Blu-ray, in General

[colinr0380]

Hitler has conceded the defeat of HD-DVD.

Well, they say history has a habit of repeating itself!

[cdnchris]

"Blades of Glory! Are you fucking kidding me!?"

"All those without standalone HD DVD players can leave the room."

"Don't worry. Bill Hunt would never do that."

Priceless. I usually hate stuff like that but that was actually funny.

[domino harvey]

That was really well-synced to the clip, very nice.

[Walter]

Blu-ray may have taken a commanding lead in the next-generation format war, but the group has a big problem looming: early supporters of the format will be left out in the cold when the Blu-ray Disc Association introduces BD Profile 2.0

Unlike HD DVD, which mandated features such as local storage, a second video and audio decoder for picture-in-picture, and a network connection from the very beginning, the companies behind Blu-ray took a different approach. Initial hardware players lacked these capabilities in order to keep costs down.

More at link.

[THX1378]

"Don't worry. Bill Hunt would never do that." I loved that line. I gave up reading The Bits months ago when it became clear that they were going to be bias in this format war, and that the rumor was that they were given PS3's for free if they would speak in favor of blu ray.

[Darth Lavender]

In theory, that could be a major asset for bluray (no internet connection on 1.0 models, means no internet update. That should mean that you can't be expected to upload newer versions with more copy/region protection.
What I think will really happen (and the reaction will interest me) is that Sony will eventually insist on internet updates anyway, which will render older 1.0, etc. profile players incapable of playing newer discs at all (not just incapable of some special features)

Meanwhile, seems Toshiba is pushing ahead with HDDVD (so no more chance of ultra-cheap discs for a while.) Their theory, and I think it has a (small) chance, is to release ultra-cheap players and emphasise the upscaling capability. If there's enough consumers with HD televisions and standard DVD players, that *could* actually sell quite well.

I think HDDVD is going to be, at least, back to being a legitimate possibility for another six months or more.

[The Invunche]

Blu-ray may have taken a commanding lead in the next-generation format war, but the group has a big problem looming: early supporters of the format will be left out in the cold when the Blu-ray Disc Association introduces BD Profile 2.0

Not all early supporters are fucked. The PS3 will be software upgraded to conform with BD 2.0.

"Don't worry. Bill Hunt would never do that." I loved that line. I gave up reading The Bits months ago when it became clear that they were going to be bias in this format war, and that the rumor was that they were given PS3's for free if they would speak in favor of blu ray.

Oh come on. Those rumors are quite retarded. The Bits have always argued pretty intelligently for their point of view on the format war. Don't be mad at them for disagreeing with you.

[Rich Malloy]

Newbie sorta question about BD-Live and the upcoming Panny D50 that sports it... should I give a damn? And, if so, should I be concerned about implementation? In short, does anybody see a good reason to wait for the Panny-50?

From what I've read, nothing about BD-live strikes me as must-have. Perhaps this technology can be put to good and interesting use, but rarely do content-providers actually make such good use. Can anybody suggest otherwise? Am I missing something super special about BD-Live capabilities?

On the second point, the upcoming Panny that sports BD-live may be as glitchy in its application as any of the first-gen players were. Assuming there's anything about BD-live that strikes me as worth waiting for, does anyone think it would actually be well-implemented in light of Panny's fairly decent implemention of BD (apparently a whole lot less glitchy than Sony's)?

Finally, is there an expectation of any signficant amount of media in the short-term taking advantage of any potentially interesting uses of the technology?

[Gigi M.]

Newbie sorta question about BD-Live and the upcoming Panny D50 that sports it... should I give a damn? And, if so, should I be concerned about implementation? In short, does anybody see a good reason to wait for the Panny-50?

From what I've read, nothing about BD-live strikes me as must-have. Perhaps this technology can be put to good and interesting use, but rarely do content-providers actually make such good use. Can anybody suggest otherwise? Am I missing something super special about BD-Live capabilities?

On the second point, the upcoming Panny that sports BD-live may be as glitchy in its application as any of the first-gen players were. Assuming there's anything about BD-live that strikes me as worth waiting for, does anyone think it would actually be well-implemented in light of Panny's fairly decent implemention of BD (apparently a whole lot less glitchy than Sony's)?

Finally, is there an expectation of any signficant amount of media in the short-term taking advantage of any potentially interesting uses of the technology?

Just a PS3 and you'd fine. Besides is the best Blu player around and its fun to use.

2001 BR Vs. 2001 SD

[davebert]

Indeed, I think it's kind of funny that the PS3, which by all means should be the value-line introduction to the medium, is turning out to be one of the more advanced workhorses. Not to mention that you'll get to play Uncharted, Rachet and Clank, Resistance... and... that's about it. But hey! 2008 is looking like it could be a really strong year for the system, and it can always play Blu-Rays when there's nothing else around.

[Donald Brown]

Newbie sorta question about BD-Live and the upcoming Panny D50 that sports it... should I give a damn? And, if so, should I be concerned about implementation? In short, does anybody see a good reason to wait for the Panny-50?

From what I've read, nothing about BD-live strikes me as must-have. Perhaps this technology can be put to good and interesting use, but rarely do content-providers actually make such good use. Can anybody suggest otherwise? Am I missing something super special about BD-Live capabilities?

BD-Live allows access to what sounds like nothing more than very gimmicky internet-dependent special features. I can't imagine any purposeful use being made of it, but who knows?

[Rich Malloy]

Just a PS3 and you'd fine. Besides is the best Blu player around and its fun to use.

You seem to be a great sorta guy, but I just don't know you well enough to simply adopt your opinion on this! My tiny bit of research indicates that the video quality of the Panny BD30 is considered to be noticeably better than the PS3. If it's the 2.0 firmware upgrade/BD-live thing, then someone will have to make a case for why I should care about this - so far, it seems to support precisely the sort of features that I'd likely avoid (or, at least, wouldn't matter to me). This, combined with the complaints about fan-noise/loud operation on the PS3, makes me think that I'd prefer the better video quality and quieter performance of the Panny... unless I'm missing something specific about the superiority of the PS3.*

*I should add that even brief play of video games leaves me feeling dazed and stupid. I wouldn't be into that either.

[denti alligator]

I don't see how a standalone BD player could have better (or worse) image quality than the PS3. Can you provide evidence of this?

[Gigi M.]

This, combined with the complaints about fan-noise/loud operation on the PS3, makes me think that I'd prefer the better video quality and quieter performance of the Panny... unless I'm missing something specific about the superiority of the PS3.*

*I should add that even brief play of video games leaves me feeling dazed and stupid. I wouldn't be into that either.

That's completely true. The PS3 can be loud sometimes, but compare to other Blu players I've seen (like the Panny), it's much faster and a very well made machine. If you're going to be concern about the fan noise, don't get this unit. On the other hand, the PS3 puts out an incredible picture. Don't know if it's better than Panny (since haven’t compare the two side by side), but with all the extra features (gaming console, internet browser, hard drive, etc) plus an incredible Bluetooth remote for basically at the same price, I'd definitely go with a PS3. That’s just me.[/quote]
Edit: Not to mention wireless conection for *always* future updates!!!

[Darth Lavender]

Although this may not apply to American & Japanese prices (which seem to be a lot more reasonable,) I would still seriously recommend my own set-up for anyone looking to get into HD. A $200 HDDVD drive (assuming your computer is powerful enough,) you can add a Bluray drive later (once the prices come down) and both drives would still end up costing less than a PS3 (those things are something like $1000 in Australia ) Upscaling is excellent on a computer, it's about as 'future proof' as can be, and while you're waiting for a reasonably-priced Bluray drive, you can play all the HDDVD classics that won't be on Bluray for a while.
Even in America or Japan, I'd still seriously recommend getting a new computer and a drive (HDDVD or Bluray or both, depending on price) rather than a stand-alone model.

Meanwhile, though, a bit of a negative for HDDVD; looks like Paramount and especially Universal have managed to botch up their two biggest titles...

- Beowulf is *not* in 3D. In and of itself, that doesn't bother me so much. What bothers me is that with HD's greater efficiency for 3D movies, it raises the distinct possibility of a double-dip (remember what these folks did with the Star Trek movies?)

- American Gangster presents only the 'theatrical cut' in High Definition. The director's cut is being presented on the reverse side in Standard Definition, and frankly I don't much like the idea of only being able to watch the movie uncut *or* in HD.

[fdm]

Just a PS3 and you'd fine. Besides is the best Blu player around and its fun to use.

You seem to be a great sorta guy, but I just don't know you well enough to simply adopt your opinion on this! My tiny bit of research indicates that the video quality of the Panny BD30 is considered to be noticeably better than the PS3. If it's the 2.0 firmware upgrade/BD-live thing, then someone will have to make a case for why I should care about this - so far, it seems to support precisely the sort of features that I'd likely avoid (or, at least, wouldn't matter to me). This, combined with the complaints about fan-noise/loud operation on the PS3, makes me think that I'd prefer the better video quality and quieter performance of the Panny... unless I'm missing something specific about the superiority of the PS3.*

*I should add that even brief play of video games leaves me feeling dazed and stupid. I wouldn't be into that either.

Sounds just like me. Now I recall (part of) why I went with the Panny 10A - the fan noise. My Sony rear projection TV makes enough fan noise that I didn't want to add to it (if I were to set it to the high altitude setting like it's allegedly supposed to, I wouldn't be able to hear much of anything during the quiet parts).

And the 10A has been pretty close to bulletproof (as I posted one or three moons ago, and probably more than once), which had been noted by others at the time I was looking. The picture is pretty decent - no complaints (I don't use it for DVDs, and probably would have nits to pick with that); I think it's been ranked above the Sonys as well. Not quite PS3 speeds, but most of the time it's fairly snappy (much much better than I'd dreaded). It's shortcoming for me (and not much of one really) is that it only extracts the DTS core for DTS HD MA encoded soundtracks.

The Panny 30 offers more modern capabilities, taking it up to Profile 1.1 (don't really care), and passes all the hi-def audio formats out so they can be decoded by your receiver (your receiver has to be of pretty recent origin to be able to do this, else you are stuck with downconverted audio - I think this applies to both the digital and analog output, assuming both exist). Not suggested if you have an older a/v receiver/pre-amp; you do want that hi-def sound too. I believe I've read where it is a bitter quicker than, and has somewhat better video than the 10.

The to-be-released fairly soon Panny 50 seems to be a combo of the 10 and the 30, adding internal decoding of all the different sound formats as well as the capability of passing them all out undecoded in case your receiver/pre-amp can handle that. So it would seem to be the all-singing all-dancing BD player that it really would have been nice if it had been available a year ago. [No doubt other things will be tweeked too.] Were I without a BR player, I would be waiting for this one. (It will support Profile 2.0.)

Sorry to be sounding like a Panasonic shill, but they seem to be on the ball the most at this point in terms of standalone units.

[Donald Brown]

The PS3 is whisper quiet. I don't who's complaining about its fan noise. I'm also unaware of any reviews claiming the Panny has BD picture quality superior to the PS3.

That said, there's no reason not to get the Panny if all one wants is an excellent DVD and BD player. They should be comparable in all important areas concerning Blu-ray playback, while the PS3s gaming and other capabilities are a nice bonus, but only to those interested in such things. One can't go wrong with either machine.

[fdm]

The PS3 is whisper quiet. I don't who's complaining about its fan noise. I'm also unaware of any reviews claiming the Panny has BD picture quality superior to the PS3.

That said, there's no reason not to get the Panny if all one wants is an excellent DVD and BD player. They should be comparable in all important areas concerning Blu-ray playback, while the PS3s gaming and other capabilities are a nice bonus, but only to those interested in such things. One can't go wrong with either machine.

I have a computer that's allegedly whisper quiet too. Bugs the hell out of me. (Some people are more sensitive to (certain) noise(s) than others... the Toshiba XA2's fan is definitely in the just a bit too loud category...)

[Donald Brown]

Do you have a PS3? I do, and never hear it. It is every bit as quiet as all my other components. Suggesting it's as loud as a computer's fan is absurd. You may be able to hear it if it's the only thing on in your home and you have your ear pressed against the back of it.

[Gigi M.]

Do you have a PS3? I do, and never hear it. It is every bit as quiet as all my other components. Suggesting it's as loud as a computer's fan is absurd. You may be able to hear it if it's the only thing on in your home and you have your ear pressed against the back of it.

Pardon me Donald, but I'm afraid he's right. My PS3 every hour or so, sounds like is about to explode.

[Donald Brown]

Then I recommend you get it serviced.

[Gigi M.]

Then I recommend you get it serviced.

I think is because I have it place on top off my receiver and is not getting much air. A couple of friends of mine also have the same problem, so who knows. Anyway, it doesn't bother me at all since I always have the volume so load that I don't even hear it.

["membrillo"]

I don't see how a standalone BD player could have better (or worse) image quality than the PS3. Can you provide evidence of this?

I dont think it can either. If you are noticing a difference in PQ with HD material there is something wrong in your setup.

Now if you are talking about upconversion of SD material thats a while different story.

[fdm]

[quote=""membrillo""]

I don't see how a standalone BD player could have better (or worse) image quality than the PS3. Can you provide evidence of this?

I dont think it can either. If you are noticing a difference in PQ with HD material there is something wrong in your setup.

Now if you are talking about upconversion of SD material thats a while different story.[/quote]
So just plug in any old BD/HD player and everything ends up looking identical? Find that a bit hard to believe. (Mostly being devil's advocate here, by the way: the first BD player had some pretty serious PQ issues as I recall; until the PS3 came out next to show that it wasn't BD's fault, but rather just that first player's.)

3:2 pulldown, 1080p/24 vs 1080p/60, various video filters thrown into the mix (either adjustable ones or ones that may be just built in and can't be switched off before your bits get passed to your TV), none of these things would make any difference?

Granted they may result in negligible differences (or debatable regarding which is better than which), but nonetheless I doubt PQ is identical from any one player to the next.

And no, I'm sure your PS3s deliver pictures as stunning as many of the standalone players. (And yes, the SD PQ on some of them from what I've read can be pretty abominable too.) But identical most likely not.

[Luke M]

I think if you actually care about very minor details between PQ amongst BD players it would be best to wait for a final spec player.