17 Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom

[kekid]

So...awaiting an announcement about a BD version soon.

Well they ain't starting their blu-ray line until October so they're doing exactly what you don't want.

Yes. But a firm announcement with a specific future release date would accomplish the purpose.

[Ivy Mike]

Where can any of Pasolini's writings on film theory be found? I know I have an essay of his in one of the Movies and Methods volumes but was just wondering if anyone knew of suggested websites or book collections of his work.

[tavernier]

Where can any of Pasolini's writings on film theory be found? I know I have an essay of his in one of the Movies and Methods volumes but was just wondering if anyone knew of suggested websites or book collections of his work.

Start here.

[oldsheperd]

I just think Salo is a fun rollercoaster ride of a romp for everyone. Like a Pixar film with poop!

[miless]

oh... like Ratatouille?

[jsteffe]

Where can any of Pasolini's writings on film theory be found? I know I have an essay of his in one of the Movies and Methods volumes but was just wondering if anyone knew of suggested websites or book collections of his work.

Start here.

To be more precise, his most significant volume of film theory is Heretical Empiricism.

It's been a while since I read his film theory, but I found it heavy-going and not as rewarding as, say, Andre Bazin, Roland Barthes, or even Christian Metz. If you mainly want to understand his films better, you might consider starting with his poetry and prose fiction first.

[diablosinc]

well, longtime lurker finally registers based solely on the conversation i've discovered in this thread....ever since its announcement, the new salo has been drumming up arguments, new and old..."the most passionately debated film of all time" indeed!!!

what astonishes me particularly about this thread is that even the passionate haters of this film are framing their arguments not simply on kneejerk reaction to the film, but rather on their later thoughts regarding those reactions....hmmn, i'm getting my words mussed up here...let me try to clarify...
everyone has their initial reactions to this film...hell, every frame demands it! but what i'm finding here is that few of the posters have been making their opinions based solely on those initial reactions...instead, they seem to be based on reflection over these initial reactions....
we're all holding binoculars up to our initial impressions...backwards.

all i'm saying is...its nice to see a salo thread thats more involved than "you're just sick perverts", followed by "so go watch some adam sandler, you cinematic moron!".

(speaking of...i always wanted to redo the coprophagia scene, with a jump cut right as the spoon is about to touch the lips of a victim...a jumpcut to a couple watching an adam sandler film, and the man asks the woman "why are we watching this?", and the woman replies "because we paid to, and they made it.")

someone mentioned pasolini's lament over "a world almost extinct" in the trilogy of life, followed by his own admission that such a world is no longer possible with "salo"....
here in the states, and indeed in this modern globalised world...the society of "salo" is in full-swing, but like in salo...you can hear the aeroplanes flying overhead...and the simpler world pasolini laments is getting nearer and nearer to rebirth...

thank you to everyone who has posted their thoughts, insights, and analases...some of you have posted thoughts and instincts i've long held about this film in ways i could never've articulated so concisely.

don't turn off the news, folks....its nothing more than turning around the binoculars!

[jsteffe]

Welcome, diablosinc!

I'm glad you've found this thread rewarding. Forums like this tend to be very mixed bags, but Criterionforum.org has a high level of discussion most of the time. There are actually quite a few people here who a) know something about film history, or b) know something about the DVD marketplace, or c) know a whole lot about both. It's one of the reasons why I keep returning to it.

And yes, it's remarkable how SALO, which I don't even particularly enjoy compared to some of Pasolini's other works, somehow compels me to return to it periodically and reflect on my reactions. Clearly, he has accomplished something, even if I'm not entirely sure what it is.

[diablosinc]

thats the point...we're not supposed to understand, ultimately. this is my humble opinion, but one worth examination, i feel... we're not meant to get it. the moment we do, our complicitness becomes suspect, and we're worse than guilty for everything we've just seen...

again, just a thought. react, as you will.

[diablosinc]

so, this might seem like an odd thing to concern oneself over...but how does everyone feel about this one....? i've seen salo now at least 25 times. bad, fullframe transfers of horribly abused prints...the almost pristine (but incorrect AR) gaumont edition...proper film prints projected....but now, we're getting a hi-def transfer....doesn't this sound a touch too "clean" for such a film?

to me, the best viewing experiences have been either battered prints projected, or the BFI, and the reason is this; it almost feels like the film stock itself is BEGGING for a shower...like it knows what it contains, and feels remorse! i mention this because, apart from being 1.66:1, the gaumont was my least enjoyable experience with the film, because it looked too...well...nice. colors popped, detail was sharp....just wasn't SALO.

i suppose my fears are unfounded...after all, dark sky's UE of "texas chain saw massacre" manages to look "pristinely grimy", and i'm sure the folks at criterion would consider the grime on SALO to be at least partially essential to the viewing experience (perhaps explaining the first transfer...or as i call it, "SALO through the GREENCAM!!!").

dunno....i was thinking about this last night, and knew the only place i could discuss it without being told "don't EVER bring that movie up AGAIN!" was here with you all... discuss...?

[moviscop]

The film is just so controversial because of its reputation. And the fact that Pier Paolo Pasolini was murdered because of it. It is a haunting and disturbing film. I especially enjoy the scenes where Pasolini frames an observer of the events with the opera binoculars. It was a fantastic representation of the disconnection between first-hand violence and observation.

(edit: enjoy is probably the wrong word for salo, it was an interesting way of framing.)

[Narshty]

Specs updated:

SPECIAL EDITION DOUBLE-DISC SET FEATURES:
- New, restored high-definition digital transfer
- "Salò": Yesterday and Today, a 33-minute documentary featuring interviews with director Pier Paolo Pasolini, actor-filmmaker Jean-Claude Biette, and Pasolini friend Nineto Davoli
- Fade to Black, a 23-minute documentary featuring directors Bernardo Bertolucci, Catherine Breillat, and John Maybury, as well as scholar David Forgacs
- The End of "Salò", a 40-minute documentary about the film’s production
- New interviews with set designer Dante Ferretti and director and film scholar Jean-Pierre Gorin
- Optional English-dubbed soundtrack
- Theatrical trailer
- PLUS: A booklet featuring new essays by Neil Bartlett, Catherine Breillat, Naomi Greene, Sam Rohdie, Roberto Chiesi, and Gary Indiana, and excerpts from Gideon Bachmann’s on-set diary

Fade to Black appears to be the Mark Kermode documentary made to accompany the film's UK TV premiere in 2001 on FilmFour.

[MichaelB]

And the fact that Pier Paolo Pasolini was murdered because of it.

A completely untenable position. Pasolini was murdered almost certainly for poltical reasons, but Salo is, in itself, not the reason.

Not least because no-one outside Pasolini's immediate circle would have seen the film, which hadn't been released at the time of his death.

[oldsheperd]

He was run over with his car several times. That's more brutal than anything in Salo. Here's some interesting speculation from Wikipedia on his death:

Other evidence, uncovered in 2005, points to Pasolini having been murdered by an extortionist. Testimony by Pasolini's friend, Sergio Citti, indicates that some of the rolls of film from Salò had been stolen, and that Pasolini had been going to meet with the thieves after a visit to Stockholm, November 2, 1975.

Others report that, shortly before he was found dead in Ostia, outside Rome, he told them he knew he would be murdered by the mafia.[citation needed] It has also been suggested that Pasolini not only knew he was going to die, but in fact wanted to be killed and staged his death. Proponents of this theory include Pasolini's lifelong friend, painter and writer Giuseppe Zigaina. Zigaina claims that "Pasolini himself was the 'organizer' of his own death, which, conceived as a form of expression, was intended to give meaning to his entire oeuvre."[1] Zigaina argues that Pasolini had been planning his death for many years and planted in his works clandestine codes that revealed when and how it would happen. Another of Pasolini's close friends, Alberto Moravia, has also found striking similarities between his death and his work. In 1977, Moravia wrote a book about the murder and in it said that he recognized the murder scene in Ostia from Pasolini's descriptions of similar landscapes in his two novels, Ragazzi di vita (The Ragazzi) and Una vita violenta (A Violent Life), and in an image from his first film Accattone. Pasolini had even shot footage of the site a year earlier, for use in his film Il fiore delle mille e una notte (A Thousand and One Nights). Unlike Zigaina, however, Moravia has written off these similarities as no more than poetic irony.[2]

[Gigi M.]

I've been told by BFI it is region-free and 1.85 NOT 1.66.

Gary, any word from Criterion about a Blu Ray release? It seems many people with Blu Ray players might want to pick the BFI over the Criterion.

[Tommaso]

I don't have a BluRay-player, but am seriously contemplating to pick up the BFI edition if the standard variant has the same extras. Not only because of the Coil video, but even more so because of the Julian-Cope-film! I only hope that the image quality of both the CC and the BFI standard discs is the same; in any case, I'm happy that I've not yet pre-ordered the CC version...

[Matt]

but even more so because of the Julian-Cope-film!

Just so you're clear on this, it's Julian Cole, not .

[Tommaso]

Thanks, Matt! I thought of Cope because he is on friendly terms with the guys from Coil. And that cover somehow obliquely looks "Salo"-inspired...

[kekid]

The exchange on this thread clearly indicates that Criterion are making a mistake by not issuing the Blu-Ray version of Salo at the same time. The least they could do is to announce a specific date by which the Blu-Ray version will be released. They followed the same process when transitioning from Laserdisc to DVD. They kept on releasing new material in LD-only format after they issued their first DVD, thus forcing their customers to buy those films twice. I do not understand the rationale of this strategy.

[tojoed]

... thus forcing their customers to buy those films twice. I do not understand the rationale of this strategy.

You've answered your own question.

[zedz]

And that cover somehow obliquely looks "Salo"-inspired...

That cover (and album) is LSD-meltdown-inspired (and highly recommended).

[Rich Malloy]

The exchange on this thread clearly indicates that Criterion are making a mistake by not issuing the Blu-Ray version of Salo at the same time.

Agreed. I've all but stopped purchasing SD releases, and that definitely includes Criterion's "SALO". A perfect candidate for Netflixing.

[MichaelB]

I don't have a BluRay-player, but am seriously contemplating to pick up the BFI edition if the standard variant has the same extras. Not only because of the Coil video, but even more so because of the Julian-Cope-film! I only hope that the image quality of both the CC and the BFI standard discs is the same; in any case, I'm happy that I've not yet pre-ordered the CC version...

Aside from the enhanced picture resolution of the Blu-Ray (well, duh), my understanding is that both BFI releases will be essentially identical (disc two and the booklet really will be exactly the same) - and both sourced from the same HD transfer, created at Technicolor in Rome under BFI supervision, and telecined from the original negative.

[Tommaso]

Aside from the enhanced picture resolution of the Blu-Ray (well, duh), my understanding is that both BFI releases will be essentially identical (disc two and the booklet really will be exactly the same) - and both sourced from the same HD transfer, created at Technicolor in Rome under BFI supervision, and telecined from the original negative.

Sounds very good! I'll not go BluRay anytime soon, though it's good to see that slowly some non-mainstream titles begin to appear. Do you happen to know whether CC made their own transfer or whether it is a collaborative effort of both labels (which would make sense to me)?

[MichaelB]

Do you happen to know whether CC made their own transfer or whether it is a collaborative effort of both labels (which would make sense to me)?

Criterion and the BFI have collaborated on many occasions, but I believe the Salò transfers are different.