Bob Fosse

[ben d banana]

so, the enthusiasm here and a recent viewing of cabaret, which knocked me out, convinced me to pick this up w/ an xmas gift card. of course i ran into an old jr high pal who was raving to me about a live slayer dvd and then he asks me what i'm buying and there it is, in my hands, all that jazz.

[KJB2]

Personally, I think you had the upper hand in that situation, Ben. IMO, Roy Scheider smoking, drinking, and drugging himself to death whilst surrounded by beautiful women is far more rock'n'roll than sweaty, portly old men on a stage - but that's just my opinion.

[Ted Todorov]

I couldn't even imagine seeing this film in the theater.. that would have been sooo overwhelming.

I didn't see it on its original release, but I did see the Academy restoration in a theater - it was overwhelming. It, along with seeing a brand-new print of Don't Look Now at the Castro Theater, remains one of the greatest movie-going experiences of my life.

I saw it on it's original release -- three times. (I guess I had just turned 17). Totally, totally loved it then and now. I was living in Princeton at the time, and I made two trips to NYC just to see it. It was playing at the Cinema 1 (on third Avenue). I remember being stuck in the smoking section, watching Joe Gideon smoke himself to death through a cloud of smoke.

I was a huge Bob Fosse fan to start with -- he had fried my teenaged mind with his wild production numbers and thrusting hips long before All That Jazz. And I almost forgot Lenny. Yes, Martha, Fosse was a genius -- and All That Jazz was his masterwork.

Ted

[Michael]

Fosse made a film that put an enormous effect on me while I was in elementary school - Cabaret . It opened my eyes to a completely foreign world that stayed with me throughout my life - the underground 1930s Berlin complete with a smoky cabaret that I dream to belong to. I decided to revisit Cabaret recently and was left in utter shock in how well it continues to hold up. I'm trying to figure out how people - adults - perceived Cabaret and Fosse's other works back in the 70s. Odd? different? modern? groundbreaking?

PS Also make sure to check out Liza with a Z which just came out on DVD. Remarkable production!

[viciousliar]

All That Jazz left me completely devastated after I saw it the first time around, its impact on me in a way being similar to that of Johnny Got His Gun. I know critics aren't in agreement about the latter, but that does of course not diminish the effect it had upon me the first and only time I viewed the flick. Btw., did Fosse die from AIDS?

[Michael]

Btw., did Fosse die from AIDS?

No, he died of heart attack in 1987. What made you think that he died from AIDS? Too bad he wasn't around to film Chicago. Have you seen Cabaret, viciousliar?

[Matt]

Star 80, by the way, is an astounding film, even in its sad state as a full-frame DVD from Warners. Don't discount Lenny, either. Fantastic performances by Dustin Hoffman and Valerie Perrine (who pissed away her career on a bunch of shitty movies in the 80s). Beautifully shot, too.

Hell, while I'm at it, I also recommend watching Fosse's routines as a dancer in Kiss Me Kate ("From This Moment On") and Damn Yankees ("Who's Got the Pain?").

Sadly, the only parts of Sweet Charity I like at all are the "Hey, Big Spender" and "Rhythm of Life" numbers. Fosse was only just getting his feet wet with this film and really only shines when he's got a production number to put across. Also, he really could have used the presence of Gwen Verdon in the lead instead of big-assed ol' Shirl.

[putney]

Absolutely in agreement with you, still one of my top 20 films, and i've seen it an obscene amount of times and have never left it less than overawed...
re: "Lenny" though, I never understand why the praise for Dustin Hoffman's performance. One major flaw, for me, with that film is a simple one, Lenny Bruce was funny. There is nothing , for me, in that film that even brings across a shadow of the energy, brilliance, and vision of the man, and why anyone would have have so vigorously cared about him. And he's plain not funny in the film's performance sequences. That's why I like the "Lenny" sections in "All that jazz" so much. I'm probably totally misreading it, but in "atj" the film he's editing is a disaster because it just doesn't "work".

[justeleblanc]

Sadly, the only parts of Sweet Charity I like at all are the "Hey, Big Spender" and "Rhythm of Life" numbers. Fosse was only just getting his feet wet with this film and really only shines when he's got a production number to put across. Also, he really could have used the presence of Gwen Verdon in the lead instead of big-assed ol' Shirl.

I don't know, dude. I actually love this movie! Every musical number seems to be just perfect to me, especially the instrumental "Rich Man's Frug" bit at the club. I totally want to make love to those dance moves. And the movie oddly makes a nice double feature with The Apartment thanks to ol' Shirl.

Another one of his that I always find myself watching is the televised live performance of Pippin, which is just so damn good. And the "With You" sex/dance number is what the "Air-otica" piece from All That Jazz is supposed to be. I think the DVD is still available.

[Polybius]

There will always be a place in my heart for Richard Dreyfuss, as he had the good sense and decency to walk away from All That Jazz soon after production started. Could you imagine?

What's even more alarming is the thought that, if Scheider had left, Fosse might next have turned to Robert Shaw.

Who was next on the depth chart? Bruce?

I love Cabaret. I don't really like genre Musicals from the 30's, 40's and 50's, with the signal exception of (ironically) Meet Me In St. Louis, so saying Cabaret is my favorite Musical doesn't really do justice to how much I really dig it.

[TedW]

I, too, love All That Jazz. Since there are a number of David Fincher fans on this board, anybody remember his Paula Abdul video "Cold-Hearted Snake"? It's a pastiche of the "Air-otica" number.

[Lino]

Count me in as one of ATJ admirers (a film that simply gets better with every viewing) and I also agree with Matt about Lenny: very underappreciated but one hell of a movie and with perhaps the best B/W cinematography of a film from the 70's, rivalled only perhaps by Allen's Manhattan. Time to see it again, I guess - it's been ages since I've done that.

[Fletch F. Fletch]

re: "Lenny" though, I never understand why the praise for Dustin Hoffman's performance. One major flaw, for me, with that film is a simple one, Lenny Bruce was funny. There is nothing , for me, in that film that even brings across a shadow of the energy, brilliance, and vision of the man, and why anyone would have have so vigorously cared about him. And he's plain not funny in the film's performance sequences.

Agreed. I really felt that Hoffman did not do Bruce's live performance's justice. And he was facing an uphill battle considering the footage that exists of Bruce doing his routines so he had a tough mountain to climb, IMO.

[Matt]

re: "Lenny" though, I never understand why the praise for Dustin Hoffman's performance. One major flaw, for me, with that film is a simple one, Lenny Bruce was funny. There is nothing , for me, in that film that even brings across a shadow of the energy, brilliance, and vision of the man, and why anyone would have have so vigorously cared about him. And he's plain not funny in the film's performance sequences.

Agreed. I really felt that Hoffman did not do Bruce's live performance's justice. And he was facing an uphill battle considering the footage that exists of Bruce doing his routines so he had a tough mountain to climb, IMO.

Well, I guess as an impersonation of Lenny Bruce, it may have its shortcomings, but as a performance in and of itself, I think it's pretty great. The film is not really about Bruce's comedy, but about his lack of ability to focus on anything else. To show him slaying audiences with jokes and routines, to show him being funny, would actually undermine Fosse's (and Julian Barry's) intent.

[putney]

The film is not really about Bruce's comedy, but about his lack of ability to focus on anything else. To show him slaying audiences with jokes and routines, to show him being funny, would actually undermine Fosse's (and Julian Barry's) intent.

well, i guess that's why i don't think it works, because the conflict between the two doesn't exist in the film. I understand that intent, but for me, it just doesn't in film terms, because we are given the acted performances as the contrast, not his actual public persona. in the film his stage persona is so lacking in interest, for me, that it just doesn't resonate..trust me, I love fosse, I guess in this one case, I loved Lenny Bruce more, so I know I'm biased...
and i still find myself looking at myself in the mirror every morning and saying "it's showtime!" hahaha

[David Ehrenstein]

It should have been called Honey, cause Fosse really appreciated strippers.

A great and erratic talent you can see the beginnings of his career quite clearly in the "From This Moment On" number in Kiss Me Kate, where he's partnered with Carol Haney. All the Fosse moves are right there. He's also a standout in Give a Girl a Break and My Sister Eileen (where he does a great challenge dance with Tommy Rall.)

Of his own films Cabaret and All That Jazz couldn't be better. The others are wildly uneven.

All That Jazz is quite close to my heart because of my friend Tony Holland who plays the songwriter for "New York/ L.A." and sings "Take Off with Us" -- one of the film's biggest highlights:

"Sit back, relax -- here come the snacks!"

Tony died of AIDS after a fashion as he took his own life at the point he was entering the last stages of a rather swift decline.

The other great moment is when Roy Scheider, stumbling about the back stairways of the hospital, his IVs trailing out of his arms, looks straight up into the camera and says "What's the matter folks? Don't you like musical comedy?"

[Harold Gervais]

Agreed with almost everything noted above. Truly remarkable movie, Fosse's masterpiece and one of the greatest films ever made. If Death looked like Jessica Lange at that point of her life, I'd be popping pills, smoking like a stack and drinking like a fish for a chance to spend extended time with her as well.
Not something I say often but I'd double dip on a release of All That Jazz if Fox would give it the 5-Star treatment it deserves in a heartbeat.

[David Ehrenstein]

And while we're on the subject --

http://ehrensteinland.com/htmls/bride/g ... ffner.html

[Faux Hulot]

[Le Feu Follet]

I'm new to this forum and I'm very pleased to bump this thread. This it THE film I watch at least once every three months, and now I must have watched it more than 15 times and, as others have said it just keeps getting better. It gets better from one viewing to another, and as one watches it, culminating in that incredible sequence of musical numbers. It has wonderful lines, such as 'if I die I apologize for all the things I did to you, and if I don't die I apologize for all the things I'll do to you' and 'yes, I say I love you; it helps me concentrate.' (from memory).

What other musical has open-heart surgery?

[Gordon]

Confession time: I have not seen All That Jazz. But it has been one of those movies that has intrigued me for many years. I tend to shy away from musicals, though I appreciate the artistry of them. But I greatly admire Roy Scheider's acting and I really ought to see the film. Hey, I had the gall to impulse buy The Exorcist II: The Heretic (click here for my thoughts on the film) so I'll lay 'em down for All That Jazz tomorrow or sunday. Cinematography by Giuseppe Rotunno, I see. Why did I wait so long. Idiot!



Sold!

[Le Feu Follet]

Gordon McMurphy, you are in for a treat. All That Jazz leaves Cabaret in the dust.

[Gordon]

Star 80 has intrigued me of late. The old 'Dark Side of Fame' theme almost always makes for powerful viewing and Fosse was unfluencing regarding practically everything dark in life. Cinematography by the late Sven Nykvist. The R1 DVD is 1.33:1 (open-matte or pan-and-scan?) but the Oz disc is anamorphic and is pretty good by all accounts.

Any thoughts on this film? Oh, another good reason for watching is that Hugh Hefner (played by Cliff Robertson) wasn't happy with his portrayal and he successfully sued. The character of Aram Nicholas is for all intents and purposes, Peter Bogdanovich. The apartment where the real Dorothy Stratten was murdered was used in the film! Fosse had more balls than a bowling alley and I have loved all his films, but I was never that interested in this one until a few days ago, when I realized that it has a lot going for it.

The R1 DVD is one of Warner's few fuck-ups and is overdue an overhaul. But I might just order the R4 soon.

[tavernier]

Order the R4 now....EzyDVD has it cheap (I got it for $4.47 AUS yesterday; it's $5.92 AUS right now):

[Michael]

Finally watched Sweet Charity. Quite charming and enjoyable with the jaw dropping choreography that keeps burning my mind as usual coming from Fosse. It's very long especially the scenes between Charity and Oscar, very stretched out but I didn't mind that much. Most musical movies of 1960s are a lot longer than this anyway. To compare Shirley to Giulietta Masina was very hard to resist at first, When it comes to reaching emotional peaks and depth, none of Charity could equal to Cabiria of course - the profoundness of Cabiria's meeting the mysterious man helping the homeless, her journey to the church and the devastasting picnic after is sorely missing from Charity. But Charity is still wildly entertaining. I just love the dance hall hostesses and their numbers. An inspiration for future drag queens.

A wonderful debut film from a genius - popping with crazy, gorgeous choreography and Shirley's infectious giddiness. And amazing costumes!

Unlike the rest of Fosse's filmography from Cabaret to Star 80, at least he left us one film that is warm, cozy, hopeful and feel-good and that's Sweet Charity. A Fosse film we can curl up and watch on a snowy Sunday.