Unauthorized Releases & Bootlegs

[starmanof51]

making a line of conduct for oneself based on that is a difficult task, other than "I will not buy one Chinese DVD because so many are bootlegs"

I go with that one.

[Antoine Doinel]

While it is normal that inheritors should benefit of a dead director's (writer's, whatever) success, the present limit of (in France) 70 years for books and no limit whatsoever for films (whose rights are indefinitely retained by distributors) seems a bit overstretched. If your father was Jean Renoir or John Ford (just at random, I don't know of anything special about those two!) and 30 years after he's dead you still rely on what he did to make a living, I'm not sure you actually deserve it.

What you're overlooking is that money that goes to, for example, John Ford's inheritors/estate isn't just so they can all roll around in custom Ferrari's. It's also to help pay for the upkeep of the estate's archives, research materials etc that cinephiles/scholars regularly access or use for research purposes. For titles that have legitimate releases, pirating merely makes it harder for the upkeep, storage and proper care for the very films/materials you may be a fan of.

As for the case of titles that are unavailable for whatever reason (from uncaring licensors to bitchy widows) yeah, go ahead and bootleg. I have no problem there. But pirating copies of titles that have legitimate releases (particularly classic or foreign films) just makes studios less likely to invest their money in restoring them.

[fiddlesticks]

making a line of conduct for oneself based on that is a difficult task, other than "I will not buy one Chinese DVD because so many are bootlegs"

I go with that one.

You might miss out on some good Chinese cinema following that rule. I have a few Chinese DVDs (Jia's Still Life as a good example) that are unavailable elsewhere, or at least were at the time. Michael Kerpan's reputable-dealers rule should keep you on the straight and narrow. I tend to use YesAsia and HKFlix, myself, and haven't had any concerns.

[Felix]

How can one tell the difference when the supposed piratewear has every indication of being legitimate? I thought pirated copies came on bare discs or DVD-Rs (or at the least, have altered artwork)?

I'm totally ignorant in this field, so I'd honestly appreciate an explanation. The price differential is admittedly suspicious, but I don't find it damning by itself.

You can usually get an idea after the fact because while the cover may be photocopied, the disc itself will usually look like it is a boot, for example, using a standard pic from the film, and none of the usual small print on it. wrt the covers, sometimes legitimate releases look little better than the photocopies used on boots.

There is an e-tailer mentioned quite a lot here who specialises in Japanese films and in that case if he offers the item with box then it is usually a DVD copy, though it may be out of print, and when it comes without a cover it is usually taken from an old VHS or TV broadcast. In my view the former is not ethical; the latter is. (Ironically, the same e-tailer sold me volumes 2 and 3 of the Human Condition and both were perfect while the legit volume 1 I got while it was still available was plagued by the disc sticking; sometimes legit companies do not help themselves.)

[starmanof51]

making a line of conduct for oneself based on that is a difficult task, other than "I will not buy one Chinese DVD because so many are bootlegs"

I go with that one.

You might miss out on some good Chinese cinema following that rule.

Yeah, but I can live with that.

[Michael Kerpan]

You might miss out on some good Chinese cinema following that rule.

Yeah, but I can live with that.

You obviously have little or no interest in Chinese cinema -- as what is released in the US is a trifling fraction of what is released (fully legitmately) in Asia.

[forweg]

You can usually get an idea after the fact because while the cover may be photocopied, the disc itself will usually look like it is a boot, for example, using a standard pic from the film, and none of the usual small print on it. wrt the covers, sometimes legitimate releases look little better than the photocopies used on boots.

The ones I got actually do have even the small print on them, and I highly doubt the fold-out sleeve that came with The Face of Jizo (made of what feels like quality material, not just flimsy paper) is photocopied. Again, I didn't know bootlegs/pirates even could look and feel this legitimate.

[Michael Kerpan]

The ones I got actually do have even the small print on them, and I highly doubt the fold-out sleeve that came with The Face of Jizo (made of what feels like quality material, not just flimsy paper) is photocopied. Again, I didn't know bootlegs/pirates even could look and feel this legitimate.

The bootlegs sold in Boston's Chinatown can have very elaborate professional quality packaging. I don't buy them -- as one never can tell just how good or bad the DVD itself will turn out to be.

[starmanof51]

You obviously have little or no interest in Chinese cinema.

Speaking broadly, that's correct - I avoid Chinese DVD product to avoid bootlegs of cinema I'm actually interested in. I find my interest in Chinese cinema is currently more than met by that which is available in R1 - I can't sufficiently get to those as it is, let alone need to seek out more. For the rest (euro-centric, I suppose), I'd rather steer clear of what seems a ridiculously boot-heavy system. As indicated, I'm quite prepared to live with what I might be missing out on, I've already got a Kevyip pile and "need to see" list that probably outstrips my ability to ever actually see in my lifetime. And I suppose I'm sensitive to rationalizations of buying product that is almost certainly booted due to a "well, but just possibly its legit, so why not buy anything" attitude (which is obviously not at all yours, Michael, but is present in the thread).

[fred]

Michael Kerpan's reputable-dealers rule should keep you on the straight and narrow. I tend to use YesAsia and HKFlix, myself, and haven't had any concerns.

Much of what HKFlix sells is legit, but they are in fact a notorious purveyor of bootlegs. Everything they sell from PanMedia/Red Sun is a bootleg.

[fiddlesticks]

Michael Kerpan's reputable-dealers rule should keep you on the straight and narrow. I tend to use YesAsia and HKFlix, myself, and haven't had any concerns.

Much of what HKFlix sells is legit, but they are in fact a notorious purveyor of bootlegs. Everything they sell from PanMedia/Red Sun is a bootleg.

I wasn't aware of that; fortunately I haven't any titles from those distributors. Thanks for the tip. Probably 95% of my Asian trade is through YesAsia, and if they have bootlegs on their site, I'm pretty sure I haven't bought any. I did buy a number of suspected bootlegs from a now-defunct Korean site several years ago, when I was still young and naïve (well, naïve, anyway), but I've slowly been replacing them with legitimate versions.

[PillowRock]

I've only ever bought one thing that I had any reason to suspect was a bootleg. That was the pink covered version of Chimes at Midnight from one of the Amazon Marketplace e-tailers.

That was just a matter of despairing that there would ever be an "authorized" version.

[Michael Kerpan]

I've never seen any pirated material on Yesasia or Buyoyo. I have seen a few iffy items on DVDfromKorea -- but these were more likely due to differences in copyright laws rather than piracy. (The latter sometimes has very low-cost legit DVDs, close-outs and the like -- not available from other sources).

[poohbear]

To cloud this issue even more, what do you think of the fan subs being posted at Asian DVD Club? This week someone posted a DVD of Naruse's Hideko The Bus Conductress. They recorded it off of Nihon Eiga Senmon and added English subtitles. This movie hasn't even been released on DVD in Japan. Fans subs of Naruse's Lightning and some Hibari movies also got posted this week at Asian DVD Club. You and I know these movies will never be released by legitimate distributors in the west. Should i go through life without seeing these movies or go ahead and download them knowing it will be the only way to see them subtitled?

[Michael Kerpan]

As long as you promise to buy legitimate releases as soon as they come out, you have my approval. ;~}

Actually, there is an unsubbed Japanese DVD release of Lightning. If you bought this, then one could (perhaps legitimately) argue that the subbed download is just an aid to using the item you previously purchased. (I have the Japanese release -- but not any subbed version myself).

[sidehacker]

You can always download the subtitles separately and then manually add them to your legitimately purchased edition. In the case of Hideko the Bus Counductress, there is (unfortunately) no other alternative.

[fiddlesticks]

You can always download the subtitles separately and then manually add them to your legitimately purchased edition. In the case of Hideko the Bus Counductress, there is (unfortunately) no other alternative.

You say that like it's no big deal, but I wouldn't even begin to know how to do something like that. Without wanting to derail this thread with a lengthy how-to, may I just ask how complicated it would be to do this? I'd love to have Hideko the Bus Conductress, but unless the entire screenplay consists of "good morning" and "thank you", I'd be lost without English subs.

[sidehacker]

Usually with custom subs, the maker provides a .srt file so that those who have already downloaded or own the disc can just patch it on. I'm personally not exactly sure how to do this but you could open the disc in VLC as though it were an .avi file, and then load the external subs.

[Michael Kerpan]

Actually -- the only decent looking version of Hideko the Bus Conductress was taped off Japanese TV. There is no commercial release yet -- and I fear there may never be one (Toho hasn't hinted at any further DVD releases -- and shochiku doesn't seem inclined to release any of the silents of DVD). So, if you want to see Hideko, you will have to settle for a non-commercial version of some sort (so might as well go with subbed -- if you can find one).

[sidehacker]

There's a custom DVD of the same Japanese TV broadcast with custom English subs from the rather-beat up VHS (?) copy.

[Perkins Cobb]

This business of downloadable fan-subtitles really seems to be the future of hard-to-find movies passed around among collectors. Very often now when I Google some rare movie that's passing through NYC to see if there are copies of it out there, I get a hit on some Bit Torrent subtitles file. So I'm increasingly concerned by my complete lack of understanding on how to make this work. I've come across a few FAQs on the net that explain it, but they're all filled with lots of technobabble that's meaningless to me.

I'd be more than happy to join the Asian DVD Club and make any contribution that a non-Asian language speaker could, but they seem like a rather technologically exclusionary group.

[SalParadise]

Just thought I'd let you all know.

I live in China and I was surprised to see today copies of recently released Blu-ray titles at my local 'dvd (discount) store'. Regular DVDs normally go for €1.5 a pop. These blu-rays were going for €3.0 a pop! So I guess it's not that hard or expensive to produce these discs! I'm curious to see how many, if any, Chinese people will go out and buy a blu-player to view these discs. Half of the people still buy and watch VCD! You really got to hand it to the pirates in Guangdong. They have no need to produce them, they are not going to make a fortune out of them, but they simply have the beautiful desire to provide the Chinese consumer with cheap ultra-high quality movies, good on 'em!

I for sure am not going to fork out x amount of dollars for a blu-ray player! (well, perhaps if I had a freakin' awesome display I might...but just have a regular CRT.)

[Glynford]

I thought I read somewhere that all pre 1952 Japanese films were Public Domain. If that is the case the only thing subject to possible copyright would be the fan subs!

[Michael Kerpan]

I thought I read somewhere that all pre 1952 Japanese films were Public Domain. If that is the case the only thing subject to possible copyright would be the fan subs!

If one is releasing a DVD based on a public domain _source_ - - this would be true. But if a studio has done extensive restoration work on a film, the restoration itself might be copyrightable -- even if the underlying film is not. So simply copying a DVD of a copyrighted "restored version" might well violate copyright law.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

I live in China and I was surprised to see today copies of recently released Blu-ray titles at my local 'dvd (discount) store'. !

You sure these were actual BDs? The pirates around here have begun selling DVD-9s in Blu-ray (and even HD DVD!) packaging.