fiddlesticks wrote:Wow, you're one tough customer. Since you don't trust either a professional reviewer or the very horse's mouth itself, there's no reason you should trust little ol' me, but just the same I'll re-confirm that Celine and Julie has optional English subs.
Sorry to appear so mistrustful, but as I wrote earlier I own the BFI Le Cercle rouge, and subs are not removable despite what DVDBeaver says; furtheremore, I just checked and they say the same for Tristana despite my experience (unless I managed by sheer chance to get DVD players that are both defeated by BFI's subtitles function). And BFI's failture to respond was not conducive to trust.
Thanks for taking the time to confirm the situation regarding the Rivette; perhaps I will eventually take the plunge.
It's interesting to compare cdnchris' reviews of these two Melville titles to DVDBeaver's. They both note some technical deficiencies, but they don't come to the same global conclusion, Gary Tooze's being less harsh in his overall assessment.
We will be in a position to judge for ourselves in about 2 weeks (which is still too long!). In the mean-time, I'll have to give a spin to my copy of a Russian edition of Le Deuxième Souffle to see if the print shows the same problems as the one used by Criterion.
Watched Le deuxieme souffle the other day and was quite pleased with the film. It seems that as Melville got older, his films became more patient. The pacing on this film is almost hypnotic, very deliberate without ever being slow-- I mean, the film is actually longer than Criterion lists it, but it never feels it. What's somewhat odd about the film is how Melville is clearly enamored with several of the supporting characters and so the time devoted to some of the minor players is disproportionate. While a bit sloppy, it does help to break up the viewer's grasp on the film's trajectory. Add to this a couple of classic Melville scenes, such as a murder investigation where the tired inspector answers for every suspect's alibi without their help, or that wonderful business with the gun on the top of the cabinet, and this was a solid entry in the director's oeuvre.
I just watched "Le deuxieme souffle" and absolutely loved it. It now ranks right under "Army of Shadows" for me. I was sucked in immediately, from the claustrophobic opening image, mid-prison break. There certainly is a great deal of patience in the film, but Melville expertly sustains the tension the entire time. I'm horrible at writing about why I love a movie, so I'll stop there.
As someone who was underwhelmed by "Bob le Flambeur", I have been hesitant in picking up "Le doulos". I love all of his later films that I've seen, but I'm unsure about some of his earlier stuff. Any thoughts?
jorencain wrote:I just watched "Le deuxieme souffle" and absolutely loved it. It now ranks right under "Army of Shadows" for me. I was sucked in immediately, from the claustrophobic opening image, mid-prison break. There certainly is a great deal of patience in the film, but Melville expertly sustains the tension the entire time. I'm horrible at writing about why I love a movie, so I'll stop there.
As someone who was underwhelmed by "Bob le Flambeur", I have been hesitant in picking up "Le doulos". I love all of his later films that I've seen, but I'm unsure about some of his earlier stuff. Any thoughts?
I didn't care for 'Bob' the first time I saw it: perhaps it was the cheesy 'lounge music' that put me off, initially, but now I love it.
(infinitely superior to the Neil Jordan 'remake').
'Le Doulos' wouldn't be up there with 'Cercle Rouge' when it comes to his crime dramas, but its still a great film with a bizarre ending, but features a particularly memorable performance by Serge Reggiani.
I haven't seen 'Le deuxieme souffle' yet: I've only just received it, but 'L'Armee' is still probably my favourite.
Yojimbo wrote:'L'Armee' is still probably my favourite.
Not necc my absolute favorite Melville (though more viewings may change that), but definitely one of my most treasured recent film-going experiences.
have you seen 'Silence De La Mer'?
as someone who's always loved Bresson's 'Diary of a Country Priest' that one knocked me for six: did Bresson ever come clean, because if the Melville film didn't influence it then lightning really does strike twice in the same place
(I've still to catch up on 'Leon Morin: Pretre', though, but there's obviously more to Melville than the popular perception of him as just a 'transplanter of American gangster/heist movies')
HerrSchreck wrote:Yes, though without subs (Silence)... I need to grab the MoC, though I've heard mixed reviews about the sub job.
its the MoC I have: if you're a fan of the Bresson I'd be interested to hear what you think.
I think I recall reading Melville saying that Bresson did it better, although that might have been false modesty on his part.
It had been at least 10 years since my previous viewing of 'Diary' but it struck me immediately on viewing 'Silence'.
If nothing else, though, it proved for me what a great, and greatly underrated, director Melville was.
jorencain wrote:I just watched "Le deuxieme souffle" and absolutely loved it. It now ranks right under "Army of Shadows" for me. I was sucked in immediately, from the claustrophobic opening image, mid-prison break. There certainly is a great deal of patience in the film, but Melville expertly sustains the tension the entire time. I'm horrible at writing about why I love a movie, so I'll stop there.
As someone who was underwhelmed by "Bob le Flambeur", I have been hesitant in picking up "Le doulos". I love all of his later films that I've seen, but I'm unsure about some of his earlier stuff. Any thoughts?
Just watched "Le deuxieme souffle" for the first time last night: apart from the opening jailbreak, there was a deliberate almost Bressonian style about much of the film.
(interesting given 'Silence De La Mer's' apparent influence on Bresson)
But I thought this almost like the ideal 'partner' for 'L'Armee Des Ombres': the criminal 'underworlds' equivalent of the Resistance fighter's 'word is my bond', and sense of honour being the overriding theme
It seemed to me to be the crucible of all Melville's later films, actually: the opening epigram, the heist, the code of honour among criminals, the implacable detective, the nightclub scenes, the trenchcoats, the hats! Le Deuxieme Souffle is really the beginning of Melville 2.0. And Orloff is effectively the first appearance of Jef Costello.
reaky wrote:It seemed to me to be the crucible of all Melville's later films, actually: the opening epigram, the heist, the code of honour among criminals, the implacable detective, the nightclub scenes, the trenchcoats, the hats! Le Deuxieme Souffle is really the beginning of Melville 2.0. And Orloff is effectively the first appearance of Jef Costello.
yes, I wonder were they the same dancers as featured in 'La Cercle Rouge'?
(it certainly seemed to be the same nightclub: perhaps it was part of his studios)
reaky wrote:It seemed to me to be the crucible of all Melville's later films, actually: the opening epigram, the heist, the code of honour among criminals, the implacable detective, the nightclub scenes, the trenchcoats, the hats! Le Deuxieme Souffle is really the beginning of Melville 2.0. And Orloff is effectively the first appearance of Jef Costello.
I agree with you that many of his later film contain these elements, but Le doulos from 4 years earlier also contains all of them, so I don't know why you give credit to Le deuxieme souffle.
Agreed, but I suppose it's that I find Le Doulos more unified and plotty (final twist/explication/denouement), and I suppose as a result more conventional, whereas with Le Deuxieme Souffle Melville has reached the point where mood is of primary importance. He continued to shuffle and refashion favoured tropes from then on, resulting in baggier, almost disjointed films, really suites of scenes. In this respect he reminds me of Howard Hawks revisiting Rio Bravo in El Dorado and Rio Lobo.
reaky wrote:Agreed, but I suppose it's that I find Le Doulos more unified and plotty (final twist/explication/denouement), and I suppose as a result more conventional, whereas with Le Deuxieme Souffle Melville has reached the point where mood is of primary importance. He continued to shuffle and refashion favoured tropes from then on, resulting in baggier, almost disjointed films, really suites of scenes. In this respect he reminds me of Howard Hawks revisiting Rio Bravo in El Dorado and Rio Lobo.
I couldn't agree with you more regarding 'Souffle', but he was more successful in creating a unified coherent whole with 'L'Armee' and 'Cercle'
I watched Le Deuxieme Souffle a couple of days ago and really loved it. I remember now that when I first fell in love with Le Samourai many many years ago, reading up on Melville suggested that this was the next best bet. L'Armee des ombres, which I'd also seen and loved, was sort of critical terra incognita at the time, though it would probably be the darling nowadays. So t was great to finally catch up with the film and not be disappointed.
Where Le Samourai is stripped back and exquisitely minimal, Le Deuxieme Souffle is dense and detailed, like L'Armee, though still lean and reticent. I was impressed by how the magnificent heist sequence was staged like the big climax it would have been in most other films, even though its function here is more like another staging post in a larger plot - there's still an hour or so to go after it's concluded, even though it feels like it was the moment the film has been building up to, and it pays off dramatically in those terms.
The two obvious comparisons are with Criterion's other policiers of 2008, Le Doulos and Classe tous risques. The Melville was very impressively engineered, but it felt rather too mechanical in its plotting for my comfort, with ironies falling into place all too fatalistically. The Sautet film, which has a lot of similarities with Le Deuxieme Souffle, including Ventura, was enjoyable enough, but seemed very thin alongside the later film, lacking the dramatic muscle that Melville's set pieces bring to the table. And in my opinion Melville also tops Sautet in terms of the less heightened, 'ordinary' scenes, such as the lovely sequence in which Ventura travels to his new hideout on local buses.
Just finished Le Doulos and have to put it second to Le Cercle Rouge for me.....just fantastic from start to finish. I was expecting a lot more girl slapping given the hubbub earlier in this thread, but it was all fairly tame if you ask me, considering what she may - or may not - have done to earn it. On that count, the Bosses dame comes through quite nicely I might add, and gives a little saucy flash as well.
For me, Army of Shadows is Melville's Masterpiece on a pedestal by itslef, w/ Le Cercle Rouge my favorite among his crime films. I enjoyed this one better than Bob and even Samourai...and now need to move on to Le Deuxieme Souffle...the the comments here on it's more serious tone have me both leery and intrigued. I do have one question regarding the 1:66 transfer these are both supposed to have...on my 16x9 Viera display, both fill up the screen in the normal view setting of the tv, and I could not find any way to get an image with the smaller black bars along the edge that I should get were it a real 1.66:1 anamorphic transfer. I'm sure it's my player or tv, but I wondered if anyone else had this issue? I'm just curious if i was losing picture at the top and bottom or something.
My other query is what people think about Le Doulos in comparison to the Becker stuff - specifically Casque d'or & Touchez pas au grisbi - or the other one offs in the collection like Classe tous risques? Those I have not picked up yet, but are high on my list....because i fell in love with Mellville's keen eye for the gangster flick, i've put my $ towards his stuff exclusively so far - other than Rififi that is. Would just like to hear some comparative discussion of where they fit with Melville, and vice versa....is Jean Pierre the King and the others aspiring to his level, or is there more of a Pantheon of French Gangster greatness he's merely one element of?
Touchez pas au grisbi is a stone cold masterpiece. It's got Melville's attention to detail, but it's very different in tone - it's almost incidental that it's a crime film. Casque d'Or is a completely different kettle of fish, with Becker in Renoir mode. But if you haven't seen Le Trou yet, make a beeline for it. You're in for a hell of a treat. The Criterion disc is bare bones, but the film is so great it's still one of their most essential releases.
