Unauthorized Releases & Bootlegs

[SalParadise]

I live in China and I was surprised to see today copies of recently released Blu-ray titles at my local 'dvd (discount) store'.

You sure these were actual BDs? The pirates around here have begun selling DVD-9s in Blu-ray (and even HD DVD!) packaging.

Yes, they have been doing that here. But these were being sold in proper cases and when I spoke to the shop owner (who I trust) he said they were the real thing. One way is to simply check, but I don't think he would lie and sell them to me only for me to prove: "Hey, they work on regular DVD player! So they can't be real"

[Hopscotch]

Does anybody here have a copy of Bob Dylan's 1978 film Renaldo & Clara? I've been wanting to see this desperately, and it seems bootlegs are the only way to go. I've seen some pricey ones around, but I'd much rather...you know... send somebody a dvd and have them just burn it for me or something. I know it's on youtube, but I'm looking to see the whole thing, uncut, on my T.V. Many thanks to anyone who responds.

[Cold Bishop]

'Tis what the internets are for (and I'm not talking about Youtube). I found a three part mpeg within seconds of reading your post. Making a dvd of it shouldn't be too hard if you have a burner.

[impossiblefunky]

A good year of rare releases means a bad year for bootleggers apparently.

RevengeIsMyDestiny.com (Shocking Videos) closed down and now superhappyfun.com is closing too (Aug 31 per the website). I also heard a rumor that pimpadelicwonderland.com is no more (or soon will be).

Does this mean that grey markets are a thing of the past or that they'll be scattered to the four winds and have smaller niche markets of gore, horror, Asian titles?

[Lemmy Caution]

Otherwise, about a half-dozen Blue Ray titles began turning up in China a few weeks ago. The price, around $5 per, is quite expensive by Chinese pirated Dvd standards, but is sure to come down as they proliferate.

Is there supposed to be some sort of anti-pirating technology on BR's?

But do we have to suppose that all DVDs published in China or with Chinese subtitles are bootlegs? Isn't there one single Chinese publisher selling legitimate DVDs in China, that one could then also find on sale to Western customers by Chinese e-merchants?

I know nothing about that particular title, but let's say Studio X (in the West) sells the publishing rights for China to Y Corporation; the difference in income being what it is, one may well suppose that Y Corporation will sell the DVDs in continental China for far less than Western prices (let us not forget that the actual cost of physically making a DVD is around 10 cents, so there is still room for profit by selling for less than our usual $20) ; and may we not further suppose that some clever Chinese internauts get hold of a bunch of DVDs at internal Chinese price (say $5?) and sell them with a profit at $10?

Though it is obvious that many Chinese copies are bootlegs, it does not prove tha they all are. Admittedly making a line of conduct for oneself based on that is a difficult task, other than "I will not buy one Chinese DVD because so many are bootlegs" or "from now on I will buy all my DVDs in China because they are so mich cheaper". But wouldn't it for instance be feasible to obtain catalogues of "legal" Chinese publishers and see what's in them and at what cost? Or to ask a couple of major Western distributors who they sell their rights to for China, and where one may enquire about it (though they will certainly be reluctant, knowing that it would definitely allow anyone to buy DVDs "made in China" at 1/4 the price and with a clear conscience)?

I've lived in China since the advent of Dvd's. Almost all of the dvd's produced and/or sold in China are indeed bootlegs. Many are high quality bootlegs, where the artwork on the cover and disc are very well done. More recent films tend to have worse quality and poor English on the covers (and Chinglish subs or perhaps subs from the wrong film).

I'm pretty sure that I've read that over 95% of the dvd's sold in China are pirated. The only sources for legitimate Dvd's are the gov't bookstores and a few cultural outlets (like the store in the Shanghai Grand Theater). Even in such stores they mostly sell dubious Bo Ying releases primarily of old films supposedly with lapsed copyrights. Bo Ying is shady, and crappy enough to routinely end a film before the credits begin to roll.

Due to the thriving pirate market, even the legit releases in China are sold for $5 or less per disc. So your idea of making a profit on legit releases is very difficult pricewise, and limited to gov't distributors.

Western studios do not normally enter the Chinese market because there is little money to be made and the pirated Dvd's control the market. One or two labels have tried to sell legit Dvd's in China for under $3. Don't think that's been too successful, as that's usually double the pirate rate. Not sure whether such efforts/experiments are still ongoing.

In short, you have to make an effort to find and buy legit Dvd's in China, and they are priced at 2x or 3x the pirate price.

With cheap broadband easily available in China (US $15 - $20 per month), most young Chinese I know consider even pirated Dvd's too expensive, and have switched over to downloading films.

[carax09]

With cheap broadband easily available in China (US $15 - $20 per month), most young Chinese I know consider even pirated Dvd's too expensive, and have switched over to downloading films.

I caught part of a program on NPR that was discussing this very phenomenon. Do you think the loss of these potential consumers will cause the bootleg shops to be forced out of business? Perhaps this situation is forcing the shop owners to switch to blu to stay viable...

[myrnaloyisdope]

Anyone know where I could find a copy of Mark Donskoi's "My Apprenticeship"?. I don't really want to spend a 50-100 dollars for the VHS tape.

[wpqx]

I rented it from Facets and the quality was fairly poor (as most twenty year old VHS tapes will be), if you can find somewhere to rent it (Facets does online rentals if that's an option) you can always make your own copy, it certainly isn't encrypted.

[myrnaloyisdope]

Cool, I just joined and found a couple other films I was looking for.

Thanks.

Edit: Just received an email that Facets doesn't send rentals to Canada.

So the question is still does anyone know where I can find an inexpensive copy of Donskoi's My Apprenticeship??

[wpqx]

That's a tough break I used to live four blocks from Facets which needless to say was beneficial

[feihong]

Has anybody on the thread had any luck finding an English-subtitled version of Out 1 or Out 1:Spectre?

[Cold Bishop]

None exist... I'm surprised no one has attempted to translate the Italian subs, although. I've considered trying to slog through the incomprehensible French-Italian episodes myself, and use my minor understanding of french and italian to do it, but I don't have that sort of commitment.

KG, Cinema-Obscura, and Co. should band together and really attempt an open-source sub project, but alas.

[myrnaloyisdope]

Has anybody on the thread had any luck finding an English-subtitled version of Out 1 or Out 1:Spectre?

I know of someone who has a copy of Out 1:Spectre, apparently it is very poor quality, but it is subbed. PM for details.

[The Fanciful Norwegian]

None exist... I'm surprised no one has attempted to translate the Italian subs, although.

Some people at a certain file-sharing site are trying to whip up some subs using a previously-published English translation, but they were having a hard time syncing it to the Italian subs (and the translation they're working with leaves out too much), so they seem to have hit a brick wall.

[Cold Bishop]

I know of someone who has a copy of Out 1:Spectre, apparently it is very poor quality, but it is subbed. PM for details.

Inter-est-ing. I was unaware of Spectre bootlegs, period, let alone subbed. Do you know what sort of source it looks it came from? (and do pm me if it isn't info they want out)

Some people at a certain file-sharing site are trying to whip up some subs using a previously-published English translation, but they were having a hard time syncing it to the Italian subs (and the translation they're working with leaves out too much), so they seem to have hit a brick wall.

Are they using .srt? If so, and if there not dead set on keeping it within only their file-sharing site, I'd recommend setting up an AtWiki open-source page per each episode and copying-and-pasting the information they have. I can't say I could help right off hand, but certainly it would leave it open to me, and if they passed the info around, any other interested party to help in creating and editing the subs. I'm sure there's a lot of people who would love to see subs, and some of them certainly must know enough italian and french to complete it.

[wpqx]

When I saw Out 1 there was someone who was doing subtitles live while following a script, it was strange and worked like a slide show posted over the film. Same happened when I saw some rare Czech films at Facets a year or two back.

[quequetz]

Anyone know where I could find a copy of Mark Donskoi's "My Apprenticeship"?. I don't really want to spend a 50-100 dollars for the VHS tape.

Try here, but, most likely without English subtitles.

[Antoine Doinel]

When I saw Out 1 there was someone who was doing subtitles live while following a script, it was strange and worked like a slide show posted over the film. Same happened when I saw some rare Czech films at Facets a year or two back.

Yeah, I saw some Nikkatsu films this summer where they did the same thing.

[Perkins Cobb]

Despite my skepticism, a spot-check shows that the SuperHappyFun titles I'd considered buying have, as promised, turned up on NotAvailableonDVD.com's less-than-bare-bones website. And with a price reduction, too.

[jsteffe]

Anyone know where I could find a copy of Mark Donskoi's "My Apprenticeship"?. I don't really want to spend a 50-100 dollars for the VHS tape.

I assume you're referring to the VHS from the New York Film Annex? The quality leaves something to be desired, but it's watchable, and it's the only subtitled option that I'm aware of. Other than that, I'd also recommend the Ruscico DVD, which is apparently unsubtitled. They have a pretty good track record working with Gorky Studio, which is what Soyuzdetfilm morphed into.

BTW: Ruscico's DVD of Mark Donskoi's "Sel'skaia uchitel'nitsa" ("The Village Schoolteacher") looks really nice, and it's subtitled to boot. If you're into Soviet cinema, that's a must-have.

[Stefan Andersson]

Facets used to sell a VHS of Ophuls´ BARTERED BRIDE. Connoisseur Video (US) had Ophuls´ MAYERLING/SARAJEVO on VHS. Comments?

[wpqx]

I saw the Mayerling VHS and the quality was watchable but certainly not up to the home vision transfers.

[jmcbride]

Identifying Bootlegs

I have a brother who does not have internet access and he has asked for me to find him some help.

He needs to get in touch with someone who can help him identify bootleg copies and what to look for to ensure he does not get scammed.

He is a huge oldies movie buff and has purchased some movies and has discovered he has been scammed in the past. If there is anyone in this forum area who can help I would appreciate any and all help. If he can call you or contact you in any means or you can direct me to a website that gives hints and things to look for that would be great.

I look forward to any and all help!

Thanks!

[thirtyframesasecond]

Mods, please move this if it's in the incorrect forum.

Does anyone use torrents etc to download out of print/impossible to obtain films? How do you find it works? There's a series of films I'm interested in seeing, impossible to get hold of because they've never been released and so on and feel this might be the only means of being able to see these films. Of course I know about the copyright violations related to this but I suppose the other side of the argument is that if the film's been buried with no prospect of commercial release then who's been harmed?

[foliagecop]

I downloaded Menilmontant through a torrent site last year (following Herr Schrek's glowing recommendation) because I was a) intrigued, and b) too poor to fork out for the Avant-Garde box set it was part of. I was so glad I did, it's a tremendous piece of cinema.

So, yeah, there are obvious benefits to doing this, especially if the film in question - unlike Menilmontant - isn't readily available. The copyright issue - well, people have their own opinions on that, and you could bat it back and forth for millenia and still get nowhere. Personally speaking, I'm in favour of it. I've seen films by filmmakers I probably wouldn't have taken a chance on, and now they're on my 'to buy' list.

Blind-downloading. It's the future.