RWF's version of the novel, he has always been focussed on character and the social processes that determine / undermine it and is hardly ever concerned primarily with landscape or milieu independent of character - he's not a 'scenic' filmmaker. Berlin Alexanderplatz represents his most intent, extended focus on those primary concerns, and as such it's one of cinema's greatest character studies, so it seems a bit churlish to complain that it's not also a completely different kind of film.

I'm not complaining that it's not a different kind of film; I just think the film is flawed in some aspects. I agree with you that RFW is not a scenic filmmaker and is more focussed on character, which is why I think the chamber-drama scenes and episodes are the strongest parts of BA. But, as I said, RFW doesn't eschew the novel's focus on milieu altogether. It would certainly be legitimate for Fassbinder to suggest that, while the film HAPPENS to take place in late-20s Berlin, it could take place anywhere, anytime, it is universal. But I don't think that's what he is saying (obviously, German's history was also an important theme in Fassbinder's work). I think Fassbinder tries to retain, to some extent, the novel's ties between character and mileau, but Fassbinder's natural affinity for character overtakes all other concerns (and I do think that budgetary limitations, and his quick shooting pace might have compromised his intent in some regards).
I'm not complaining necessarily. A film of such length is bound to have weaknesses. I am a RFW fanatic and don't want him to make a "different kind of film." But that doesn't mean I think he was 100% successful.

[jbeall]

How/When is everyone planning to tackle this beast? Two parts a night for a week? One day marathon viewing over Christmas vacation?

Two-a-day (morning and night) for a week while my girlfriend is in France. There's no way she'll sit through this monster, so I've got to go it alone!

Did anybody notice that the Ny Times review talked more about the Jutzi version than Fassbinder's?

[davebert]

I also got this yesterday from B&N's 50% deal, and even the packaging is daunting. I suspect the wife and I will be doing 1-2 hour a night for a week or two. Even if I have the time to do a run straight through, which I don't, I've found that I just can't endure more than a few hours of film at a time. I get fidgety.

[TheGodfather]

dvdtalk.com

[Lemmy Caution]

How/When is everyone planning to tackle this beast? Two parts a night for a week? One day marathon viewing over Christmas vacation?

Well, I thought of watching it all in one 7 1/2 hour session on fast forward (2x) ... but decided instead to start with the 1931 film. Not sure if this is a good way to go, but I figured it was a way to ease into things. Also has the benefit of familiarizing one with the story arc, and offering an opportunity to see what decisions Fassbinder makes. (Was Fassbinder aware of or had he seen the Jutzi version?)

In any case, I'm a fan of late 20's German silents and early French talkies, so I was pretty excited to see the Jutzi film. I like the cast, the avant guard stylings, and seeing old Berlin in transformation. A few scenes have overly melodramatic acting (especially those between the two female characters). Very good film, although the plot frequently seems choppy; I assume a product of trying to fit too much narrative into too short a film.

Interested if any one else went with the Jutzi version first, and if that set the table well for the Fassbinder mega-film?
----------------------------------------
Edit: Just looking on Imdb, and I see only 80 votes and one comment for the 1931 BA. I guess it was previously rather hard to see. Are any other Jutzi films available on Dvd?

[GringoTex]

How/When is everyone planning to tackle this beast? Two parts a night for a week? One day marathon viewing over Christmas vacation?

I finished Part 1 last night and then started Part 2, and it just didn't feel right. It seemd obvious to me a viewing break was intended between the parts so I stopped. I'm doing one part per night.

[davebert]

While that's encouraging to my personal plans of one-a-days, didn't an On Five blog a while ago (during BA's screening at MOMA) fully endorse the view that the miniseries was "meant" to be seen as one marathon mega-film?

I would also be curious about others' recommendations about starting with the Jutzi film.

[denti alligator]

Are any other Jutzi films available on Dvd?

Not that I know of, but his Mutter Krausens Fahrt ins Glueck is a masterpiece.

[montgomery]

While that's encouraging to my personal plans of one-a-days, didn't an On Five blog a while ago (during BA's screening at MOMA) fully endorse the view that the miniseries was "meant" to be seen as one marathon mega-film?

Having seen it in one marathon viewing at MOMA, I'd say it is probably not "meant" to be seen that way, nor is it necessary. It was certainly a test of will, and, never having sit through anything that long, quite an intense experience--Beiberkopf becomes your life for two days. But this time, I'm watching one a night.

[HerrSchreck]

(Was Fassbinder aware of or had he seen the Jutzi version?)

I'm sure you could bet the bank on that one... even on the offchance that he hadn't, someone around him in the German cinema certainly would have mentioned it to him. But there's so much consciousness of the Wiemar cinema in RWF, beyond BERLIN, say in VVOSS, and certainly the similarity in titles Mutter Küsters' Fahrt zum Himmel (RWF) and Mutter Krause Fahrt ins Gluck (jutzi) is no accident.

[GringoTex]

and certainly the similarity in titles Mutter Küsters' Fahrt zum Himmel (RWF) and Mutter Krause Fahrt ins Gluck (jutzi) is no accident.

Both movies are based on the same story by Heinrich Zille.

I'm through Part 5 now and I want to urge everybody NOT to try to slog this one out in one or two settings. It was NOT made to be seen that way. I feel sorry for people who's memory of this film is tied in with exhaustion. Seen one episode at a time, it unfolds at a beautiful clip.

[Lemmy Caution]

I've made it through 4 parts over 5 days so far. I think two episodes at a clip would be best, though I haven't had time to do that.

The film has a fairly slow pace in terms of narrative development. I think my decision to watch the 1931 BA as prep for Fassbinder's BA was neither positive or negative. It got me interested in watching the mega-BA -- and the 1931 Jutzi film stands on its own quite fine -- but really the first quarter of Fassbinder's film doesn't have much overlap with the 1931 film. I'd probably now rec the 1931 BA for viewing after digesting RWF's 15.5, for the different take on Franz Biberkopf and the storyline.

I will say that I'm having somewhat of a hard time getting into RWF's BA. It very often feels like a staged play, with its dramatic acting, monologues, limited characters in a few enclosed settings, etc.

Also I would have preferred getting to know Biberkopf a little more first, instead of starting off with his psychological crumbling. The yellowy brown sepia lighting gets somewhat tiresome, as does the frequent flashing lights (from exterior advertisements).

Fassbinder tries to incorporate Doblin's collage technique in two ways: through unrelated voice-overs (done by RWF himself) and by having characters (usually Bieberkoff) read various contracts, newspaper articles, letters and adverts. I've found these techniques to be only intermittently successful.

The central performance by Gunter Lamprecht is quite good, though his character is at times cryptic and odd. [At times, wearing a hat and in profile, Lamprecht looks like Bruce Willis. In times of excess and good spirits, he reminded me of John Goodman]. It's nice to see Hanna Schygulla and Brigitte Mira, though both in limited recurring roles. In upcoming episodes, I'm looking forward to Barbara Sukowa, Volker Spengler, and other friends from Fassbinder's past.

I haven't even yet met the Reinhold character who leads Franz into crime, so it's still essentially the prologue through Part IV. As most episodes are only one hour long, I think two or three episodes a night (at roughly an hour per) would work about right and be a quicker immersion into the narrative. Not to mention reducing the film to a manageable one week affair, rather than a fortnight. One disc at a time would be two parts = 2 1/2 hours for the first viewing; 3 parts and 3 hours for the next, etc.

[markhax]

I have watched three episodes so far. I am rereading the corresponding sections of the novel after each episode. Fassbinder departs from the novel in a number of ways. The reentry into Berlin from Tegel prison on the 41 tram, which is such a prominent feature of the novel and the 1931 film, is truncated in RWF's film so that it seems the prison is in the middle of the city. Fassbinder loved Hollywood films, but did he have to make Franz's women so beautiful? In the novel his first girl friend. Lina, is described as "fat" and "slutty". The gorgeous Elisabeth Trissenaar hardly fits that description. Also, in the novel she is not living with Franz as she is in the film.

Also, Fassbinder has Biberkopf's old girlfriend Eva appear twice early in the film (when he is selling tie holders, and when he is taking flowers to the widow with whom he has slept while peddling shoelaces). In the novel, Eva appears for the first time on page 197 of the edition Fassbinder read (you can see him reading it in "Germany in Autumn').

[skuhn8]

I have watched three episodes so far. I am rereading the corresponding sections of the novel after each episode. Fassbinder departs from the novel in a number of ways. The reentry into Berlin from Tegel prison on the 41 tram, which is such a prominent feature of the novel and the 1931 film, is truncated in RWF's film so that it seems the prison is in the middle of the city. Fassbinder loved Hollywood films, but did he have to make Franz's women so beautiful? In the novel his first girl friend. Lina, is described as "fat" and "slutty". The gorgeous Elisabeth Trissenaar hardly fits that description. Also, in the novel she is not living with Franz as she is in the film.

Also, Fassbinder has Biberkopf's old girlfriend Eva appear twice early in the film (when he is selling tie holders, and when he is taking flowers to the widow with whom he has slept while peddling shoelaces). In the novel, Eva appears for the first time on page 197 of the edition Fassbinder read (you can see him reading it in "Germany in Autumn').

Please don't take this as being snippy, but if there is any way NOT to view the film/series for the first time this is probably it.

[teddyleevin]

How/When is everyone planning to tackle this beast? Two parts a night for a week? One day marathon viewing over Christmas vacation?

I want to watch it all at once, but I don't want to wait as long as Christmas. I'm too excited to see it.

I'll probably end up having a free weekend day sometime soon, but if not, I'll probably watch it over two nights.

[Lemmy Caution]

I have watched three episodes so far. I am rereading the corresponding sections of the novel after each episode.
...
Fassbinder loved Hollywood films, but did he have to make Franz's women so beautiful? In the novel his first girl friend. Lina, is described as "fat" and "slutty". The gorgeous Elisabeth Trissenaar hardly fits that description. Also, in the novel she is not living with Franz as she is in the film.

While I'm not sure it's the approach I'd take, I do think it is an interesting tack and appreciate you sharing any insights you find.

I also thought some of Biberkopf's babes were unrealistically fine (especially Ida, Eva and Lina). Franze is more what you'd expect an unemployed-ex-con-who-drinks to wind up with.

[markhax]

While I'm not sure it's the approach I'd take, I do think it is an interesting tack and appreciate you sharing any insights you find.

I also thought some of Biberkopf's babes were unrealistically fine (especially Ida, Eva and Lina). Franze is more what you'd expect an unemployed-ex-con-who-drinks to wind up with.

I certainly don't recommend this as the ideal way to watch a film based on a work of literature. But I read the novel this summer in eager anticipation of the DVD release so, inevitably, I am interested in the choices Fassbinder made in adapting his favorite German novel and what that reveals about his own reading of it.

I am the last one to fetishize fidelity to the literary source. However, I am fascinated by the issue of cinematic adaptations of novels. (Fassbinder's 'Fontane Effi Briest', in which he is scrupulously faithful to Fontane's language, in which he has the actors speak the lines as if reciting them, is a favorite in this regard, as is Rohmer's 'Marquise of O'). I think these comparisons are one way to get inside of the head of the filmmaker and the process of artistic choices in adapting a story to another medium.

[GringoTex]

Finished it yesterday and still awestruck. Never knew such an epic could be painted with such a fine brush. It's the history of Germany disguised as a chamber psychodrama. It's like Fassbinder filmed the whole thing underwater, but using some previously undiscovered element instead of water.

I waited 24 hours between Episode 13 and The Epilogue, and I'm glad I did. They are two separate films. They're not a unified work. The Epilogue is Fassbinder's "documentary" on the making of Berlin Alexanderplatz.

I tried to watch the Jutzi version this morning but had to stop. The real locations were interesting but the whole thing was coming off like a Saturday Night Live parody skit to me, which I'm sure is not what Jutzi intended. I'll try to revisit it a few months down the road after Fassbinder's hotray vision has worn off a little.

[GringoTex]

(Was Fassbinder aware of or had he seen the Jutzi version?)

Per the Criterion booklet, Fassbinder saw the Jutzi version and said that it was a fine enough film but had nothing to do with the book.

[zedz]

Finished it yesterday and still awestruck. Never knew such an epic could be painted with such a fine brush. It's the history of Germany disguised as a chamber psychodrama. It's like Fassbinder filmed the whole thing underwater, but using some previously undiscovered element instead of water.

I had a similar reaction when I first saw the film (well, maybe not the underwater bit), though I saw it in two massive chunks on consecutive days (and then again, almost immediately). I'm glad to see it had the same immersive effect taken piece by piece.

[Lemmy Caution]

It's like Fassbinder filmed the whole thing underwater, but using some previously undiscovered element instead of water.

Maybe that explains the very deliberate pace. I made it through 10 episodes but had to take a break. I consider myself a Fassbinder fan, particularly his late films (13 Moons, Veronika Voss, Marriage of Maria Braun), and even enjoyed one full episode of Berlin Alexanderplatz and parts of two others when it was aired on PBS back in 1981. But I have had a rather mixed reaction to Fassbinder's full BA.

The story maintains a very slow pace for the early episodes, while most of it comes across very much as a stage play. Few characters at a time, limited interior locations, monologues, characters' voicing their thoughts, pauses at dramatic moments, etc. The lighting, especially in the first four parts, was distracting and got on my nerves --- a yellowish-brown lighting (a sort of sepia effect, I suppose), plus a lot of flashing colored lights from exterior (off set) advertising signs.

I think the long television series format accentuates some tendencies of Fassbinder's into definite flaws, namely his habit of filming in a hurry and his flair for artificial stagy dramas. BA often looks like a television movie and the camera-work is rather perfunctory. Too much of BA seems obvious with the camera directing our attention to an otherwise small detail. The grand gestures combined with repetition of small details bogged down the film for me. I assume that some of this was intentional repetition to refresh memories or to help latecomers.

I liked the casting and the costumes the best. I haven't really got too much out of (or into) the Franz Biberkopf character. As with much of later Fassbinder, the women are more interesting. Hanna Schygulla shines as Eva, the former girlfriend/call-girl who sticks by Biberkopf, which is in many ways a reprise of her Maria Braun from the previous year. I'm really not sure what to make of the odd, childish Mieze character, played by Barbara Sukova.

The acting is good throughout. Gunter Lamprecht plays Franz Biberkopf as a bumbling everyman. And it's nice to see other familiar friends from Fassbinders past (Brigette Mira, Barbara Sukova, Volker Spengler, et al.)

Fassbinder tries a number of techniques in an attempt to convey the collage style of the Doblin novel, but for me these were only partially successful. More often they feel like intrusions or interruptions.

Maybe my overall impression will alter when I finish the last 1/4 of the film. But at this point, I'm looking forward to the Epilogue more than anything else. And then perhaps a re-watching of the Jutzi.

Would be interested to know what others are getting out of Berlin Alexanderplatz and from Franz Biberkopf.