The Spirit (Frank Miller, 2008)

[domino harvey]

I'm not arguing fidelity with you Serris, I could care less if a film is "true" to its source. What I'm objecting to is your claim that because Miller "knew" Eisner, what those of us who didn't know Eisner have to say about his adaptation is not as valid.

[Serris]

I'm not arguing fidelity with you Serris, I could care less if a film is "true" to its source. What I'm objecting to is your claim that because Miller "knew" Eisner, what those of us who didn't know Eisner have to say about his adaptation is not as valid.

I never meant to suggest that. That's why I remarked that that didn't invalidate criticism. I'll requote the relevant section here, just so that people don't have to hunt through my post.

What is true is that Frank Miller knew Will Eisner better than you did. Maybe Miller's wrong, and Eisner always wanted it blue. Personally, I'll wait for somebody who knew Eisner better than Miller did to argue that. Miller also cares about Eisner more than you do. While that doesn't invalidate your criticisms, the "I'm going to defend Poor Little Will Eisner against Big Bad Frank" attitude comes off as a little self-righteous.

It appears that I didn't articulate myself as well as I meant. I'll try again. I have no quarrels with anybody claiming that Miller's creative decisions are about as inspired as the Bay of Pigs invasion. I'm not trying to defend the Spirit being black, the Digital Backlot techniques, the reminiscence of "Sin City," the "My City Screams" tagline, or any of the other, many complaints that have been voiced, here or elsewhere, about this film.

What I was trying to say is that Miller offered an explanation for why he changed the color, and why he felt that that didn't contradict Eisner's vision. It was then replied that Miller's words were "excuses," the word bullshit being used to describe them. I was trying to suggest that maybe Miller isn't full of it, maybe he knows what he's talking about in terms of the color change, being a man who knew Eisner well. I took an issue with, and only with, the remark that Miller was making up excuses for the color change.

That's all I was trying to say, and I'm sorry that that didn't come across

[starmanof51]

I'm not arguing fidelity with you Serris, I could care less if a film is "true" to its source. What I'm objecting to is your claim that because Miller "knew" Eisner, what those of us who didn't know Eisner have to say about his adaptation is not as valid.

Exactly, Domino's probably saying it better than me. Criticism (or praise) along these lines can't be shut off by fiat.

And this is probably piquing me more than it should Serris, for which I apologize - anything that hints of "if you don't like it go home" is hot button for me.

[Serris]

And this is probably piquing me more than it should Serris, for which I apologize - anything that hints of "if you don't like it go home" is hot button for me.

I appreciate that. That isn't my intention at all; I really do think that when it comes to highly fidelous fans of works that are being adapted, they should consider not seeing something that would anger them, because fidelity can't really be debated. An adaptation is, or is not, fidelous to its source. That isn't meant to preclude discussion, though I was momentarily naive in saying it, as it typically is. It was more inspired by the afforementioned Alan Moore's responses to adaptations of his own works - he doesn't see them because he knows that he'd hate them on principle.

I've never read the Spirit, but there are certain upcoming works (ie "Watchmen") where I'd be just as incensed over changes. I'm not opposed to anger over fidelity. It was an honest, naive suggestion.

[Cobalt60]

Alright, if my using the term "excuse" to characterize Franks defense or rationalization or explanation or whatever you want to call it is the/a source of the increased room temperature of this debate then I'll back off. Call it whatever you want...fact remains it comes off, to me as


"Ole Willy used to tell me how he wished to hell that he could have made Denny's duds black, but the damn printers couldn't do it for him. Well, Willy was a good buddy of mine and I think it would do him proud if I fixed what he never could. Thank God he confided me sicne now thats hes gone we can't ask him (or verify this). Also, it happens to make it look more like Sin City. Gee, I never noticed that"


Well, I am putting words in Franks and being a dick. Anyway, yeah, the cover gallery I posted was Kitchen Sink reprints from the late '80s (or early '90s) but that was just to illustrate how iconic the blue motif is this character.

[Serris]

You're entirely entitled to your opinions. If the covers are any indication of the flavor of the comics, I'd agree that Miller should've stuck with blue. I also don't want this movie to look like Sin City, or feel like Sin City. Right now, it seems to do both, and the only thing keeping me from losing hope is my love for "The Dark Knight Returns" and the fact that we've only seen teasers.

I think that it'll be interesting to see an actual trailer. With "Sin City," the comics were either the actual storyboards, or close enough. My understanding is that this film is based more on the series than on a specific yarn. Miller's going to be designing shots from the ground up, a trailer will be the first real indicator of what he's learned during and since "Sin City."

[starmanof51]

I've never read the Spirit

Neither have I. So naturally we should post here a bunch.

[Serris]

Neither have I. So naturally we should post here a bunch.

Haha, splendid idea! =D>

[moviscop]

I am getting really tired of all of this Frank Miller eye-candy bullshit.

300 was an atrocious film!

If they actually had someone original direct his work maybe it would have a bit more substance than style.

[zedz]

"Ole Willy used to tell me how he wished to hell that he could have made Denny's duds black, but the damn printers couldn't do it for him. Well, Willy was a good buddy of mine and I think it would do him proud if I fixed what he never could. Thank God he confided me sicne now thats hes gone we can't ask him (or verify this). Also, it happens to make it look more like Sin City. Gee, I never noticed that"

This may be the silliest discussion I've ever got involved in, but Miller is talking through his arse about the history of comics printing. No cartoonist has ever had trouble with black - it's the fucking colour of the ink, and there are countless ways to 'indicate' highlights on a black surface (as is the case with Superman's hair, dark blue highlights and all). See the coat and dress in this Milton Caniff example:



Eisner was a great cartoonist and was famous for his chiaroscuro effects. If he'd wanted to give the Spirit a black suit he was certainly able to do so. Instead, he indicated a much lighter shade: have a look at any of his original art, or any of the many colour versions he oversaw in his lifetime:



If I recall, the character even made reference to his 'baby blue' duds. But, of course, baby blue isn't exactly the ideal colour for takes-itself-too-seriously neo-noir (though Eisner's Spirit never took himself too seriously).

[domino harvey]

Appropriate anagram for "Frank Miller's the Spirit": A Trifler Thinks Simpler

The advanced word on the project from an insider? A Feller Hints: 'Smirk Trip'

A final word of advice to critics: Heartless Film? Print Irk.

[Antoine Doinel]

ScarJo wants you on your knees.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

New trailer

Wow, this looks really awful. None of the characters look right (as far as their corresponding comic book counterpart) and Samuel L. Jackson looks ridiculous.

[Len]

Indeed.

That looks way worse than I thought it'd be. I don't think it's just the godawful "rock" track playing in the background, but it certainly contributes to the whole thing looking like an late 90's music video. It doesn't even look like a film (and no, that is not praise for Miller's rebellious visual genius, the remnants of which seem to have deserted him ages ago). Eww.

Miller is such a douchebag.

[Antoine Doinel]

Here's the trailer in HD. The music is godawful, but it's delivering everything I expected namely, curvaceous women and scenery chewing dialogue. I think - I hope - it's aiming to be a B-movie and nothing more. I've never read the comic, so I'm not much concerned about how true it is "visually". Frankly, none of the images of the old cartoon posted here make me think that something following Eisner's style would be better. Nor is the dialogue any more profound than what's in the trailer either.

[moviscop]

It looks really bad, except for the women, you are right there.

How many times can someone rehash the same garbage and make bank on it. Too much eye candy for me, not enough substance.

[Max von Mayerling]

Agreed - bomb. (Although I thought Titanic would sink, so my aim is not true.) For my 2 cents - Miller has created his share of pulp masterpieces, but he's been well done for many, many years now ... although admittedly his more recent work has won him the cash horde & clout in Hollywood. Let's all hope we're spared a film version of his latest Batman project...

(P.S. I'm generally against film adaptations of inspired comix (see, e.g., Watchmen), but a proper film version of Ronin might be a real treat...)

And can I add to the general chimes suggesting that this is oddly disrespectful of Eisner? I mean, jeez. Like, hello, crass way to leave your pissings on your forebears graves... as if you didn't have enough material of your own to hack your way through on the silver screen...

[exte]

I think what takes me aback is how small the shooting stage looks. It's well lit like a magazine shoot, but there's no depth whatsoever, so it almost looks like it could've been done in someone's house or something... Still, if Jarmusch released this trailer I think most of you would've shit your pants. Is it possible we just don't like the conservative Mr. Miller?

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

As a conservative, I can say that I dislike his way of shooting and his mucking about with Eisner.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

I think what takes me aback is how small the shooting stage looks. It's well lit like a magazine shoot, but there's no depth whatsoever, so it almost looks like it could've been done in someone's house or something... Still, if Jarmusch released this trailer I think most of you would've shit your pants. Is it possible we just don't like the conservative Mr. Miller?

Actually, I'm a big fan of Miller's comic book output (Ronin, Dark Knight Returns, Year One, etc.) and I really loved what he and Rodriguez did with the Sin City film but this just seems all wrong in every way imaginable. But hey, it really is hard to say from what little footage we've been allowed to see. I'm sure I'll see it when it is released in theaters and see what the final product looks like.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

Yikes! This does not sound good. A report from the Comic Con:

The Spirit
The most promising project was the Frank Miller-directed comic book adaptation "The Spirit", and yet even it. Miller, producer Deborah Del Prete, Gabriel Macht, Samuel L. Jackson, and Jaime King all showed up to promote the project and showed off three clips indicating the film veering away from the gritty "Sin City" comparisons in favor of an almost screwball comedy approach at times despite Miller's protest that there’s nothing campy about the film's humor.

Response to the already released trailer's screening again was polite but not enthusiatic, better were the various clips but they're still uninspiring. A fight scene clip had Spirit (Macht) and Octopus (Jackson) basically in a brawl with various objects wacking each other from a spanner to a crow bar, to bricks to even a toilet. Another scene has Spirit trying to seduce Ellen (Sarah Paulson), and then a rookie cop who walks into the room - naturally a pissed off Ellen throws a scalpel at the door behind him. Finally a scene had Eva Mendes fighting with Octopus and then diving underwater trying to retrieve a chest and come up inside a darkened building. That scene was shot using a new kind of super-speed camera thus allowing Mendes to simulate swimming underwater which will be added by visual effects later.

Samuel L. Jackson revealed that the size of the guns of his villainous Octopus character grows larger each time he shows up, meaning that by the end they were so ridiculously huge they had to be custom built by hand. Louis Lombardi (Edgar from "24") plays the Octopus' henchmen who all come from clones. Thus they have limited intelligence and, like South Park's Kenny, are killed in various elaborate ways throughout the film. The film's time is not distinct - the 40's style outfits are mixed with cell phones.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

The only thing I liked in that report was "Jaime King". I guess that 2009 will balance out all the good comic book movies of 2008.

[davebert]

I've been digging through The Spirit, starting with the Best Of and moving to the more comprehensive Archives. The strips I've seen so far are really fantastic, a great mix of skilled artwork and humorous, briskly-paced storytelling.

Having read it, the "campy" or "slapstick" approach reported above would not be entirely off, given the series' genuine humor, but that depends on whether we are talking light joking, which the characters repeatedly deal in (some of the best art of The Spirit is when he's taken aback by something and adjusts his collar, all bug-eyed and nervous), or a level of camp on the scale of the Adam West period in Batman. That would be overreaching.

Seductive female characters playing villains, sidekicks or love interests, depending on the issue, are also something I appreciated. At least the film got the number of women right, even if I'm guessing their interactions will be entirely ridiculous and ham-fisted.

[Antoine Doinel]

A whole bunch of new stills and a couple of posters.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

New trailer