Murnau, Borzage and Fox

[HerrSchreck]

Borflix Karflox!

Or is that Borzage Karloff?

Waiter!

[Se7en082]

Ola t is a brave man. A child and a cat that close to the set? Almost got a panic attack just by looking at the pictures.

[Mark Metcalf]

Now that I've watched all the discs, I'm disappointed that several of these films are forgettable trifles, like They Had to See Paris, and Young America.

[peerpee]

Boring shipping details warning.

Finally received my copy of MURNAU/BORZAGE here in the UK. Ordered from amazon.com -- took weeks. Received a card through the door today saying I owed £26.85 GBP in customs charges and I had to go and pick it up from the sorting office miles away. The charge was made up of £18.00 import duty, and £8.85 Royal Mail handling charge. This latter charge boggles my mind, especially as postage has already been paid for, and since they don't even bother attempting delivery. Such items are never delivered to the door anymore because posties have been stopped from accepting cash at the door. So folk have to drive miles to the sorting office to pick up items in person and pay for the privilege of doing so.

When a system is so transparently flawed, it endears nothing but resentment for the system and the 'service'.

The box arrived in perfect shape. It had been packed in a snug fitting hard cardboard box that was placed inside a less snug amazon.com box. The item itself is larger and heavier than any other DVD related item I own -- including my DVD player -- and I'm not really impressed by such packaging. Would have preferred Fox to have produced one large format book available separately, and to present all the films in thin Eclipse style cases for $80 or something.

Just glad to have it before Xmas...

Would be interested to hear stories from other UK folk regarding delivery/charges/damage, etc.

[reno dakota]

The charge was made up of £18.00 import duty, and £8.85 Royal Mail handling charge. This latter charge boggles my mind, especially as postage has already been paid for, and since they don't even bother attempting delivery.

Royal Mail charged you a "handling fee" because they payed the import duty on your behalf when your item arrived from Customs. See here. I worked out a trade with another UK forum member earlier in the year and he was charged the same fee.

[kaujot]

When I was studying in London a few years ago, I was really flummoxed by the massive amount that Royal Mail charged me for my DVD copy of the then new edition of The Big Lebowski. £15! That's way more than I paid for the item! I also was similarly gobsmacked by them not actually delivering packages.

And what's up with having to bag your own groceries?

[peerpee]

Royal Mail charged you a "handling fee" because they payed the import duty on your behalf when your item arrived from Customs. See here. I worked out a trade with another UK forum member earlier in the year and he was charged the same fee.

Yeah, I understand that. Must be a nice little earner for them -- seeing as there's no alternative. It's like a Corleone scheme.

[colinr0380]

And what's up with having to bag your own groceries?

That's nothing. These days you have to bring your own bag for them!

[Zazou dans le Metro]

The charge was made up of £18.00 import duty, and £8.85 Royal Mail handling charge. This latter charge boggles my mind, especially as postage has already been paid for, and since they don't even bother attempting delivery.

Royal Mail charged you a "handling fee" because they payed the import duty on your behalf when your item arrived from Customs. See here. I worked out a trade with another UK forum member earlier in the year and he was charged the same fee.

Well after torturing myself for the past weeks on how the Royal Mail was going to royally fuck up the box in transit I can now report that Santa does exist and delivered the box in pristine condition without any excess charges. I think that sometimes Amazon.com route via Deutsche Post (as in this case) and it fools someone somewhere in thinking it's a european affair and avoids duty.

Anyway I reckon it proves that what goes round comes round since I got a parcel last week (The Lynch Lime green set) which tells a different tale. Although miraculously avoiding customs duty it was delivered by a 'seasonal' worker instead of my usual Postie, who whenever I'm out normally leaves stuff in an accessible cellar for me. However his relief put a note through my door informing me that the large parcel too big for my letter box had been left in the large grey plastic bin out front. The bin in question was the water butt, which although empty in the morning filled after a full day's rain and I am now the proud owner of The David Lynch Lime Green Papier Maché set

[kaujot]

And what's up with having to bag your own groceries?

That's nothing. These days you have to bring your own bag for them!

Things have deteriorated so fast.

[domino harvey]

For anyone like me who didn't realize it, apparently all of these films are on Netflix, for those on the fence with packaging concerns or the films themselves

[Adam]

But if you wish to own, here's an update from my trip to Costco today.
I went to a Los Angeles Costco, on Los Feliz Blvd in Atwater Village. They had several copies of the box, labeled at $179.99.
After being depressed about teh price for a minute, I noticed that they had tags strung above with discounts on boxes that I saw weren't mentioned on the box. After carefully checking, I saw one that said something like "Fox TV Megaboxes, list $179,99, Mfg rebate at register 60.00, total at register $119.99, sales tax taken on price before rebate." The tag listed a Costco item number, which I checked against the Murnau box, and it matched! Took it to the register, sure enough $119.99, good until 12/31.

I picked up another one, the Fox/MGM Ultimate Westerns collection, listed at $99.99, $30 off, $69.99 total. The tag above said "Fox Western, Sci-Fi, list $99.99. Mfg rebate $30, total at register $69.99, sales tax on price before rebate." At the register, that one showed up first as $99.99. I asked him to check again, and it came up as $69.99. I haven't opened yet. I hope some of the special features from the Leone films & "Bonnie & Clyde" are in it. Spur-of-the-moment purchase, as it were.

Edit to add: This is reasonably nice. in a big box that won't fit on any shelf though, comes a spiral "book" with a page or two for each film, with a photo or two, then a cardboard page with slots for the DVDs. The Special Feature DVDs are included. Dances With Wolves is a flipper DVD for the film and a DVD for the features. The other films: The Big Trail, The Westerner, Red River, Broken Arrow, The Magnificent Seven, The Comancheros, A Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, Good Bad & Ugly, Hang 'Em High, Butch Cassidy & the Sundance Kid, The Missouri Breaks. Dances with Wolves.

So check those tags! And as I mentioned, there were 4 or 5 more at the Costco on Los Feliz.
I went to the Costco on Sepulveda about ten days ago, and they didn't have any copies of the Murnau-Borzage box there at that time.
Edit: My friend is calling me from the Culver City Costco where there are 4 copies of the Murnau box.

They also had the Fox/MGM Hitchcock collection at I think $60 after rebate, but I didn't buy it, as I have the Criterions of Notorious, Spellbound, and Rebecca, so I might be remembering that price incorrectly.

[HerrSchreck]

What an indispensable collection-- really just a labor of love on Bergstrom's part. When she hinted to me at the possibility of such a box coming out, I was in awe that Fox-- of all companies-- would put out such a thing, devoted almost exclusively to silent film. The Ford box was amazing enough... but this box just takes the cake. In my book it's the greatest box set from any major studio, and for its bravery perhaps exceeds even Unseen Cinema from Image & the Edison box from Kino.

One of the things that struck me was something that had never occured to me before: that both directors reeled in actors who resembled them. Farrell (this box really is, by default, the Charles Farrell show) resembles Borzage in his youth; and George O'Brien, I now realized, resembles Murnau quite a bit.

Some preliminary observations... the pre-Murnau Borzage in Lazybones was on the brink of a very unique kind of melodrama: extremely tightly edited, subtly acted, never giving way to the gesticulatory excesses of the Hollywood of that time... but-- and this is what I really loved-- what really stood out for me was the stellar blending and playing off one one another strong elements of comedy and pathos/drama. With each element deployed in complement to the other, the effect by contrast of each is very poignant.

Seeing City Girl for the first time in a clear full print in beautiful telecine, where all the light effects are fully rendered and experienced for total original effect (finally can toss those old dvd-rs of this titles), the film has moved for me from a minor work to a major one, despite the skewing of the melodrama's proper amping viz the studios interference (I wholeheartedly agree w Murnaus wish that Kate's slapping occur later; her angst peaks too early in the narrative and causes the melodrama to flatline in a constance of misery). The scenes in the city, and return to the country with his bride-- the running thru the wheat is utterly exquisite-- is among the best Murnau you'll see.

Also of note in this film-- in contrast to Borzage's use of the big lug-- is Murnau's handling of Farrell and his hokey lunkhead tendencies... which is far more tolerable and subtle vs Borzage's tendency to overdo it... or not realize he's overdoing it.

But of course Murnau is Murnau, and comparisons to him are unfair-- even for Borz.

[fdm]

Decided to go with a replacement from amazon. Night and day wrt the disks, the replacements are mostly clean, and pretty much scratch-free (a couple of them look a bit smudged here and there, but that's about it). (I think possibly overnight shipping (vs 2-day) may have helped to reduce some of the wear and tear on the disks (pretty good shape all in all) and on the book that holds the disks (still a little bit of wear on the booklet holder thingies, but not nearly so bad), so all in all looks like I have a reasonably clean set now.

(Not sure what the story was with the ones in the first set that were really scratched up (aka gouged).)

[denti alligator]

It's unbelievable, this box.

Hard to believe Fox did it. God bless Janet Bergstrom! I mean, I can't imagine this is going to be a big seller.

Everyone should go out of their way to get this set. It's worth about three years' of Criterions.

David, I haven't watched the European version of Sunrise yet, but judging by Gary's caps at the Beaver, it looks vastly better than the Movietone version. Isn't it shorter, though? What's missing? I'm glad to hear the framing isn't an issue. The one comparison cap Gary posted makes the 1.33 framing of the European version look off.

[HerrSchreck]

Some thoughts--

Yes Dave you rightly point out the distinction I'm trying to make here-- the difference between lunkhead characters (Murnau en toto, on which we are definitely in agreement) and lunkhead actors (Farrell). Charles Farrell definitely exhibits consistent enough tendencies throughout whatever text he wades thru that I see the guy as a lunkhead. At least at this point in his youth... the conceit: tipping of the body stiffly to the side, the pained raising of the eyebrows, and the extending of the arms palms out like a panhandler for Tenderness & Understanding. It's a beautifully pure and salutary gesture, very Borzagean, but I'm not clear that this was a consistent direction on Borzage's part (there's a moment in City Girl where Farrell deflates, neutered by his poisonous pop, and goes into an atrophied version of the Farrell Slump while explaining his disposition to Kate). I do agree that Lucky Star (his first fumblings & stumblings-- my god the time-lapse superimpositions-- onto his crutches, exceeds, incidentally, Chaney!) is the best of his Borzage performances... that & City Girl are his best silent performances for sure.

I'd never seen The River before... I actually think it works better shorn of it's first reel, drained of Time, PLace, Specificity... it adds to it's mythic quality-- increases the sense of Boy.. Woman.. Noplace.. Everyplace. The sense of sexual mystery, it registers almost as greek myth.

I'd love to run both Sunrise's side-by-side to see what's missing. Fox actually did an odd thing-- they snipped up the Movietone soundtrack from the major release print (1.19) and spliced it in to the silent version... the different shot lengths etc are testified to by the fact that the synchsound cannot run uninterrupted due to a different montage and editing schema.

This box is so fucking awesome. Everybody should send an email of sincere thanks to Janet for getting these Miracles Of Home Vid through the front office-- particularly this one and during a rotten recession (that this of all boxes hit during the worst shopping season on record in 40 YEARS should make those holders of immaculate boxes-- the books are absolutely fabbo-- reel with joyful dizziness). If you're reading this Janet--

Here's to ya! Over and above the call of duty.

Question for those who've seen the docu in this box, and the little Expressionism docu on the Filmmusuem River release: is the German disc's docu entirely unique from the contents of this Fox Box? And if so, is it worth chasing down strictly on those terms, since I held out for the R1 which I knew was coming? (When the 125100 thing went down, the Filmmuseum thing was at pre-order on amazon... and this was coincidentally when I heard from Janet B about this box, so I just held out for the R1 bonanza).

[Tom Hagen]

Not to be a cheapskate buzzkill on this, but . . . does anyone know of any plans to release the two Murnau titles or the doc in a smaller box (ala the Ford boxes) or as seperate individual titles?

[HerrSchreck]

As far as the overall box set being broken into smaller boxes: Nope, and I doubt they will, because the Borzages are have such a low recognition factor-- this unlike the Ford films, which were more talkie than silent, and had some of the most beloved sound films ever made among them.

This is the kind of thing where you either Know What This Box Is and flip your lid in gratitude for it's mere existence, or you don't and simply wont care. There's really no way to divide by genre or talkie/silent (Fox Ford Comedies, Ford Silents, etc)... they're mostly silents, and the talkies are even less known than the silents.

Fox , Bergstrom and company made this in limited qty and sold for a hefty ticket price for film professionals, film academics and preservation folks, and cineastes like Hare & Dent & I who they know will hack with a machete thru crowds of their own most beloved to get to this box set, which is beyond the fulfillment of a dream. The discs, the books, ye gods..

Do yourself a favor cheapskate... or take advantage of the fact that Netflix made em all available. Netflix Lucky Star or Street Angel (I'm assuming you've seen Sunrise before) to get in the know, then grab the best box set your little heart could desire..

(As for the Murnau's-- I doubt it. They had that fabulous edition of Sunrise/4 Devils that preceded it which was the digibeta-source for the MoC's and whomever else presented it globally, and they never really placed it on the shelves.)

[swo17]

I believe the only way to own Sunrise in R1-Utahland (and R1-elsewhere) is through the cheapo Best Picture Collection or the mondo Borz-Mur-Fox box. I can understand that Sunrise is the main draw here, and that if they unboxed it, many fewer people would go for the individual Borzages or the box as a whole. But I would be very surprised if they didn't, in a few years maybe, give it its own standalone release, when it's all grown up and can fend for itself. I mean, c'mon, this is Sunrise we're talking about. It needs its breathing room.

[Scharphedin2]

What better way to end the year than to devote a few lines to Borzage... Wonderful discussion to read David and Schreck, thanks!

My set is still waiting to dispatch, so I will come back with my raves in the new year. But Schreck, I would not worry about the mini-doco on the River from Filmmuseum.

I love the way you describe Borzage's "goodness", David. This is the emotion -- the weltanschauung -- that I felt running through all of the films you introduced me to last year, and that completely took my breath away. It is so hard to put into words, but there is in Borzage's films this deep, gentleness, this generosity toward his characters, almost like a father's or mother's "love" for his children.

I was viewing the Milestone-released documentary on Mary Pickford the other day, and it features a clip from one of her final films (Secrets), which she produced herself, and which she had started with Marshall Neilan, then shut down, and then taken up again with Borzage as the director. There is a brief excerpt from the film that depicts Mary and her family in a small pioneer shed under siege by a posse of hudlums, or some such, and the scene showed how Mary finds that her baby has died during the gunfire. The way that this moment is played is of course of great credit to Pickford as an actress, but it also carries that same familiar "goodness" that I believe David talks about above. In a more perfect world, perhaps Pickford and Borzage would have teamed up in the late forties, and helped her relaunch her career (as she never managed), and sustained Borzage's streak of greatness.

In closing, a simple and heartfelt thanks, David, for introducing me to Borzage. Certainly one of the handful of most important film discoveries for me in this decade. And, yes, Warner Brothers could certainly get busy with a "Ford at Fox" style box of films by Borzage. They do not lack worthy material, that is for sure. Meanwhile, I continue to try and track down the remainder of Borzage's unreleased films. Hopefully, I should be able to add Til the End of Time and No Greater Glory to the shelf soon through backwater channels.

Happy new year!

(Oh, and to those who cannot decide about this set. Buy it. Buy it as an investment. Make sure you see a few of the films -- in which case you will likely not part with it. Then, if you have to, sell it at twice the purchase price in a year. Recession or not).

EDIT: Schreck, where can I find Janet's email address. I would like to send her the suggested letter of thanks.

[GringoTex]

If you take a look at the usually appalling Will Rogers in They Had to See Paris you see Borzo barely keeping any control over Roger's shambolic, inept performance (the film is a dog) yet Ford fleshes out something like Doctor Bull enough to give Rogers the bones around which he can wrap a performance.

I've only seen Will Rogers in the three Ford films and was shocked at how good he was in them. But I can imagine how bad he could be.

[HerrSchreck]

Yes-- Judge Priest & Steamboat Round The Bend too. I'm not quite as big a fan of the Ford Rogers vehicles as, say, Gringo, but these films have an awful lot to commend them-- there's also no question that Ford came to these projects much better predisposed to appreciate the value and essence of Rogers, and had within his DNA the sensibilities and nostalgias to build the neccessary americana around him, so that a film like Steamboat comes in as a near-masterpiece. Just as Ford gets in over his head when trying to Be Murnau & make his own Sunrise or Last Laugh with a beaker of syrupy drek like Four Sons (I know some have time for this film but for me, I just start getting very restless, very fast... it took me four false starts before I could get all the way thru this howler; I much prefer Hangman's House), so Borzage was probably not in his element with less personally affecting elements like Big Picture Americana, a Rogers vehicle, etc. I think it'll be an interesting thing to see-- so They Had To See Paris is up next.

I'm curious to know what people thought of Liliom, which I never knew even existed, let alone saw. It apparently was so difficult to see previously that it made Lang's subsequent French version (itself considered very difficult to see before the Kino disc and the German Carousel set) seem, by comparison, downright easy-to-see.

What I find most pleasing about the Borzage silents (particularly v the later Ford silents, specifically Four Sons & Hangman's House) as presented here is that they (many of them anyhoo) are presented with the original vintage Movietone music-effects tracks in tact... whereas there were rights-issues with the Fords, apparently, and new scores had to be created. (Did you guys notice the recording dates for the films that did have their own new scores composed for them-- mid-to-late August of 2008, just a couple months before ship-out to stores!).

Watching Street Angel yesterday morning in crisp HD telecine (I always had a vhs of a very rare SUNY tv channel broadcast of the restored movietone version of the film from the mid-90's) was an outrageously beautiful experience. As much I adored Lucky Star (and my GOD what a stellar fucking print of that film, from the Netherlands... thank god for these guys who seem to be pitching lost films back at the US at an enchanting rate... Wicked Darling, Beyond The Rocks, Lucky Star, etc) I think I'll have to stick with my sense that Street Angel is the total peak for Borzage in the 1920's silents. All the Borzagean sensibilities are in place, yet carefully and delicately-- and quite movingly-- restrained at times, escaping the dart usually hurled by nincompoops that the man is sappy & sentimental. Visually Borzage flirts with a new kind of abstraction not really on display in any other of his works, and I delight in the fact that this film was the peak of his 1920's success at the box office (especially vs Bill Fox's disappointment viz Sunrise). The use of the extended take in the opening 15 minutes of the film, picking out individuals, staying with them for a few... following them to the next person of interest, lingering... until we get to Gaynor. It's all very moving and seamlessly executed. Charles Farrell here gives one of his better performances, and thankfully is shorn of all the foundation makeup that usually cakes his face along with dark lipstick (even in those films shot on panchromatic, i e not requiring the greasepaint), and Gaynor's beauty is just luminous, is utterly authentic, I practically fall in love with her each time I watch this film and see her smiling through tears with such restrained delicacy. As far as "smiling through a frown" or "Living over tears" goes, really, only Setsuko Hara comes to mind to match the beauty of Gaynor's performance in this film. So mature, beautifully tender, affecting-- it's Borzage in his most Michaelangelo of moments... perhaps it's the Italian sensibility in the film, as well as the painterly subtsance of the text itself perhaps-- all this drew out of Borzage & Palmer a sublimely inspired new art that was so huge, new, and mysterious, it seemed to be a giant entity all it's own-- I mean the formal style of Street Angel-- something that jumped out fully formed. Despite being tinged with the work that was being being done in France & Germany at the time, the achievement of Street Angel is so huge and formidable I don't think there was anywhere to "go" after it, at least as far as "further development" goes. One sees him in Lucky Star & River returning to the visual sensibility of 7th Heaven... fluid, visually very beautiful and expressive, but not anywhere near quite as godlike as the monster strokes of awe-inspiring perfection that rendered Street Angel. I'd emphasize again that all of these films are achingly beautiful and among the finest silents ever made-- all of them-- but Street Angel for me is the pinnacle. Endless carnations to Ernest Palmer's workaholism at this time... once Sunrise was finished, and Rosher and the great Struss went their way, this man did full duty (and developed atomic ulcer problems for it) on the next two Murnau films plus those of Borzage. The man was unquestionably a visual craftsman of the highest order, at least when motivated to the heavens by these two master filmmakers. His solutions, as described by himself and others, for Murnau in 4 Devils make the brain reel and the mouth water-- and the head spin with the imagining. His lighting for Murnau in City Girl is quite moving at times, very limpid and delicate... other times (particularly the night scenes) bold and near-experimental... and of course the tracking shots, especially the now able-to-be-fully-appreciated in all it's glory sled-driven tracking shot of Lem and Kate as they run and kiss and run and stumble joyfully under the sun thru the wheatfield. Two living breathing entities full of growth and life, pulsing with the essence of, the stuff of (rubs thumb and forefinger together), life itself (this idea, the nuturing and nourishing of humans, the primary, elemental nature of bread, of grain's earthiness, etc... this was all very important to Murnau, who originally wanted to shoot this in 70mm, with exceedingly complex extended montage elements devoted to the planting & harvesting of wheat and the making of bread for the table-- montage elements only lightly touched on in what comes down to us now in the version we have).

But here you have the man driving himself nuts in response to-- and being driven nuts thru the perfectionism of-- Murnau... then turning around and putting another hat on and working with Borzage on the best of his silents excepting Lucky Star (which is nontheless a visually remarkable film.. just beautiful-- that's one of the earlier mentions btw of Chester Lyons who along w Toland lensed the sublime Mad Love by Freund... don't let me get started on that film). Looking at the man's resume this period of the later half of the 20's is the obvious aesthetic high point of the man's life and career, as there is little preceding this run (Chaney's Miracle Man sticks out) or following it that comes anywhere near close to it.

Ah, this box.. A mindfuck it is indeed. I love it so much I think I'm going to go out on a date with it tomorrow. Not goingta take it out to see a movie though.

[Knappen]

Die Finanzen des Großherzogs as shown on Arte as Muet du mois last week.

[der_Artur]

Die Finanzen des Großherzogs as shown on Arte as Muet du mois last week.

Damn, I have to keep up better with what arte is showing. What about an "Upcoming Movies on arte" thread .

[Knappen]

Not a bad idea.

This particular film is coming out on DVD in march anyway.