Criterion Blu-ray

[Tommaso]

Darth: On the risk of taking this way off topic (Mods, move this if necessary!), a quick reply, because I tend to agree completely with you about watching 'shocking' films only if there's "overwhelming artistic merit" ("Salo" indeed being the best example, and Jodorowsky's films as well).
But I simply don't find "WR" shocking (not even "Sweet Movie"); on the contrary, I'd say it's a very 'poetical' film, despite its ironies and over-the-top character.
Don't know really... perhaps you have a chance to see it somewhere, or give it a rental. For me, these two films were amongst the greatest discoveries of CC last year, and though I'm a bit more into 'avantgarde/montage stuff', I don't normally like films catering only to my intellect; and these two wouldn't fit into that category for me.

[Luke M]

As for box size: I really, really hope they do NOT go for the smaller, thinner standard Blu case, and instead keep the same size and shape as the SDs. I like Criterion's designs, and I don't really want them to mess with them just for this new format. Put a big blu sticker on 'em.

Ugh, I hope they release them in the blu-ray cases. It seems the studios realized how important shelf space is and made thinner cases the standard. Too bad DVD cases didn't start off the same way. The art work would only shrink marginally on a blu case I wouldn't consider it messing with them.

[Darth Lavender]

Interesting.
Well, you have convinced me to do somemore reading on WR. I might even give the film itself a look one day.

As for Jodorowsky, my reaction there has been somewhat interesting in that the only film of his I really "enjoyed" was Fando y Lis (generally considered his weakest) El Topo and Holy Mountain impressed me with individual moments of creativity (especially loved that ending of Holy Mountain) but overall didn't quite work for me.
Perhaps, if I had to analyze my reactions; El Topo and Holy Mountain felt more like "random surrealism" without any real emotional coherence. Whereas "Fando y Lis," although it presents a variety of moods covering love, hate, guilt, disgust, etc. It's all crafted in a way that fits together, emotionally (just as the characters and themes in a more traditional film will all fit together into a coherent plot)
Anyway, that's just a guess. I only just got around to getting Anchor Bay's Jodorowsky set last year, and I've only actually watched each of the films once, so this is a very cursory appraisal (btw, La Cravatte, I enjoyed. Fun little film, that.)

[kevyip1]

As for box size: I really, really hope they do NOT go for the smaller, thinner standard Blu case, and instead keep the same size and shape as the SDs. I like Criterion's designs, and I don't really want them to mess with them just for this new format. Put a big blu sticker on 'em.

Ugh, I hope they release them in the blu-ray cases. It seems the studios realized how important shelf space is and made thinner cases the standard. Too bad DVD cases didn't start off the same way. The art work would only shrink marginally on a blu case I wouldn't consider it messing with them.

I think it's retailers who want to economize shelf space. The manufacturers, of course, want BIG BOXES to attract attention to their products. But in the retail world, manufacturers have to cater to the demands of the retailers, and retailers want to use as little space as possible for these small-ticket items (books, cd's, videos, etc.). That's why we started to have shrunken computer game boxes a few years back. If Criterion doesn't comply to the retailers' requirements, it can't sell in their stores. Do you think Criterion would rather lose business than ruin the home decor of a few DVD collectors?

[HerrSchreck]

Smaller boxes are totally convenient-- they lower the hieght length and width of The Unwatched Dvd Pile, from "doric column holding up ceiling" to "where'd all the dv-- oh there they are! Look how cyoot and wituw.. (affectionately mess up little pile's hair)".

[domino harvey]

If I start buying Blu-rays, they would surely be grouped separate from my other DVDs, so I would think having the same slim boxes would be ideal but not worth hyperventilating over. I can't imagine Criterion NOT releasing their DVDs in packaging that doesn't somehow include the color blue-- consumers LOOK for the blue tinge to identify a Blu-ray release. Now it could just be a banner on a digipak (like the WB Bonnie and Clyde release), but anyone thinking they're gonna release their titles in a clear, untinted case is nuts.

[Perkins Cobb]

Well, surely Criterion won't bow to any kind of perceived market pressure to create simultaneous SD/BR versions of every release after they "go Blu," will they? That would be a huge waste of resources for a lot of their material, e.g. 30s-40s foreign films where the negative is lost and the surviving elements are in bad shape. Unless that's the hidden point of shifting those kinds of titles toward Eclipse and focusing on newer/cultier titles in the Criterion lately. Hopefully, though, they'll take advantage of their newfound transparency (via the blog, etc.) to be more forthright than the studios have been about why some catalog titles will look good on BluRay and others wouldn't, and be correspondingly judicious in deciding what to release in both.

Also, it's tricky to try and describe Makavejev's style and intent if you've seen his films, and utterly impossible to do so if you haven't. Fer chrissakes.

[HerrSchreck]

I guess I was too deadpan in my reply to kevyip.

[domino harvey]

I guess I was too deadpan in my reply to kevyip.

I didn't even remember who he was until I saw this and thought a minute.

[Doctor Sunshine]

The blue coloured cases were just a gimmick to differentiate blurays from HD DVDs, so I don't think Criterion will bother incorporating that or a spine addendum into their designs. The smaller size and that they'll be in located in bluray sections will be enough to differentiate them from the DVDs. It will be nice for shelf space and even good for the environment in the same way that reducing the number of olives in salads saved whichever airline that was tens of thousands of dollars. It's going to be bad for cover art though. I'm sure part of the reason all the bluray covers have been so terrible is they're rushing to get titles out quickly but it's going to limit even good designers, probably to the same degree as the vinyl to CD transition.

Also, I'm going to chime in in defense of blind buyers, completists and those who organize their Criterions by spine number--which, hypothetically speaking, I've never had any trouble finding anything--hypothetically--who seem to draw the same kind of muted ire here as threateningly good-looking people. Even obsessive compulsives will have started collecting because Criterion does constantly good work and they're happy to support the company. Hypothetically, if I was one of them, I'm sure I would have single-handedly financed a title or two by now with the money I've pumped into the company. Hypothetically, mind you. If they don't like something discs frequently sell for near-MSRP on ebay or maybe they don't like RRSPs and prefer to invest in the hope that the entire collection will go out of print someday.

And I think the announcement was intentionally vague in order to get the kind of speculative frenzy it's got.

[domino harvey]

And I think the announcement was intentionally vague in order to get the kind of speculative frenzy it's got.

Without a doubt. If Criterion answered all these questions we're raising (and they're not stupid, they KNEW we'd ask these questions), there would be less discussion afoot. This was a brilliant move on their part, I doubt we hear anything for a while.

[denti alligator]

Since the dimensions of a Blu-ray case are different from regular ol' amrays I would suspect that Criterion would not want to use them, since this would require creating alternate artwork, which I kinda doubt they're willing to do, or?

I'm one of those who puts them in the spine number order on my shelf, and I never have trouble finding the title I'm looking for. I'd like them to keep a similar style case so that when I replace SD with BD versions my shelf won't look much different.

If they go with a new look then I should probably do what I ought to have done ages ago, which is to re-organize my collection by director.

[HerrSchreck]

It's true the white noise of chatter is unbelieveable.. it's upped the fanboy quotient of this site a thousandfold. People are growing ripe & tumescent, and are creating accounts just to jump in & swim free in the technospeak seas.

How brilliant the move is is yet to be seen of course. I doubt it will be as propitious as their move to dvd, which was timed so perfectly that they became the benchmark of the medium from thence forward. Here they're moving in steps behind other companies, and carrying the huge freight of their sd line (which can't be dropped like a stone like LD). Hopefully all will be well.

[domino harvey]

How brilliant the move is is yet to be seen of course. I doubt it will be as propitious as their move to dvd, which was timed so perfectly that they became the benchmark of the medium from thence forward. Here they're moving in steps behind other companies, and carrying the huge freight of their sd line (which can't be dropped like a stone like LD). Hopefully all will be well.

I meant not telling the consumer everything upfront was a brilliant move-- I'm with you on the doubts about how good of an idea Criterion getting in the Blu-ray market actually is.

[denti alligator]

Are you guys serious? For whom is this NOT a good move? Criterion already does hidef transfers. Putting out some Blu-rays will not cost them that much more work. The consumer benefits big time.

[domino harvey]

Are you guys serious? For whom is this NOT a good move? Criterion already does hidef transfers. Putting out some Blu-rays will not cost them that much more work. The consumer benefits big time.

At the risk of repeating myself from a few pages back, new Criterion releases that don't come with simultaneous Blu-ray releases and back-catalog titles will almost surely suffer in sales due to people "waiting" for a Blu-ray release that may never come.

[Cinephrenic]

I'm personally waiting for the costs for the players to go down.

[Scharphedin2]

Maybe someone can put me at ease... If anything, these announcements by Criterion and Kino to go Blu-ray made me a little perturbed.

I really can't get too concerned about the size, shape or color of the boxes, and if it meant access to a world of new films, I would shell out the money for the technology in a second.

However, I imagine an immediate future where the monthly release schedule will be something like one or two truly new releases, and then 2-4 re-releases of old catalogue titles spruced up for Blu-ray, and that is just a huge step in the wrong direction as far as I am concerned, no matter how great the advance in quality will be. Hopefully I am wrong.

[Cronenfly]

However, I imagine an immediate future where the monthly release schedule will be something like one or two truly new releases, and then 2-4 re-releases of old catalogue titles spruced up for Blu-ray, and that is just a huge step in the wrong direction as far as I am concerned, no matter how great the advance in quality will be. Hopefully I am wrong.

I wouldn't be surprised to see more meagre stretches like CC's March/April/May, but let's just hope that was warmup time for BR and more Eclipse (which is an example of one line that will get out truly new titles with any luck). That just applies to Criterion, of course, and I do share some of your concerns (look at Warner's, a big BR booster, catalogue output this year so far); only time will tell, I guess.

[denti alligator]

Are you guys serious? For whom is this NOT a good move? Criterion already does hidef transfers. Putting out some Blu-rays will not cost them that much more work. The consumer benefits big time.

At the risk of repeating myself from a few pages back, new Criterion releases that don't come with simultaneous Blu-ray releases and back-catalog titles will almost surely suffer in sales due to people "waiting" for a Blu-ray release that may never come.

Gotcha. I think we'll have to wait to see how they handle this. Am I going to wait on the High and Low reissue because there might be a Blu-ray coming? No. Unless Criterion announces something like "all releases made with a serviceable hidef transfer will be made available on Blu in the next two years" and they make all new releases coincide with Blu-rays of the same title and extras--until then we'll have to take them as they come. I'm not holding off on any of the awesome August titles in the hopes that a Blu-ray is around the corner. If December brings a Blu-ray High and Low, I'll sell my SD and replace it with the Blu-ray. The small amount of money I lose is worth it.

There are about 20-30 titles (at least) that need upgrading anyway, so if they spend their time doing those for both SD and BR that's fine, I think. I would welcome even one reissue per month. More than that would impede their ability to get new stuff, or new old stuff, out. In this sense I agree with Sharphedin.

It'll be interesting to see how they do this. I'm also curious if they will offer video extras in 1080p when available. That would be nice, especially in the cases of short films.

The argument that Hidef transfers of middling to poor elements will only make blemishes more visible seems falacious to me. A Hidef transfer is always going to look better: crisper, clearer, with more depth, better colors--no matter the source.

[Igno-boy]

I haven't seen this brought up elsewhere, but has anyone wondered about the version of The Last Emperor? The boxed set has the theatrical and television cuts, but my first reaction to this announcement was that the standalone release would be the TRUE theatrical release, in its theatrical aspect ratio. The logic being that there have been so many complaints about it, why would they release a single disc that so many had a problem with? I assumed this would be a case where Criterion was trying to make everyone happy...

[Cronenfly]

I haven't seen this brought up elsewhere, but has anyone wondered about the version of The Last Emperor? The boxed set has the theatrical and television cuts, but my first reaction to this announcement was that the standalone release would be the TRUE theatrical release, in its theatrical aspect ratio. The logic being that there have been so many complaints about it, why would they release a single disc that so many had a problem with? I assumed this would be a case where Criterion was trying to make everyone happy...

No way (though it would be nice); Storaro supervised the HD transfer in 2.00:1, and that's the way it's going to be no matter the iteration. The standalone BR is just for the people who own the SD boxset, and the SD theatrical-only is to capitalize on the Academy Awards hoopla/for people who don't care about the extras.

[Doctor Sunshine]

I'm also curious if they will offer video extras in 1080p when available.

I was just going through The Departed's special features the other day and it seemed like they would alternate between non anamorphic widescreen and extreme pictureboxed fullscreen. Sort of like they didn't know or care what they were doing. But if noone else would bother there's at least a chance Criterion would. It would be interesting to hear from some of our fourm members in the DVD authoring industry how much more cost is involved for bluray. I can't imagine the pipeline being all that different or anymore expensive. There'd be some new equipment but that's a one time fee. So I wouldn't think HD extras would be a problem.

Also, Criterion's been really good about double dipping. I can't image they'd go through their entire catalog again withing 2 years, or even 10 years. I think, and hope, they'll revisit titles at the same rate as they've been doing, as in one every few months. They've said before that there are enough great films out there that they'll never get to them all--that's the idea that birthed Eclipse, afterall. Bluray's still got a loooong way to go before it's mainstream so they're not going to go nuts. The number of bluray titles announced is impressive but they're just testing the waters at this point.

Some random opinions: I'd like them to keep case sizes the same as DVDs but CD cases are always the same size, DVDs, video games are the same dimension, I can't see them doing it. Kind of like them to keep the spine numbers the same but don't really care. I hope they're able to sneak a few licenses they wouldn't normally be able to get out of this but I don't think they'll ever get free reign like laserdisc days again. (And, really, I prefer it when they stay away from mainstream stuff.)

[Tommaso]

There are about 20-30 titles (at least) that need upgrading anyway, so if they spend their time doing those for both SD and BR that's fine, I think. I would welcome even one reissue per month. More than that would impede their ability to get new stuff, or new old stuff, out. In this sense I agree with Sharphedin..

As to the upgrading necessary for many of their older discs: I don't know why, but I got a very bad feeling reading that "Salo" was coming on Blu Ray. It may not happen with this film yet, but later with others: the upgraded disc might ONLY appear on BluRay. I remember the time when CDs were introduced, and already after a few years (1985, Eno's "Thursday Afternoon" to be precise) the first releases came out that were only available on CD, not on vinyl, thus forcing costumers to get one of those players that could handle those little shiny thingies. At that time, this was not a big deal, because the difference between vinyl and cd was almost as huge as that between VHS and DVD. But I could imagine the industry trying it again the same way to make customers buy the new medium sooner than they would normally.

I understand perfectly well that every film profits from the higher resolution (always provided you have a TV that can make use of it), but given my general tastes in film, for me it's like playing an old 78rpm recording on a supa-dupa CD player. I'm not sure whether it would make much sense seeing more details of the nitrate decomposition of a silent or more detailed tramlines on 30s Mizoguchi via Blu Ray. Those who love "Last Emperor" will certainly profit from the new technology, but at the moment I hope that CC and other companies will be releasing films on both mediums simultaneously for a long while. But in this respect I'm with Sharphedin: it might seriously slow down the release schedule, and might also give the Collection a different drift: stronger emphasis on newer films, old films dumped into Eclipse, even more inhibitions by other companies like MoC about releasing films whose materials they find 'sub-standard' ("Vampyr"). If there happens to be a 'blu ray craze' any time soon, I fear that the relatively paradisical situation for silents in the last two years or so might soon be over.

[CSM126]

It may not happen with this film yet, but later with others: the upgraded disc might ONLY appear on BluRay.

Oh yeah, because Criterion loves to cut their own profits on any given title by alienating the vast majority of their audience in a time when they're reluctant to upgrade to a still-marginal new technology.

That's good business.