17 Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom

[kaujot]

Would this be a good place to start for Pasolini? Or maybe Momma Roma or Teorema instead?

[Matt]

Would this be a good place to start for Pasolini? Or maybe Momma Roma or Teorema instead?

Salo is a very different film from the rest of Pasolini's work. I think you can watch it first or last or anywhere in between if you keep that in mind. I'd start with something early and still in a neorealist vein if at all possible: Accatone!, Mamma Roma, or The Gospel According to St. Matthew.

[Daze]

Does anyone know why the new Criterion DVD is missing the 25-second poem scene? That footage appears in other recent DVD releases, so presumably it was available to Criterion and they chose not to include it.

I'm just curious, really.

[Darth Lavender]

For that matter, why was it lost/cut/whatever in the first place?
Only possibility I can think of is maybe some kind of accident. Perhaps it was at the end of a reel and got clipped by mistake or something. But, surely that shouldn't have affected so many different prints of the film.

[zedz]

Isn't it a rights issue with the poem's text?

It seems that the legal situation is different in the UK, and the film will probably be intact on the forthcoming BFI release.

[bdsweeney]

(Bit Darth you're going to have to risk imprisonment for trying to import it into Rudd's pristine Oz. Start practicing those prison bitch skills.)

I know you mean that partly as a joke, but I'm sure that it'd be as easy as hell to order it. If you order it through an online DVD store, get it sent by FedEx etc., it'd be in your hands in a matter of days.

Or does it not work like that? How do they check things like this?

Sorry, I know it's a bit off topic.

[der_Artur]

(Bit Darth you're going to have to risk imprisonment for trying to import it into Rudd's pristine Oz. Start practicing those prison bitch skills.)

I know you mean that partly as a joke, but I'm sure that it'd be as easy as hell to order it. If you order it through an online DVD store, get it sent by FedEx etc., it'd be in your hands in a matter of days.

Or does it not work like that? How do they check things like this?

Sorry, I know it's a bit off topic.

To go further off topic: At least in Germany one has to talk the police at the DA's command if customs find one of the "forbidden movies". I did this myself after "The Evil Dead" was found in a package I received from dvdpacific. The only good thing is: The DA mostly drops the case as it is a minor offense.

[relapser]

Did I understand that correctly? Owning Salo on DVD is illegal in Germany?

Anyway, I'm reading Sade's 120 Days of Sodom right now. There is some really unconventional sex going on in that book, eating feces, torture, etc. I'm guessing this film is pretty graphic. Its a long wait on netflix and I don't want to spend $30. Oh well I'll just have to wait.

[Tommaso]

Did I understand that correctly? Owning Salo on DVD is illegal in Germany?

No,it isn't. It is even released on dvd in Germany, although because of the youth protection regulations it cannot be sold officially via amazon or any other internet retailer (though I believe that is about to change or has already changed). Same applies or has applied to "Kill Bill Vol.1" or Greenaway's "Cook". "Evil Dead" is probably a different question, because it is actually on the 'index' and is not to be sold or imported by anyone (though you're probably allowed to own it). But as said above, it's certainly seen as a minor offence. Really interesting to know what would happen if someone at the German customs opened your package and found Riefenstahl's "Triumph"...

You see, it's all pretty ridiculous and almost like in OZ. However, as long as you import your stuff from other EU countries, you're unlikely to get into trouble with the customs.

[richast2]

The transfer, though, is gorgeous. A huge improvement over the previous release. It was nice to see actual colour and I have to say it was like watching a completely different film (I've only watched it through the older Criterion disc.) The audio has also been vastly improved.

I completely agree. In fact, I found myself wondering if the film had been re-subtitled. I feel like I got much more out of it this time around, and I've seen it a number of times.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

Well, I saw the film and it was and was not what I was expecting. Curious as to what he had to say and also to brace myself, I watched Gorin's presentation. I found it rather helpful (and upon later inspection much better than the printed supplements), but it still put a terrible dread in me. I moved on to the film with trepidation. It wasn't the constant bloodbath I was expecting, but I found the psychological violence throughout very, very creepy and disturbing. After the first hour I almost felt like this would be too easy or this be even more horrifying than I'd expected as if the sting was yet to come and be even worse. Not to minimize the first hour, though. The scene where the girl was tripped and then raped - that scream she gives when she is penetrated - really hit at home. Even just the simple stuff like the whipping or treating people like dogs was awful. However, that first hour was nothing compared to the second hour. I really have to say that the gestures toward greater horror are what make this film so unbearable - the banquet for instance I thought would be much longer, but its brevity made it more disgusting somehow. That second hour is something I really do not want to see anytime soon. It's not like my hands were constantly on my face or my stomach was in knots, but the intensity of the cruelty just felt so much worse. Don't think me a jaded gorehound, but the last ten minutes didn't move me at all. I felt like Pasolini made it so distant as to be stingless. The point of it I got, but it felt almost trivial to be showing it. I would call it a masterpiece, but I may need a few weeks or months before seeing it again.

As to all the academic justifying of the film, I have to say I'm somewhere in the middle. It is shot very carefully so as to resist all charges of exploitation so I will give it that much. It certainly succeeds at resisting Sontag's notion of "fascinating fascism". I also found the idea that the film is an exploration of the pornographic convincing. Gorin called it an allegory and I can go along with that idea. However, I'd say it's got to be an allegory for World War Two as a whole. That Pasolini is exploring the idea of the banality of evil. I think of the soldier saying, "Sorry, but we're under orders" being the best example of how people justify their actions for all things whether they're a Nazi or not. The characters denouncing each other was also an interesting commentary on the willing victim idea. So if the film is a masterpiece for exploring the pornographic and the banality of evil then I'd say do indeed watch it. However, I feel that the academic evaluation is far too anemic. They only seem to be discussing the film as an idea. It's hard to see the film in the abstract. Its formal beauties are there, but I feel rather irresponsible to say that I admire the film. If I say Salo is beautiful, I'll sound like a deranged criminal, jaded gorehound, or hopeless academic. I guess I'll just say it's framing and distance is beautiful. This has got to be a masterpiece, a failed masterpiece, or a total con. I mean, for some it feels like a bad joke, but it never breaks to wink or snigger. The film certainly makes its point well and provides a convincing argument, but I don't know if it had to be so Swiftian in extremis. I wouldn't say the film is cold and too academic because Pasolini does respect distance from the action and he does put in attractive actors as victims so as to excite sympathy rather than leering. I'm glad I saw it because the formal achievements are impressive, but it is a tough pill. I'd hardly call it the most horrifying movie ever, but it is one of those movies that really works on your mind (The Exorcist, for example). I didn't take a shower afterwards, but I did grab some Woody Allen to clear my mind. That didn't work so I watched To Be Or Not To Be the next day. Call me sensitive, but these pretty much are my initial reactions.

Moving on, could someone please tell me what's up with the two soldiers dancing at the end. I could not figure that out. Are they supposed to be fiddling while Rome burns? Is it something else? I thought that the movie would end on the dying victims or the dancing libertines instead of those two clowns. I was also a little puzzled by the libertines in drag and the bizarre pope's robe. Was it the camp factor that Maybury spoke of or just Pasolini satirizing them? I was rather tired the whole time I watched the film (maybe that's what blunted the horror somewhat?) so maybe I missed something.

[Narshty]

I didn't take a shower afterwards, but I did grab some Woody Allen to clear my mind. That didn't work so I watched To Be Or Not To Be the next day.

Oh, the irony...

Pasolini's phrase, an 'indigestible film', is dead-on. It's very difficult to work out a full reaction to it within the first few days (or even weeks) of seeing it - it's overwhelmingly confrontational in its approach. The lack of sympathy or emotion on the screen certainly leaves a viewer feeling totally isolated in their horror and disgust.

Perversely, I find the torture scenes at the end of the film to be not that bad as well, mostly because of the lack of sound (the sound of screaming is far worse than the sight of blood). I think it's part of Pasolini's whole point to start distancing the horrors as they get more and more extreme (as you say, the rape of the 'waitress' is stomach churning, as is the 'nails' sequence - both relatively restrained acts in the world of the film) and allow the viewer first-hand to experience how it is easier to accept these deeds as the human element is lessened, even as the acts themselves get progressively worse.

[Jean-Luc Garbo]

I didn't take a shower afterwards, but I did grab some Woody Allen to clear my mind. That didn't work so I watched To Be Or Not To Be the next day.

Oh, the irony...

Well, I had been wanting to see the Lubitsch for awhile. When I bought the Warner Classic Comedies Collection a few days ago I had the chance. Plus it was another controversial film about World War Two. Like I said, I really needed something else to clear my mind.

[criterionsnob]

New blog post which explains the missing scene (kind of).

[colinr0380]

Perversely, I find the torture scenes at the end of the film to be not that bad as well, mostly because of the lack of sound (the sound of screaming is far worse than the sight of blood). I think it's part of Pasolini's whole point to start distancing the horrors as they get more and more extreme (as you say, the rape of the 'waitress' is stomach churning, as is the 'nails' sequence - both relatively restrained acts in the world of the film) and allow the viewer first-hand to experience how it is easier to accept these deeds as the human element is lessened, even as the acts themselves get progressively worse.

I agree and feel that at the start of the film we're with the victims as they're rounded up and introduced to the world. Slowly, as the victims remain almost completely characterless and frustratingly passive we slowly transfer our focus (if not our sympathies, hopefully) onto the 'libertines', their stories and their philosophies just to try and understand them. By the final sequence we are seeing events fully from their perspective rather than suffering with those being killed.

In a sense we are being dehumanised as viewers until none of the extreme acts really matter because we are not able to care for those suffering on anything but the most basic level of seeing people horribly mutilated before our eyes. The only people showing any reaction are those who are getting off on it, whether the guards who are enjoying the power and status as the right hand men to our jaded quartet who are allowed to kill without guilt or repercussions, or the quartet themselves taking pleasure in their acts - not particularly because of any particular malice against the person the torture is being performed on (they're interchangable, except perhaps for the angelic blonde girl who suffers the worst fates) but for the pleasure of indulging themselves in the forbidden.

[Narshty]

I didn't take a shower afterwards, but I did grab some Woody Allen to clear my mind. That didn't work so I watched To Be Or Not To Be the next day.

Oh, the irony...

Well, I had been wanting to see the Lubitsch for awhile. When I bought the Warner Classic Comedies Collection a few days ago I had the chance. Plus it was another controversial film about World War Two. Like I said, I really needed something else to clear my mind.

Not having a pop, just amused you'd level yourself with another movie denouncing fascism (albeit in an entirely different register).

[zedz]

New blog post which explains the missing scene (kind of).

And suggests that the scene might not be in the new BFI transfer after all (though surely they'd include it as a 'deleted scene'?)

[MyNameCriterionForum]

This how I came across copies of In a Glass Cage (a completely dreadful movie BTW)

"Dreadful" as in you think it's a poor movie or "dreadful" as in you think it's an unpleasant one?

[MichaelB]

And suggests that the scene might not be in the new BFI transfer after all (though surely they'd include it as a 'deleted scene'?)

I'll confirm the second I get a checkdisc - probably very soon now.

Just to add an addendum to that blog post, James White came to the BFI a couple of years after the release of the original DVD of Salo, which is why he didn't know anything about the print source. He's also well aware of that transfer's rather major shortcomings, and even the new SD-DVD should be a colossal improvement.

[colinr0380]

This how I came across copies of In a Glass Cage (a completely dreadful movie BTW.)

"Dreadful" as in you think it's a poor movie or "dreadful" as in you think it's an unpleasant one?

I think it is up there with Salon Kitty in davidhare's estimations!

[flyonthewall2983]

Just curious, but how many other Morricone-scored films are in the Collection?

[CSM126]

Just curious, but how many other Morricone-scored films are in the Collection?

Fists in the Pocket
The Battle of Algiers
White Dog

[Panda]

Don't forget "Days of Heaven" for Morricone scored films in the CC.

I never tire of hearing it.

Panda

[MichaelB]

Mind you, neither Salo nor Days of Heaven are exactly vintage Morricone - the most memorable parts of each score were composed by others, namely Carl Orff and Camille Saint-Saens.

[MyNameCriterionForum]

Tras el Cristal/is both a nasty exploitative movie, and VERY poorly made.

Really? I remember it being nearly as well made a Lynch film, though much less comforting... perhaps I should have a look at it again.