Blu-ray, in General

[pro-bassoonist]

The reason I have not posted any additional info but the covers is because I have not read a single review confirming the lack of English audio (I am aware that Mondo do not list them on their site).

And yes, the films come on both formats...I made it clear with the official press-release awhile ago. When more becomes available I will update.

Pro-B

[Rufus T. Firefly]

And yes, the films come on both formats...I made it clear with the official press-release awhile ago.

Can you point me to where you posted this press release info? I have had a look through your posts here and can't find it. Thanks.

[Cobz]

Ok, so blu-ray wise, which DVD player is the best for sound and picture,

Ive read a lot about the Panasonic DMP-BD10A but heard so so reviews regarding sound.

What too choose?

[Luke M]

You want a PS3. It's not even debatable. Get a PS3 or nothing.

[patrick]

Are there any real reasons not to go with a PS3, even if you don't care about playing video games?

[Antoine Doinel]

Michael Bay claims Microsoft is intentionally continuing and funding the format war by throwing money at the studios for HD-DVD exclusive releases.

[fdm]

Ok, so blu-ray wise, which DVD player is the best for sound and picture,

Ive read a lot about the Panasonic DMP-BD10A but heard so so reviews regarding sound.

What too choose?

I dunno, I don't think it sounds bad at all... perhaps it's the lack of built-in conversion of DTS HD-MA (it only passes the DTS core as bitstream) that you're hearing about... haven't watched but maybe one or two of those anyway (and on my old receiver); sounded fine to me (although I don't think I've quite got my subwoofer in sync with it). My receiver does not do HDMI 1.3 (nor does the DMP-BD10A), but is does great with PCM/HDMI 1.1, so likely it will be a really long time before I ever even hear what DTS HD-MA sounds like (if ever).

A lot depends on what you are hooking it up to and how... I recall there is some limitation wrt the PS3 (maybe it doesn't decode to analog fully or some such thing (5 channels maybe?)). I dunno, I just do 5, so... (the 10A does support 7 if I ever get around to experimenting).

"PS3 or nothing" is bullshit, but it probably is the safest route to go regarding price and features, and its ultimate upgradability to the blu-ray final endgame; it has all of the hardware in place to evolve as Sony's firmware evolves, and is probably the fastest. The Panasonics 10s are fairly peppy, though, and quite stable, as opposed to most/all of the others which are, from what I've read, rather slow and/or buggy (including the other non-PS3 Sonys).

Latest/greatest products may have improved somewhat, but probably should check avsforum; amazon user comments are often revealing as well (they're why I decided to try out the Panasonic - plus the 5 free in the box (may no longer be so) and the 5 free via rebate (always something like that going on)). Panasonic BDP-10A will be stuck at profile 1.0 forever, which may/not be important to you; wasn't to me. And the rest of its features are at the same level as the rest of my system, which is nothing to sneeze at.

Michael Bay claims Microsoft is intentionally continuing and funding the format war by throwing money at the studios for HD-DVD exclusive releases.

Words to this effect were uttered by a Microsoft person a few months back; they want (their) digital downloads to ultimately prevail, and confusion to reign in the meantime so that neither format "wins" (i.e., takes hold). [Although they've denied directly doing the money throwing to the studios.]

[barrym71]

Are there any real reasons not to go with a PS3, even if you don't care about playing video games?

Some people take exception to the way the PS3 looks in their home theater (compared to other components).

My only reservation about the PS3 is the lack of multichannel analog audio outputs (I don't have an HDMI receiver). As others have said, it represents the most full-featured Blu-ray solution at the best price point.

[fdm]

Example of Panasonic BD10-A stability vs other machines (from digitalbits.com): "A few readers have e-mailed us this evening to report having trouble getting Disney's new Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End Blu-ray Disc disc to work on Sony's PlayStation 3. Apparently, it sometimes hangs after the trailers as it's trying to load the menus. The disc works just fine on the Panasonic BD-10A here in the office"...

[Luke M]

Why would you spend a good chunk of change on a blu-ray player that won't be able to play a lot of different extra features on releases next year? I like to think my PS3 will be able to play everything on blu-ray discs for the next few years, especially if blu-ray wins and becomes the dominant format for the next decade or so.

[fdm]

Why would you spend a good chunk of change on a blu-ray player that won't be able to play a lot of different extra features on releases next year? I like to think my PS3 will be able to play everything on blu-ray discs for the next few years, especially if blu-ray wins and becomes the dominant format for the next decade or so.

Why not? Not all that much really, cost me more to upgrade my receiver to be fully compatible with it than the player itself cost. Cost me way way more to replace my TV that broke last Xmas. But now all of my hardware upgrades are done for quite a while. [Except I may have to switch to small dish before too long, depending on what remains on big dish.]

[If I was into gaming, I probably would have gone PS3, but I have no interest. And my impression at the time was that the Panasonic "just worked". Kinda like my Mac. And I'm still to this day reading things similar to my post above: Sony or LG or Sharp or Samsung choke on the latest release, the Panasonic has no problems with it. Hopefully this will remain the case for a while.]

[Antoine Doinel]

From IMDB:

Even On Biggest Day, Hi-def Players Can't Beat Ordinary DVD

Putting those reports of huge sales of high-definition video players on Black Friday in perspective, Video Business magazine said on its website Friday that while 57,000 HD DVD and Blu-ray players were indeed sold the day after Thanksgiving, 600,000 standard definition DVD players were sold on the same day. The trade magazine, citing research by market analyst DisplaySearch, also observed that while 62 percent of the high-definition players sold on that day were in the HD DVD format (largely as a result of a $99 one-day only deal initiated by Wal Mart), Blu-ray players, because of their higher costs, accounted for 52 percent of the total revenue.

[souvenir]

From DVD Beaver:

NOTE: Tartan's Blu-ray DVD of Bergman's The Seventh Seal is actually region-coded (contrary to how it was advertised). It will not play on North American Blu-ray players.

Edit - now it says:

APOLOGIES OUR MISTAKE: Tartan's Blu-ray DVD of Bergman's The Seventh Seal is NOT region-coded (just as advertised). It will play on North American Blu-ray players. The cover on Amazon.UK is inaccurate - the DVD appears as it does in the left image and our review is coming shortly.

[Luke M]

From DVD Beaver:

NOTE: Tartan's Blu-ray DVD of Bergman's The Seventh Seal is actually region-coded (contrary to how it was advertised). It will not play on North American Blu-ray players.

Wow, that really, really sucks if true. I paid $40 something for it.

Edit-> Has made a retraction and the The Seventh Seal is NOT region coded.

[Antoine Doinel]

Not sure how much this is going to start playing into the format wars, but I work at a large B2B computer reseller, and one of our partners is now offering Blu-Ray archiving solutions. I haven't seen anything (yet) coming from the HD side.

[jedgeco]

While I was having my HD E1 modded for Region Free last night by the gent who invented the FW upgrades, I was quietly told (Although it's already becoming obvious) Warners will be announcing early in the New Year they are going HD DVD exclusive.

If I might ask, who is your source and why would he know? And why is it "already becoming obvious" WB would go red?

Speculation has been on what WB might do for the past 2 weeks after Businessweek published its story with (anonymous) WB insiders suggesting that WB would go Blue exclusive.

If only BluRay would go region free for HD there would be no issue, for me at least, but they never will.

Incidentally, BD requires that region coding end a year after the title's been on the market. So, worst case scenario, you wait a year before you can buy a title.

[jedgeco]

Incidentally, BD requires that region coding end a year after the title's been on the market. So, worst case scenario, you wait a year before you can buy a title.

Ive never seen this mentioned before. Where can it be verified? As you well know A/B region coding (even though it is not being applied very often) is the major stumbling block for the sorts of cinephiles and collectors who read this forum.

I don't know off-hand where it can be verified, per se; it's just one of those bits of info picked up along the way. As evidence, however, I'd point you to the recent Pixar releases; IIRC, Cars (which has been on the market for a year) is not region coded, while Ratatoullie is.

As for Warners wait for the New Year. Earlier this week Warner's advertised December 19 release date in Oz for Blade Runner HD and BD was "postponed". As of today the HD DVD version is on line for today (although who would know what the fuck with warners Australia) while the BD is posponed indefinitely. The New Year announcement story comes from two sources neither of whom I can reveal. One works for Toshiba the other works for Warner. The decisison frankly surprises me as well. And I dont see it as in any way preciptating a showdown, as I said before.

Bladerunner BD is here in the states, although WB has been having serious distribution issues with all of its discs. Frankly, I can't see why if WB is going exclusive, it would go HD; going blue is a game-changing move while going red will stagnate the market. My fear is that WB going HD-only is a vote of "no confidence" in high-def discs generally.

That being said, since 90% of my Blu-rays are WB, if Warner goes red, I do too.

[subliminac]

I think at this point the only way there's any hope of a resolution (save for both formats dying out and downloadable content taking over), is with an affordable dual format player. One box that can play everything, old and new, is the only way HD disks will ever catch steam. Right now there's too much confusion, too much at stake to invest in that which may soon be obsolete. Take it out of the hands of these bastards, and let the consumer decide. And for that matter let the production houses decide based on the merits of one over the other (whether it be disk capacity, any perceived differences in image and sound quality, or manufacturing costs), rather than simply trying to hedge their bets over which format is here to stay. With all the truly adventurous companies sitting out and waiting on the sidelines while the behemoths duke it out, its hard to get all too excited about this technology.

I just wish with all the wonderful stuff appearing on DVD (films I thought were too hopelessly obscure to ever receive wide distribution and several practically every month) that we would see HD disks released in tandem with them. Don't most companies create or purchase an HD master from which to source their DVDs? Perhaps internet distribution could in some way make this feasible. The SDs pay the bills while the cineastes (who are used to having disks shipped to them from all around the world anyway) order direct, cutting down on overhead, at least until HD finally takes off. In my dream world at least, anyway.

Appears there is some promise though, with the Samsung Dual-format coming out shorty, as well as a very nice LG BR/HD DVD Rom drive which can be had for only about $300.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Warners will be announcing early in the New Year they are going HD DVD exclusive

This rumour has been around for a while, as has the rumour that they are going BD exclusive. This is something to be disbelieved until it actually happens, if it ever does.

The download option with single burn ownership encryption is clearly the future but currently the speeds (and probably compression codecs) aren't there to make it feasible. Yet.

I hope this doesn't happen while Oz broadband plans are capped and far more expensive than in the US or Asia. To download a single-layer HD disc would for me mean a download longer than 12 hours and a quarter of my monthly data allowance.

It also should be added none of the new gen players (either format) can play things like divX or, say SVCD.

Not strictly true. The PS3 plays MP4 and MPEG-1, and a software upgrade has just been released which will enable it to play DivX and WMA.

[patrick]

I believe the WB rumors are due to them letting their BR license expire, but as far as I can tell it basically means nothing - WB still says they're dedicated to releasing on both formats, and new WB product is still coming out on Blu-Ray (including big holiday titles like Harry Potter and Blade Runner).

A lot of people saw "WB lets their BR license expire" and decided that it meant that WB doesn't want to support the format (because of the apparent "superiority" of HD-DVD - I'm not trying to malign the format but most of the reasons people give for why WB would want to be HD-DVD exclusive don't seem to have a lot of thought behind them and focus on shit like picture-in-picture technology). It's basically the same story as when that Sony exec talked about the format war being a stalemate and the HD-DVD camp turned it into "Sony is admitting defeat in the format war."

I don't see why WB would want to abandon their "neutral" status at the moment unless they really have no confidence in one of the formats - would Toshiba or Sony really be able to pay them enough to basically kiss one stream of revenue goodbye? But I agree that WB has more weight in the high-def world than pretty much any other company, at least among cinephiles - if they go with Blu-Ray I think HD-DVD is pretty much done, and if they go with HD-DVD then this thing is going to drag on for a few more years.

[Antoine Doinel]

Example of Panasonic BD10-A stability vs other machines (from digitalbits.com): "A few readers have e-mailed us this evening to report having trouble getting Disney's new Pirates of the Caribbean: At World's End Blu-ray Disc disc to work on Sony's PlayStation 3. Apparently, it sometimes hangs after the trailers as it's trying to load the menus. The disc works just fine on the Panasonic BD-10A here in the office"...

This isn't the only problem. From IMDB:

'Pirates' Recall

In what amounts to a recall of its high-definition Blu-ray edition of Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, Disney has informed purchasers that it will replace the discs with ones that correct a framing problem. The website High-Def Disc News reported that the framing problems "wreaked havoc with the film's intended compositions." According to the website, replacements have been pressed and will be shipped free to consumers requesting them within two business days. Those wishing replacements were advised to call Disney's customer service line at 800-723-4763.

[jedgeco]

This isn't the only problem. From IMDB:

'Pirates' Recall

In what amounts to a recall of its high-definition Blu-ray edition of Pirates of the Caribbean: The Curse of the Black Pearl, Disney has informed purchasers that it will replace the discs with ones that correct a framing problem. The website High-Def Disc News reported that the framing problems "wreaked havoc with the film's intended compositions." According to the website, replacements have been pressed and will be shipped free to consumers requesting them within two business days. Those wishing replacements were advised to call Disney's customer service line at 800-723-4763.

This is a Disney problem (i.e., telecine operator asleep at the wheel), not a format problem.

I don't know off-hand where it can be verified, per se; it's just one of those bits of info picked up along the way. As evidence, however, I'd point you to the recent Pixar releases; IIRC, Cars (which has been on the market for a year) is not region coded, while Ratatoullie is.

BTW, I confirmed last night that this is true.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

I don't know off-hand where it can be verified, per se; it's just one of those bits of info picked up along the way. As evidence, however, I'd point you to the recent Pixar releases; IIRC, Cars (which has been on the market for a year) is not region coded, while Ratatoullie is.

BTW, I confirmed last night that this is true.

The only information I have been able to track down on this suggests that the BD license mandates that any re-release or re-pressing of a title more than one year after its initial release on BD must not have RPC enabled. However this information is on internet forums, so it is by nature dubious. The BD licensing information does not seem to be accessible from the official website (without paying through the nose for it).

Your example does not hold water, as the Cars BD was released on 6 Nov 2007 and has not been out for 12 months. If by "on the market for a year" you mean in any format, then please explain why Fox catalogue titles are region coded.

So what is your source for this confirmation?

[Matt]

No biting or scratching and keep it above the belt, guys...

(January 4, 2008 – Burbank, CA) – In response to consumer demand, Warner Bros. Entertainment will release its high-definition DVD titles exclusively in the Blu-ray disc format beginning later this year, it was announced today by Barry Meyer, Chairman & CEO, Warner Bros. and Kevin Tsujihara, President, Warner Bros. Home Entertainment Group.

"Warner Bros.' move to exclusively release in the Blu-ray disc format is a strategic decision focused on the long term and the most direct way to give consumers what they want," said Meyer. "The window of opportunity for high-definition DVD could be missed if format confusion continues to linger. We believe that exclusively distributing in Blu-ray will further the potential for mass market success and ultimately benefit retailers, producers, and most importantly, consumers."

Warner Home Video will continue to release its titles in standard DVD format and Blu-ray. After a short window following their standard DVD and Blu-ray releases, all new titles will continue to be released in HD DVD until the end of May 2008.
"Warner Bros. has produced in both high-definition formats in an effort to provide consumer choice, foster mainstream adoption and drive down hardware prices," said Jeff Bewkes, President and Chief Executive Officer, Time Warner Inc., the parent company of Warner Bros. Entertainment. "Today's decision by Warner Bros. to distribute in a single format comes at the right time and is the best decision both for consumers and Time Warner."

"A two-format landscape has led to consumer confusion and indifference toward high definition, which has kept the technology from reaching mass adoption and becoming the important revenue stream that it can be for the industry," said Tsujihara. "Consumers have clearly chosen Blu-ray, and we believe that recognizing this preference is the right step in making this great home entertainment experience accessible to the widest possible audience. Warner Bros. has worked very closely with the Toshiba Corporation in promoting high definition media and we have enormous respect for their efforts. We look forward to working with them on other projects in the future."

source

[Antoine Doinel]

I hope this ends this excrutiating "war" once and for all and we see a plethora of Blu-Ray players under $200 by the summer.