322 The Complete Mr. Arkadin

[Tribe]

I've never seen this. If the reconstruction that's being talked about here is mostly a series of shots, rather than scenes or major plot-lines....is this just a matter of additional footage that's been found somewhere, but weren't necessarily intended to be part of any cut that Welles made? It sounds like this film was originally the subject of several cuts for different markets. Any info on this anywhere?

And aside from that, is this any good as a film or is it more like The Stranger (I think that was the name....where Welles has this awful looking fake beard and sort of looks like Kenneth Branagh in another bad movie)?

Tribe

[unclehulot]

I've never seen this. If the reconstruction that's being talked about here is mostly a series of shots, rather than scenes or major plot-lines....is this just a matter of additional footage that's been found somewhere, but weren't necessarily intended to be part of any cut that Welles made? It sounds like this film was originally the subject of several cuts for different markets. Any info on this anywhere?

And aside from that, is this any good as a film or is it more like The Stranger (I think that was the name....where Welles has this awful looking fake beard and sort of looks like Kenneth Branagh in another bad movie)?

Tribe

MUCH better than The Stranger!

[Dylan]

For me, as much as I enjoy "The Stranger," it is absolutely Welles' least interesting film (he is doing very little with it visually*, and it does seem more run of the mill than his other films...but it's a solid thriller, and the acting is exquisite).

"Confidential Report" is a far more interesting film. Visually it's astounding, and it was also a dangerously unconventional film for its time (it also inspired many New Wave filmmakers).

Dylan

*well, there was a prelude and a long nightmare sequence that were shot for "The Stranger," but deleted by the producers (as Welles once said, "They cut everything interesting out of the picture"). Those scenes have never been seen again, but I imagine that they would've been very impressive.

[DrewReiber]

"Confidential Report" is a far more interesting film. Visually it's astounding, and it was also a dangerously unconventional film for its time (it also inspired many New Wave filmmakers).

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, at least anywhere that I've seen, but it's pretty obvious that Oliver Stone modeled Wall Street after Confidential Report. I know this probably sound ludicrous, but I was taking a Stone class while simultaneously going through Welles films. Stone's entire filmography is littered with references to Welles (also Citizen Kane and Chimes at Midnight), but the plot structure and relationship between the two main characters in these two films is undoubtedly parallel by choice.

Everything from the initial goal for the small time conman (Sheen) to get into a bigger pie, to the presentation of the Arkadin archetype's mystique (the limousine scene in both movies), to the ending calling for the sacrifice of the lead's relationship (one with ties to the Arkadin archetype) in order to destroy the identity of the "villain" (revealing the criminal means to build an empire) in order to save himself (in this instance his father instead of his life).

[Dylan]

Yeah, I overuse the word masterpiece, but if there are 150 or more films you consider masterpieces, it's hard the avoid the word, particularly when discussing Welles, Bergman, etc.

Welles is probably the most influential of all filmmakers, and his cinematic power and control over the medium is ever apparent and inspiring everytime I view one of his films. Truth be told, I haven't seen a Welles film yet I wouldn't call a masterpiece.

Dylan

[Dylan]

And Drew,

Fascinating comparison of "Confidential Report" and "Wall Street," I would've never thought of it, but you've clearly illustrated the parallels. I'll definitely look out for Wellesian elements next time I watch a Stone film.

Dylan

[Fletch F. Fletch]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet, at least anywhere that I've seen, but it's pretty obvious that Oliver Stone modeled Wall Street after Confidential Report. I know this probably sound ludicrous, but I was taking a Stone class while simultaneously going through Welles films. Stone's entire filmography is littered with references to Welles (also Citizen Kane and Chimes at Midnight), but the plot structure and relationship between the two main characters in these two films is undoubtedly parallel by choice.

Everything from the initial goal for the small time conman (Sheen) to get into a bigger pie, to the presentation of the Arkadin archetype's mystique (the limousine scene in both movies), to the ending calling for the sacrifice of the lead's relationship (one with ties to the Arkadin archetype) in order to destroy the identity of the "villain" (revealing the criminal means to build an empire) in order to save himself (in this instance his father instead of his life).

That is interesting. I always thought that Stone patterned Wall Street after Sweet Smell of Success as there are a lot of parallels between those two films as well.

[Steven H]

Rosenbaum has a bit of a comment here in regards to Droessler's remarks on Criterion's plans (the incendiary post on page 1 in this thread). Non committal, but interesting.

[Cinephrenic]

Would the Richard Cranium award be an understatement?

[Gordon]

It would be a great loss if Droessler's Filmmuseum Muenchen-Cinematheque de Luxembourg reconstruction was not included on Criterion's set. Surely, they will see sense and wait until they have a hi-def transfer of this new 106-minute cut?

Has the Droessler reconstruction been completed yet, or is it still in blueprint form and it needs a 4k (or more) digital restoration?

[Andre Jurieu]

I actually agree with most of what you said, and I absolutely share your distaste for people who automatically assume that any project which the studio questions and re-edits must be a masterpiece in its original form. If that were the case, 54 would have been a classic - which I seriously doubt. However, from the version of Mr. Arkadin which I was able to see about 8 years ago, I have to say that, whatever version it was, it did belong beside the likes of Citizen Kane, Touch of Evil, The Trial, and F For Fake.

I also think the beauty of The Magnificent Ambersons is that it remains compelling and fascinating despite all its mis-steps and re-edits, and most of its flaws are easily attributable to studio re-edits, since they seem so out of place and awkward at times (and yet a few of them are sort of charmingly awkward). A great deal of the mystique surrounding this film is also due to the fact that its alternate version has been documented quite a bit and the mind's eye can't help but imagine what Welles wound have intended it to be.

Of course, then there's The Stranger, which is such a mess from what I remember, I can't imagine how Welles could have improved it.

[jesus the mexican boi]

Of course, then there's The Stranger, which is such a mess from what I remember, I can't imagine how Welles could have improved it.

Welles' THE STRANGER is neither a masterpiece nor a mess but a very entertaining B-picture, which is really all it aspires to be. It's a fun movie. I love watching it. For shots, I love the paper chase sequence, I love the scene in the gym, I love the shot of the town when the bus pulls in. I love Billy House and Constantin Shayne (I think that's who it is). I think Welles is good in his part. Is it shambolic? No. Does it sit beside Kane and Ambersons? Only chronologically. Could Welles have improved it without studio interference? Perhaps, but only if he'd been allowed to cast Agnes Moorehead in the role occupied by Edward G. Robinson. That would have been an interesting picture. Plus, he'd have shot the opening scenes in South America which could have given the first act a wholly different flavor. As it is, I like it a lot, and I'm glad I have the Mastertone DVD which has a very acceptable transfer.

That's not cutting Welles any slack, I don't think.

[cbernard]

Er...Confidential Report IS considered major Welles. It's fucking great.

To be perfectly honest, I think labeling films like The Stranger and Mr. Arkadin 'masterpieces' is insulting to Kane, F for Fake, Touch of Evil, and even The Trial. It's like Orson's self-pitying characters have actually managed to convince the world to overlook any of his own accountability. If people like John Huston, Fritz Lang, Alfred Hitchcock, Sam Fuller and Stanley Kubrick can work in the Hollywood system, and Cassavetes can have the exact career Welles tried later, maybe we should stop blaming everyone other than Welles for his problems.

You're overcompensating as an attack against overcompensating; this is hardly the beginning of an accurate assessment of Welles-in-Hollywood.

Anyway, the Official History of Welles, against which his enthusiasts are constantly fighting, goes like this: Kane Masterpiece, Butchered Ambersons, Downhill Thereafter. Why not jump on the bandwagon against that line of thinking, if you're going to jump on a bandwagon at all?

[cbernard]

By the way, does anyone agree with me that The Stranger is a hell of a film, even if it's not a masterpiece? It's incredibly stylish.

[dx23]

By the way, does anyone agree with me that The Stranger is a hell of a film, even if it's not a masterpiece? It's incredibly stylish.

I agree with you that The Stranger is a great film, although I don't believe is that stylish. Its one of my favorite Welles film, has a great story, great acting and its a great way to get introduced to Orson Welles' films. There is a thread in this forum of The Stranger where there are more people that also like the film.

And by the way, I think we went out of topic, from discussing Confidential Report to debating over Welles rebeliousness and his other films.

[cbernard]

I agree with you that The Stranger is a great film, although I don't believe is that stylish.

Well, it's not as stylish as Branded to Kill or something like that. But it certainly feels like something with Welles' mitts all over it.

In the annals of woulda-coulda-shoulda's, I would love the film more if Agnes Moorehead had played the Edward G. Robinson role, as it had been planned at one point. A spinster Nazi-hunter!

[Fletch F. Fletch]

By the way, does anyone agree with me that The Stranger is a hell of a film, even if it's not a masterpiece? It's incredibly stylish.

I agree. The Stranger is one of my favorite Welles films even if it isn't one of his best.

But on the argument that it's stylish...

The opening sequence where Meinike is released from prison features the use of German Expressionistic lighting (in particular, the use of silhouettes). After Meinike and Wilson arrive in Connecticut, Welles uses a swooping high-angle establishing shot to give a God's-eye-view that anticipates a similar shot at the beginning of Touch of Evil (let's not forget that both films were shot by Russell Metty). Welles also utilizes low-angle shots in a school gymnasium when Meinike gets the upper hand on Wilson.

Not to mention you also have Welles' love of long-takes -- for example, there is a four-minute scene between Meinike and Kindler in the woods without a cut. Nice.

Is it a great film? No. But it certainly isn't his worst.

[THX1378]

I havn't seen the film yet. I've been tring to hunt down a vhs copy but it's been no can do. And does anyone know where I can find the "Seven Arkadins" article about the versions of the film? The IMDB doesn't really give any good info about which version is which, this is all they give

According to Welles scholar, Jonathan Rosembaum, there are numerous versions that he talks about in his article, "Seven Arkadins." Among them:
a version that opens with hanging bats, has two party scenes, flashbacks and is 99 minutes long.
a version that has no bats, one party scene and flashbacks.
a version that has no bats, one party scene and no flashbacks.
a spanish version that opens with a dead body. These versions usually alternate between being titled Mr. Arkadin or Confidential Report.

[ola t]

And does anyone know where I can find the "Seven Arkadins" article about the versions of the film?

It was originally published in the January/February 1992 issue of Film Comment, and reprinted (with some added footnotes) in Rosenbaum's book, "Movies as Politics".

EDITED TO ADD: If you search for the book on Amazon.com and play around a little with the "Search Inside" feature, you could probably manage to read the whole article there.

[Dylan]

This was on TCM tonight in a prestine print with excellent picture and sound (far superior to the Home Vision VHS, which is currently the best-looking NTSC version available now), and it certainly hinted at the DVD quality we can expect from Criterion. And it's also a hell of a fun film (the scene with Millie and Arkadin on the boat is especially impressive).

Dylan

[unclehulot]

This was on TCM tonight in a prestine print with excellent picture and sound (far superior to the Home Vision VHS, which is currently the best-looking NTSC version available now), and it certainly hinted at the DVD quality we can expect from Criterion. And it's also a hell of a fun film (the scene with Millie and Arkadin on the boat is especially impressive).

Dylan

Just popped on the Criterion LD to compare to the TCM broadcast, and even over satellite it looks far better than the LD, with deeper blacks, a more stable image, and a rather different framing (much more information on the right side of the image, a bit at the top, but seemingly about the same framing on the left and bottom). It DOES seem to be exactly that version issued on LD (see the article mentioned above) rather than one of the other (Mr. Arkadin) cuts. I hope Criterion gives us an alternate cut as an extra... well, of course I hope they issue something on this, period!

Janus logo watchers note, The Immortal Story also sported the tell-tale sign of possible Criterion involvement in it's airing as well!

[tryavna]

I saw this last night, too -- for the very first time, in fact. My impression is that it's neither a forgotten masterpiece nor a train wreck. I'd place it comfortably alongside Welles' other minor but entertaining films, like The Stranger and The Lady From Shangai. Perhaps style triumphs somewhat over content, but the globetrotting and the abrupt transition from fast-paced fun to a darker, more cerbral thriller makes this a movie that's easy to engage with. What I find most interesting is that several scenes seem to anticipate Welles' work in Touch of Evil, which I guess he would have begun about 3 years later. The floating stateroom scene has already been mentioned, but the Von Stratton/Arkadin confrontation in Von Stratton's hotel room almost looks like a trial run for the extreme POV angles in the interrogation scene in Touch of Evil.

As Dylan and Unclehulot have remarked, the picture and sound quality was quite nice.

[atcolomb]

I also have the Criterion laserdisc and Laserlight dvd of Confidential Report / Mr. Arkadan and the print TCM used on their broadcast was much sharper with no print damage. The same go to The Immortal Story which i had a poor VHS copy but seeing TCM version was like day and night. Bright picture with good colors....a very good print of a hard to find movie. I also think both will end up on the Criterion label soon and cheers to TCM for showing great movies!

[Titus]

Is it a possibility that The Immortal Story might be thrown in as a bonus on the CR release, similar to the way Linklater's debut was packaged with Slacker? It's only around an hour long and certainly not one of Welles' more important films, so I would guess that this would be it's only shot at seeing the light of day on the DVD format.

[unclehulot]

Is it a possibility that The Immortal Story might be thrown in as a bonus on the CR release, similar to the way Linklater's debut was packaged with Slacker? It's only around an hour long and certainly not one of Welles' more important films, so I would guess that this would be it's only shot at seeing the light of day on the DVD format.

Good guess. Or maybe one of those "Night and Fog" price point titles??