Impressive Impractical Packaging

[kekid]

Within last two weeks I have been exposed to two DVD releases that arrived in disfunctional packaging. In both cases, the producer apparently tried to make them unique and attractive, at the expense of the basic functionality. The items in question are the massive Ford at Fox box and I am Cuba Ultimate Edition.

I expect to enjoy DVD's I buy for a long time. I watch them. I do not put them in a showcase for my friends and neighbors to admire. In order for the DVD's to last, the packaging must provide basic protection. These two premium sets utterly failed to do so.

The DVD's in the Ford at Fox box sit in rubber spindles. They are hard to remove, and harder still to re-insert. After I removed Grapes of Wrath, I simply could not re-insert it. And, by the way, it came badly scratched from the factory. The human or the machine that inserted it in the factory also must have had difficulty.

Amazon refused to replace I am Cuba (the first time in my association with them) because they said an extra-ordinary number of them were returned by consumers as damaged. Flimsly slim cases (slim cases come in different qualities - these were poor) were left uncushioned in an oversized box, and discs often fell out and got scratched.

Some people may admire their aesthetic appeal (certainly the Ford at Fox looks very attractive), but I find this trend appalling. I will have to take out all the Ford DVD's from the box and store them in separate boxes. For a product list-priced at $300 this is ridiculous.

Unfortunately manufacturers do not give us packaging options. I would have liked to buy the Ford at Fox in simpler, more robust packaging. Looking into future, consumers have to buy Blade Runner in the "suitcase" format if they want all content. Completists have to spend a fortune to get disfunctional packaging. (Of course I cannot say that the blade runner packaging is going to have a problem similar to the items I referred to, but I do protest the fact that I do not have a packaging choice.)

On the flip side is Criterion's Eclipse line. I fully understand that this is a mid-priced line, but the packaging does not have to be as flimsy as it is (I am referring to the sleeve). But much has been written on this, and Criterion have seen it fit to ignore the issue.

So I ask for a middle path. Let us have packaging that protects the discs, and is easy to handle. There is no reason why it cannot be made attractive without compromising functionality. In my opinion, all releases of Erureka MoC meet my criteria, and I applaud them for that.

While I have made my case with two specific examples, the subject is general, hence I have posted it here. Moderators, if you feel there is a better place for it, please move it there.

[patrick]

I would have liked to buy the Ford at Fox in simpler, more robust packaging.

You can buy them in individual standard cases (both by the disc and in sets), you just won't get the book or the bonus disc. While it sucks that the Ford at Fox packaging is unwieldy, I think Fox provided plenty of options for consumers.

Looking into future, consumers have to buy Blade Runner in the "suitcase" format if they want all content. Completists have to spend a fortune to get disfunctional packaging.

If I understand the pictures correctly, the DVDs themselves are in a standard "digibook"-type package inside the briefcase, so you can just put that on your shelf and put the briefcase in your closet.

I agree, Milestone's recent packaging is crap. I'm very careful with my DVDs, and packaging that gets worn out/damaged by regular use is simply unacceptable in my book.

[godardslave]

I agree with the original post, this type of packaging is gimmicky and annoying, and impractical. Unfortunately some people fall for it.
Personally, i like nice standard size boxes like Criterion does, so everything can sit together and look neat and matching on the shelf.

[HerrSchreck]

The choices made by Milestone in particular are SOOOO odd to me. It's like these guys went (or are trying to make it look like they went) from kitchen-table hubby-wife small NJ home business, to Sony Pictures overnight. Was it the move from Image to New Yorker? BEYOND THER ROCKS was packaged smart and simple, and was very well done. I just don't "get" the point of this kind of extravagance in arthouse. Because it's financially wasteful and tactically pointless-- no cigarbox thingy is going to make anybody who knows nothing about the flick beforehand pick it up, browse the cover contents in the store, and buy. It's an (relatively) obscure, beautfully shot piece of communist propaganda. I simply don't understand a boutique label which specializes in silents wasting bread on something so utterly pointless and a drain on finances for the next project-- and that's assuming the fucking thing successfully housed the discs during transport. Paying for replacements/potentional redesign is catastrophic for such a small label.

[Musashi219]

I'm glad to see someone else has issues with the Ford at Fox packaging. I ended up with five damaged discs so I complained to Amazon and they sent me a replacement which arrived today. Know how many of those DVDs were scratched? ELEVEN. I don't even understand how it happens considering how tight those rubber tabs are as the discs barely move. So of the five I originally had damaged, I'm now down to two (Drums Along the Mohawk, Judge Priest/Doctor Bull) and I'm just going to cut my losses and deal with it. And so as to not have to deal with those tabs anymore I removed all the DVDs and placed them in my own binder.

Thanks for the warning on the I Am Cuba set. I've been meaning to order it but I keep putting it off. The fact that so many of them were returned to Amazon is rather discouraging so perhaps I'll just hold onto my original Milestone single-disc release.

[domino harvey]

A Milestone producer has responded on our forum to some of these issues.

[HerrSchreck]

Thanks for the warning on the I Am Cuba set. I've been meaning to order it but I keep putting it off. The fact that so many of them were returned to Amazon is rather discouraging so perhaps I'll just hold onto my original Milestone single-disc release.

You and me both. I'm not about to start stalking retail outlets and jiggling their one or two overpriced full-retail boxes of CUBA... security drifting over "Hey pal, what's shaking?"

I'm going to wait and see how this all Shakes Out before I upgrade. I wasn't so displeased by the double-dub on the previous release, and though the transfer wasn't as hd/edge-enhanced looking as the newbie, it sure wasnt any slouch either (and looked quite filmic if you asked me). It will do fine for now. In fact I think I'm gonna pull it out tonight & kick back...

[you gotta be kidding me]

I realize it's frustrating to buy a brand-new product that is damaged, but when people complain about scratched discs, are they saying "there's a scratch" or are they saying "there's a scratch that hinders playback"?

Returning an item for the latter is justifiable; making a stink about the former is just a bunch of "consumer rights" BS.

[HerrSchreck]

just a bunch of "consumer rights" BS.

Now That's Entertainment!

[mmacklem]

I realize it's frustrating to buy a brand-new product that is damaged, but when people complain about scratched discs, are they saying "there's a scratch" or are they saying "there's a scratch that hinders playback"?

Returning an item for the latter is justifiable; making a stink about the former is just a bunch of "consumer rights" BS.

I can't say I agree with this for one important reason at the very least: I've ordered a number of items online where the discs came loose during shipping, and for which the discs were scratched during shipping. However, in many cases the retailer's return policy required the item to not be opened, and thus as a consumer I am forced to err on the side of assuming that the scratches that will result from the discs coming loose will affect playback, since opening the packaging and testing the discs will prevent me from being able to return the item in the case where playback is indeed affected.

(I appreciate that Amazon does take back items where the discs came loose and the packaging has been opened, but this isn't the norm in my experience.)

[Musashi219]

I realize it's frustrating to buy a brand-new product that is damaged, but when people complain about scratched discs, are they saying "there's a scratch" or are they saying "there's a scratch that hinders playback"?

Returning an item for the latter is justifiable; making a stink about the former is just a bunch of "consumer rights" BS.

No, what you're saying is BS. Look at the case of FORD AT FOX. There are 21 discs in that boxset. Considering how many of mine were damaged (and surely others have experienced it) you cannot expect someone who is working/in school/etc on a full-time basis to just sit down after the item arrives and plow through all the scratched discs to just see if something is wrong. Especially when you consider the fact that then said person isn't even watching it to enjoy it - they're merely waiting for the first problem to occur to therefore justify the return. Many of us just dropped hundreds of dollars in the past month during the DVDPlanet and Deep Discount sales, clearly buying DVDs in bulk. I bought a couple dozen DVDs myself during it and have only gotten to a handful of them so far, but I, and others, buy all at once to stock up on future viewing. If something is scratched, I want a new, unblemished copy so I don't have to worry down the road.

It has nothing to do with consumer rights - it's for those of us who are collectors and afficionados and want discs in mint condition so they last over time and don't have to sit there worrying about the DVDs we bought and the problems that MIGHT occur if we don't return them.

EDIT: I should also mention that I buy plenty of used DVDs as well, whether they're from used resell shops or Netflix/Blockbuster. So obviously I have DVDs with scratches on them, but those are situational exceptions.

[HerrSchreck]

Not to mention being put on the spot if a newly arrived but scratched disc potentially exhibits what is to me the still-very-mysterious New Disc Phenom, which is: on it's first couple of go-rounds through the player (and I've experienced this on a number of players.. nonprogressive, progressive, ntsc only, pal/ntsc-allregion, with a number of different brand spanking new discs), the disc starts hosing up & freezing here and there in the player during spots. It's like the reader needs to blaze a trail thru the thing once or twice before it can do it straight thru over and over again without a hitch, which always happens, and the freezeups just stop happening and go away forever on the disc/title. I don't know if it's the excessive anti-static shit, or whatever goes on during factory prep, but I've experienced this from CC's, WB's, Milestone (I remember Tabu years ago, which was I think the first time I experienced this phenom.. I thought the disc was defective, but I stuc with it, made it thru that first day, and the thing has worked perfectly for dozens and dozens of spins over the years without a hitch), Universals, all of them.

Having a dinged up disc outa the box, then potentially experiencing freeze-up... not a scenario that would lead to perseverance. Back in the box it would go bye bye at first glitch.

[godardslave]

any new discs that arrive in the mail give them a quick clean with a cloth, it helps.

[Titus]

I haven't had the same trouble with Ford at Fox. The discs were initially somewhat difficult to take out, but after getting them out once they're pretty easy. The problem I have with it is the front cover doesn't fasten properly -- when sitting it in vertical position, it constantly pops open. Aside from that, I think it's beautiful.

[Tommaso]

Not to mention being put on the spot if a newly arrived but scratched disc potentially exhibits what is to me the still-very-mysterious New Disc Phenom, .

Fascinating, I never heard anybody mention this before, but it's exactly what I have experienced many times, and always thought it was my player. Curiously, I had the perhaps somewhat unsubstantiated feeling that it happened most often with WB discs (as opposed to, e.g. Kino or MoC). But still: after the first play I can't recall any disc that would freeze again when replaying it.

[HerrSchreck]

I too used think originally it was my player, but the second it started happening w new discs at other peoples places & on my old job at NBC-Uni I immediately relaxed about my player. Then I upgraded a few yrs ago to pal/ntsc murderously kickass aussie Pio, which will literally play the top of a tin can of pears in syrup-- I knew it was just some mystery phenom owing to factory prep.

David I think you once posted (you're the only guy I think) about this issue and reccommended terry cloth and windex?

I'm also one of those retards who packs silent / b dvd's in his bag whenh spending the night somewhere, and have seen (in cases where I opened a new disc someplace else) this happen literally everywhere I watch movies.

[Kinsayder]

I backup everything. Literally everything and the copy goes into a plastic sleeve.

I backup all DVD-Rs, using a different brand of media, and any commercial discs that arrive scratched, or would be hard to replace, or show signs of glitchiness. I'm not sure I'd backup up everything to DVD-R, even if I had the time, since DVD-Rs are said to have a shorter lifespan than commercial DVDs anyway.

The worst packaging I've encountered was this mk2 box of 8 discs, arranged on two flat cardboard trays and held in place (ha!) by sharp-edged plastic hubs. Every one of the discs came loose in the post and got scratched to pieces by the packaging. Having said that, they all played OK. In fact, I've only had two discs have been unplayable on arrival, out of several hundreds, including dozens of rental discs.

[HerrSchreck]

I too have been fortunate in this regard, even with the disastrous King of Kings where the booklet-clip broke (everyone dealt w this) and turned the inside of the box into a maelstrom of disc/book/clip plastic.

In fact the only time I ever had to return a disc-- out of a collection, in terms of store bought items, that runs well over a thousand (a full 3 sectioned wall unit, each 7 feet tall and 3 feet wide and bisected by shelves and caddies all devoed to discs now)-- waas Kino's miserable little Liliom... it was bad enough the transfer, but it froze and I examined the thing and the surface was completely pitted with a quarter inch dimple. My only return. But I've been lucky I guess.

O yes and Kino once supplied Kims with copies of Warning Shadows, pre-street-date... Naturally I whipped up the one copy Kims had pre-ordered... took it home and... it was a watercolor painting instructional video inside! (the disc was silkscreened or whatever-printed w Kino & the SHADOWS logo, too!). I Kims and Kino had a great laugh at that one-- it's for the history books.

[fdm]

Halfway through this thread and already:

I guess I won't be checking that Fox At Ford box out after all... was kind of on the fence about it before, but between the packaging and my already having a few of them individually, probably not.

And I will be sending back that replacement copy of I Am Cuba; you've confirmed my suspicions that there's most likely some loose DVDs that are probably in pretty bad shape. I'll wait until something more resilient comes along. Or not.

And now that I've seen what Killer Of Sheep looks like inside... perhaps I will be a little more lenient wtih that fourth copy that was shipped the other day, assuming it arrives in reasonable shape (one of the other three was close).

Shouldn't have to be "settling"... (done enough of that already this year), but at least I am being reminded why I used to avoid at all costs having things shipped to me during the Xmas holiday season.

[ltfontaine]

I realize it's frustrating to buy a brand-new product that is damaged, but when people complain about scratched discs, are they saying "there's a scratch" or are they saying "there's a scratch that hinders playback"?

Returning an item for the latter is justifiable; making a stink about the former is just a bunch of "consumer rights" BS.

No, what you're saying is BS. Look at the case of FORD AT FOX. There are 21 discs in that boxset. Considering how many of mine were damaged (and surely others have experienced it) you cannot expect someone who is working/in school/etc on a full-time basis to just sit down after the item arrives and plow through all the scratched discs to just see if something is wrong. . . If something is scratched, I want a new, unblemished copy so I don't have to worry down the road.

Musashi is right. How can a company invest expense and painstaking care in a product like Ford at Fox, then engineer a package virtually ensuring that the product will reach the consumer in damaged condition?

I hadn't had time until today to open the Barnes and Noble shipping crate, which was more than sufficient to protect the box inside. The set is maybe the most elaborate and one of the most physically beautiful I've ever seen. (Although whether most of the the book might have been better devoted to something more substantial than nicely rendered, unannotated feature and production stills is another matter.) None of the discs being loose, I hoped that my copy might have escaped the damage noted by others. But the discs weren't loose because they had apparently been savagely screwed down onto the too-big rubber posts so that almost every disc bore medium to heavy scratches (the deadly concentric kind).

To object constitutes consumer rights bullshit? Not at these prices or any other, pal.

Don't buy this set in its present state, period. Don't buy it until the necessary packaging adjustments are made to correct this problem and announcements are made to that effect. I'm not advocating that anyone avail themselves of the available means to obtain these films without paying for them, but in the current environment, isn't it incumbent on Fox, not to mention practically expedient, to regroup and correct their error? Those of us who want to buy these DVDs aren't going to settle for a beautiful box of heavily damaged discs.

[Der Müde Tod]

My Ford at Fox box has arrived from B&N almost intact, with only one slightly scratched disk. However, I have put all disks into slim cases, because the
rubber posts are bound to crack the disks from the inside, causing irreparable damage. I believe the intention behind this packaging was to prevent the disks from sliding around. While successful in that, the side effects of the remedy seem to have killed the patient.

The question now is: Where do I get inserts for my 21 slim cases?
I'll probably write to Fox...

[patrick]

I just mentioned this in the Blade Runner thread, but for what it's worth it appears as though Best Buy will have an exclusive version with all 5 discs and no extra packaging.

[fdm]

I just mentioned this in the Blade Runner thread, but for what it's worth it appears as though Best Buy will have an exclusive version with all 5 discs and no extra packaging.

digitalbits has since learnt that Best Buy will be selling (only) the same version as everyone else: "Best Buy basically just posted the artwork for the Digipack that's in the case, rather than the briefcase itself."

[manicsounds]

I didn't buy it but I heard many people had problems getting the discs out.

[Der Müde Tod]

I didn't buy it but I heard many people had problems getting the discs out.

Hilarious. They they should have labeled it uncuttable edition.