17 Salò, or the 120 Days of Sodom

[Barmy]

Whether or not Salo was intended to be a message film, it does not need to be viewed as such. It has an interesting storyline, stunningly gorgeous cinematography (which frankly looks a bit thin and overly clean on the DVD caps I have seen) and several good, albeit idiosyncratic, performances. And to some degree, it plays as a black comedy.

[swo17]

there are many other Italian movies that make the same statement, "fascism is bad", and much more effectively than Salo.

I never really thought of Salo as a simple allegory of why fascism is bad. Rather, I see it as Pasolini saying "here is how much I hate mankind" from the perspective of one who was suppressed by fascism. In that sense, I think the film works, though I admittedly have little desire to ever watch it again (except maybe to see the new Criterion transfer) and the one time I did watch it, I looked a lot like justeleblanc's avatar through most of it. I think Salo works better as a talking point (with some time removed after having seen it) than as a viewing experience.

However, I think the film should also be considered in the context of Pasolini's entire oeuvre. For instance, I find it very interesting that the director of Salo also made The Gospel According to St. Matthew (which I know some people claim is a cynical telling of the Christ story, but I don't completely buy this).

[Michael]

My respect for Salo is tremendous, to think of a film like this to be made 30 years ago is incredibly inspiring.

Why?

Because Pasolini went out of the way completely to make the film with no fear. And in Italy of all places, one of the most homophobic, Catholic cultures. What drove Pasolini to make Salo - the guts, the passion, the fearlessness of an artist. I find very inspiring no matter what.

That was a very different era than today with the wave of ridiculous torture porn fests. Kids today are spoiled and reduced by all this ridiculousness. It'd be no surprise to me if those very kids find Salo boring and pointless.

[domino harvey]

That was a very different era than today with the wave of ridiculous torture porn fests. Kids today are spoiled and reduced by all this ridiculousness. It'd be no surprise to me if those very kids find Salo boring and pointless.

I'm not sure who "these kids" are, but ageism is a pretty stupid basis for any argument-- especially when to the best of my knowledge, no one in this thread has expressed any affinity for the "torture porn" genre

[mfunk9786]

Besides, it is boring and pointless.

[dr gennesier]

I agree with Michael. I think Salo is a masterpiece. Domino, what is so difficult about the concept that life experience will drastically color ones attitude toward and lessons learned from great works of art?

[Michael]

That was a very different era than today with the wave of ridiculous torture porn fests. Kids today are spoiled and reduced by all this ridiculousness. It'd be no surprise to me if those very kids find Salo boring and pointless.

I'm not sure who "these kids" are, but ageism is a pretty stupid basis for any argument-- especially when to the best of my knowledge, no one in this thread has expressed any affinity for the "torture porn" genre

You're stupid for not getting it.

[mfunk9786]

Will someone please, please, please elaborate on what life lessons they learned from Salo?

Because if someone comes out as detesting it (and really, Salo is a film that the word detest was created for), they are simply labeled as too prudish to be able to handle it.

By whom?

You're stupid for not getting it.

[Michael]

Where did I say I call you "prudish"?

[mfunk9786]

In the case of this film, they're really interchangeable. But the idea of the discussion of this film boiling down to detractors of this film being called stupid is nauseating. Simply because they aren't enthralled by a controversial film being made in Italy in the 70s out of rebellion. Oh, big whoop. The resulting film is still garbage.

Are we now saying that if Uwe Boll is run over by an angry male prostitute tomorrow, Postal suddenly becomes a work of profound art?

[dr gennesier]

Well, what "life lessons" did you learn from Citizen Kane? Really, for someone who finds the movie boring and pointless you seem to spend a great deal of time denigrating it with no really well thought out reasons

[mfunk9786]

Domino, what is so difficult about the concept that life experience will drastically color ones attitude toward and lessons learned from great works of art?

Well, what "life lessons" did you learn from Citizen Kane?

You're the person who brought up the "lessons learned from great works of art" business in the first place, champ.

[domino harvey]

Domino, what is so difficult about the concept that life experience will drastically color ones attitude toward and lessons learned from great works of art?

How old must I be before I have been colored enough by life? Seriously, this is the worst way to defend a film and it's beyond insulting. You can't tell anything about people based on their age other than, you know, their age

[dr gennesier]

Salo is not a profound movie. Very far from it. It's ideas are simplistic in the extreme. it was the fact that few actually live by those ideas are what made Pas film his sucker punch to the medulla. mfunk, the fact this movie bothers you so much is proof of it's greatness. That is what it is supposed to do.

[Antoine Doinel]

As one who thinks this is one of the worst films I've ever seen, I feel what you're saying mfunk, but I think you're analysis a little off base if not somewhat hostile (though watching this film can provoke that kind of reaction). How else do you expect people to respond when you invoke NAMBLA into the conversation? There is actually some really good, reasoned criticism of the film a few pages back but this thread is getting a little ridiculous.

And I agree with Domino on the "life experience" argument. By that measure, I might as well just stop watching films now and start again when I'm eighty so I can have a better "appreciation" of them. Utter bs. Some people have "lived" more in their 20s than most people do in their entire lifetime.

And dr. g, the "if the film gets a reaction it's a masterpiece" argument is crap and has already been more thoroughly vetted in this thread than Palin for VP (hi-yo!).

[aox]

I agree with Michael. I think Salo is a masterpiece. Domino, what is so difficult about the concept that life experience will drastically color ones attitude toward and lessons learned from great works of art?

You're confusing two separate things. Life experience does color one's perception of the art they take in; however, that doesn't mean that it would fall in the favor you are seeking.

For all you know, younger people would like this film and, as they mature, begin to detest it for what it really is. That is why the ageism is bullshit.

[Michael]

In the case of this film, they're really interchangeable. But the idea of the discussion of this film boiling down to detractors of this film being called stupid is nauseating. Simply because they aren't enthralled by a controversial film being made in Italy in the 70s out of rebellion. Oh, big whoop. The resulting film is still garbage.

It's not whether you like Salo or not. It's not my favorite film but I still defend it. It's perfectly wonderful that you detest Salo but failing or ignoring to respect or at least appreciate Pasolini's passionate drive to make this very fucked up piece of Italian history that ripped off the surface of all the taboos that still keeps Italy inside its bubble to this day is a tragedy.

[mfunk9786]

As one who thinks this is one of the worst films I've ever seen, I feel what you're saying mfunk, but I think you're analysis a little off base if not somewhat hostile (though watching this film can provoke that kind of reaction). How else do you expect people to respond when you invoke NAMBLA into the conversation?

I was just trying to make a point that despite the fact that it's reported that the set wasn't as gruesome to be on as it may appear, it was still a travesty that these young actors were even recruited to make this film. I was obviously reaching a bit to make that point, but I figure people will understand that and therefore not take it so literally.

mfunk, the fact this movie bothers you so much is proof of it's greatness. That is what it is supposed to do.

That's such a bullshit argument. For the record, the movie doesn't bother me the way Pasolini wants it to bother me, but regardless, that's another awful defense of a bad movie. By this logic, those August Underground movies would sweep the Oscars every year.

[Michael]

I'm not comfortable with the word "ageism". It's not what I meant. I just got angry by mfunk's completely midguided attack on Salo and it threw me into venting out my anger inappropriately (but very briefly fortunately).

Apologies to you, domino harvey.

[dr gennesier]

A great work of art doesn't have to teach a lesson. It can, but it doesn't have to. Actually, you can tell a great deal about someone based on their age AND life experiences. & yes, I think viewing a move when you are 40 would be and should be a very different experience than when viewed in your 20's. If you think not, than I really feel sorry for you.

[Michael]

A great work of art doesn't have to teach a lesson. It can, but it doesn't have to. Actually, you can tell a great deal about someone based on their age AND life experiences. & yes, I think viewing a move when you are 40 would be and should be a very different experience than when viewed in your 20's. If you think not, than I really feel sorry for you.

I'm so with you dr gennesier on that post.

[dr gennesier]

I didn't know there was an Oscar category for "Most Disturbing". Ya learn something new everyday. Oh, wait I don't cause that would be ageism.

Y learn something new everyday. Oh, wait I don't cause that would be ageism.

[MichaelB]

I think viewing a move when you are 40 would be and should be a very different experience than when viewed in your 20's. If you think not, than I really feel sorry for you.

And for that reason, I'm very much looking forward to watching the Blu-Ray of Salo - next week, hopefully.

I think there's been about a decade between each viewing (mid-1980s in Italy - excellent print but no subtitles; early 1990s in Britain - notorious mangled UK rep print; early 2000s on DVD - disappointing first BFI version), and I've had a different reaction every time.

[dr gennesier]

MichaelB, can you explain how your reaction changed over the years? I have had a very similar change since the first time i saw it.

[kaujot]

I didn't know there was an Oscar category for "Most Disturbing". Ya learn something new everyday. Oh, wait I don't cause that would be ageism.

What?