Doubt (John Patrick Shanley, 2008)

[Belmondo]

Saw this several days ago and it continues to resonate - I greatly enjoyed watching it up on the big screen, and at no point did I feel I was watching a filmed play.
Now, after several days, it is Hoffman's performance that I continue to think about. As I watched the movie, I was intrigued by such things as how the age and unattractiveness of Streeps' hands added to her character in a way only she could do. Now I keep thinking about how Hoffman reacted to an accusation that could come out of the blue for almost every man. For me, it certainly worked as drama, and Hoffman shows us everything on the screen and more as we think about it.

[moviscop]

Hoffman, Streep, and Adams were all amazing. All of the different themes this film presents makes it such a joy to watch and encourages outside discussion.

[LQ]

I'll invite a guessing game: who thinks he "did it"? I saw it again recently and my companion this time was dogmatically convinced of Hoffman's innocence. Of course, the beauty of the film is

Spoiler

that one really doesn't know for sure either way

Its fun to speculate, though.

[domino harvey]

Spoiler

Of course he didn't do it. That's what I meant by how it's not subtle. The film isn't about his innocence or guilt, it's a case study in the old vs. the new. Even if Hoffman is guilty, it doesn't matter, because the manner in which he is prosecuted is so vindictive and unappealing that it doesn't matter whether he did it or not. Characters within the film may have their doubts, but the film itself believes he didn't do it. The film has a lot of interesting observations to make, but very few of them revolve around a guessing game of his guilt.

[Haggai]

Interesting question, LQ. My take on it is along these lines:

Spoiler

Father Flynn was probably guilty of something that could be seen as inappropriately close contact with one or more of the boys, though perhaps not yet to the level of seriousness that Sister Aloysius was assuming. The fact that he seems to have believed her lie about her having contacted a nun at his previous school indicates that he has a reason not to call her bluff at that point. But the evidence against him is too vague to trump his ability to call in his connections to get an even more prestigious post. He might not have done anything really wrong yet, but he may have gone too far in the wrong direction.

[LQ]

I liked what you said, domino. Compelling and well put. I don't know if I agree that

Spoiler

the film believes he's [completely] innocent

but you've given me something interesting to think about. I will say though, I applaud Sister A's campaign. She may not have had the most virtuous motives, and yes..she was a vituperative old crone..but at least she didn't look the other way like so many others when given possible evidence of wrongdoing. She would've strung up her own mother, but at least no children were going to get molested on her watch.

Haggai, we're on the same wavelength. I know its not the most profound question, but hey..it was the first thing out of my mouth. "So...'thinkhedidit??"

[Fiery Angel]

Shanley and the off-Broadway cast talk with Charlie Rose.

(looks like audio and video are not in sync)....

[kaujot]

I liked what you said, domino. Compelling and well put. I don't know if I agree that

Spoiler

the film believes he's [completely] innocent

but you've given me something interesting to think about. I will say though, I applaud Sister A's campaign. She may not have had the most virtuous motives, and yes..she was a vituperative old crone..but at least she didn't look the other way like so many others when given possible evidence of wrongdoing. She would've strung up her own mother, but at least no children were going to get molested on her watch.

Haggai, we're on the same wavelength. I know its not the most profound question, but hey..it was the first thing out of my mouth. "So...'thinkhedidit??"

I completely, uhm, un-applaud her her campaign. Like it or not, it does matter how you go about something, especially with so little actual evidence of wrongdoing.

[Grand Illusion]

My initial thought was that he

Spoiler

did do it.

Traditional tragic structure works such that the protagonist will achieve their goal or fulfill the prophecy (Oedipus, Macbeth, Maximus from Gladiator, Batman from the Dark Knight, etc.). Then, after achieving the goal or fulfilling the prophecy, there is always something bigger and worse that comes as a result. So for Macbeth, he becomes king, but then becomes guilt-ridden and deposed as the new king. For Batman, he destroys the bad guys, but becomes vilified by all of Gotham and has to go into hiding.

In this case, I believe Sister Aloysius achieves her goal of expelling a child-molesting priest, but in the process, Father Flynn actually gets a promotion and will continue his reforms on the church. The greater damage being done is not that Sister Aloysius has doubts about his guilt. The greater tragedy (for her) is that this has instilled irrevocable doubt in her faith, exemplified when she hides the cross away when confessing her doubt to Sister James.

As for actual evidence within the story that he did it, I would have to review the film, but my initial thought was that he was guilty.

[Haggai]

GI,

I think some of the evidence in the film points in multiple directions, or at least allows for multiple interpretations. That's true in the play as well, but the film adds a few more things. In the play, the only information we have is what the four main characters say, since no other characters ever appear on-stage.

In the movie, one new thing is the scene where Flynn comforts Donald after some of the other kids knock a bunch of things out of Donald's hands. Sister James sees their embrace, which increases her suspicion, but the film shows us more information: the little magnet "dancer" that Flynn gave to Donald as a gift has just been shattered, which indicates a more innocent reason for why Flynn would comfort him in that situation. In the play, this scene isn't depicted, since Donald doesn't even appear as a character; all we know about him is what the other characters are saying.

[domino harvey]

at any rate, amy adams was hot at the golden globes - surely someone else had that experience.

Yes, I also had the experience of Amy Adams being hot at the Golden Globes

[Haggai]

thinking at that point the best the movie could do would be to turn sister aloysius into a hank quinlan character who'd be right but spend the end credits face-down, shot by maybe samuel l. jackson (he wouldn't have been the only past or future supporting acting nominee not to have cropped up yet - mind drifting)

Maybe there could be a nun-sploitation rewrite to have Amy Adams' character be the one who pulls the trigger. She's definitely hotter than Samuel L. Jackson (not to mention Joseph Calleia).

[Grand Illusion]

I think some of the evidence in the film points in multiple directions, or at least allows for multiple interpretations. That's true in the play as well, but the film adds a few more things. In the play, the only information we have is what the four main characters say, since no other characters ever appear on-stage.

In the movie, one new thing is the scene where Flynn comforts Donald after some of the other kids knock a bunch of things out of Donald's hands. Sister James sees their embrace, which increases her suspicion, but the film shows us more information: the little magnet "dancer" that Flynn gave to Donald as a gift has just been shattered, which indicates a more innocent reason for why Flynn would comfort him in that situation. In the play, this scene isn't depicted, since Donald doesn't even appear as a character; all we know about him is what the other characters are saying.

Very interesting. But even with this, I'm unsure that we get any further towards either an affirmative or negative on his guilt. Then again, that's the point, I guess. Quite an enjoyable exercise Shanley has written.

[Antoine Doinel]

Saw the film this afternoon and thought it was quite good, though I haven't quite digested it all yet. The performances across the board are brilliant and while I can't stand one performance out in front of another, I will say that I think Streep is really taken for granted in this picture. I've read some negative reviews that said her character was a little extreme in the one note she plays, but I can't think of any actress who could pull off what she does in the final seconds of the film as convincingly or powerfully. But I do agree with DH that Amy Adams is the most fluid character (and also the most Classic Hollywood actress we have; the overlooked Miss Pettigrew Lives For A Day is more than enough proof of that). While I'm still going over what my verdict of Flynn is, my gut reaction is pretty much on point with what Haggai had to say.

From an aesthetic standpoint, I think Shanley had some issues in moving the film from the stage to film. The use of a tilted camera for certain scenes seemed more haphazard than for any real choice, and the soundtrack, particularly at the beginning had far too much presence in a film that really relies on its austerity for its power. He also threw in a couple of "symbolism" eye rollers, most irritatingly being the lady who brought in the cat to find the mouse. Do you get it? He also seemed to have trouble deciding where to place the camera in the initial meeting of the sisters and Flynn leading to a couple really odd edits/cuts. But these are minor distractions that didn't affect the overall mood of the film.

[tavernier]

I can't think of any actress who could pull off what she does in the final seconds of the film as convincingly or powerfully.

Cherry Jones did it far better when the play had its world premiere off-Broadway. I can still hear her saying those final lines four years later.

[Haggai]

I don't know about far better; Streep is awfully good. I saw Jones with the touring production in DC. The tangible strength of a live performance is tough to match on film, particularly with an actress as great as Jones, so I would agree that the impact of seeing her do it live was stronger than seeing it in a cinema. But just for the particular medium of film, I think Streep did about as well as possible.

[tavernier]

Streep is far too hammy in the movie; and, for an actress whose bread and butter is her ability with accents, her Bronxese comes and goes too often.

[Antoine Doinel]

The only reason Streep is "hammy" (and I disagree with that description for her performance) is that her character, more than the others, is entirely one dimensional to begin with. Doubt only works because its sum is much greater than its parts, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it doesn't give actors much to work with as, given it's quasi-mystery setup, the actors spend most of their time in their roles moving the narrative forward rather than establishing/growing character.

[Svevan]

Un-discussed here was the odd relationship between Fr. Flynn and William London; Sister Aloysius mentions the moment early in the film where Flynn tries to take London's hand and he pulls away. Consider too

Spoiler

the scene at the end where Flynn is saying goodbye to his parish, and we see Donald Miller crying, and William London smiling (ever-so-faintly).

A red herring?

To me, the layer of ambiguity is important to the film. I agree with the earlier poster who said that it is perhaps true that Flynn's relationship with Miller was "inappropriate" but not necessarily sexual or abusive. Consider the way the film ramps up the "truth" of the situation in the rectory between Flynn and Miller.

Spoiler

First Flynn claims that he was protecting the boy from punishment for drinking altar wine; then we learn that Miller is gay, and it is more likely that Flynn and Miller were discussing this than altar wine in the rectory; compound this with the line from Flynn when he responds to a boy asking him what to do if no girl wants to dance with him: "Become a priest." I get the feeling that Flynn and Miller shared something, not sexual, but too private to admit to someone like Sister Aloysius for fear of retribution from her or the church. The fact that Flynn encourages Miller to become a priest indicates, to me, that they shared the same burden and desire to become abstinent so as not to offend God.

But this deals too much with plot details and not enough with the importance of the details: Flynn's doubts about his faith are entirely personal, and he wants to give his parish the freedom to doubt in the same way. As Tennyson said, "There lives more faith in honest doubt/Believe me, than in half the creeds." Aloysius' faith is placed not in something comforting or supernatural but in Flynn's guilt; her lack of doubt is mirrored with Flynn's abundance.

Aside from some banal choices (like the slow-moving detail-heavy opening) I loved the film, especially its major set-piece scenes. I'm of the school that "opening-up" a play is a bad idea, mostly, so almost all of the extra stuff in the movie was superfluous to me. At least the major conversations are relatively intact and stay bound to one location, maintaining some geographical power.

[AWA]

Saw this tonight and thought that it was overall decent to good, but lost a lot of points with me at the ending, both in terms of my own critical film related reactions and ethical ones as well.

Spoiler

I agree that Father Flynn is undoubtably innocent, but he is "guilty" of being homosexual and for assisting the Miller boy with his own developing homosexuality through private assistance and consultation... the Church / Sister Aloysius obviously believe that Father Flynn is a bad person for being homosexual and that just by giving Miller the impression it's ok to be that way by giving him some shelter and support for it he is guilty of an "inappropriate relationship" with the boy, as that's just as bad in their eyes. The Church, however, is evolving and privately supporting homosexuals by acknowledging him as an effective minister by giving him a promotion but keeping his homosexuality quiet by moving him along to different locations once old-school conservative nuns find out his secret... which, in their eyes, homosexuality sympathy is just as bad as actually having sexual relations.

Unfortunately, Hoffman seemed to be the only one to add anything that wasn't written on the stage script, which unfortunately did not receive much of a re-write when made into a screenplay. Nice to be faithful to the play and all, but some of the dialogue just screamed stage and it didn't need to.

The Dutch camera angles too were completely useless and did absolutely nothing to add to the film in anyway shape or form. Really bad idea.

Also further proof that all that is required of an acting Oscar nomination these days is to scream your brains out on camera. See every other nom, as per the norm, for other examples.

[domino harvey]

Walt Disney Studios Home Entertainment have announced the US DVD and Blu-ray Disc release of Doubt on 7th April 2009.

Priced at $29.99 SRP on DVD and $34.99 SRP on Blu-ray Disc, extras on both include:

From Stage to Screen—An intimate discussion with playwright, screenwriter and director John Patrick Shanley about the history of Doubt, including his inspirations for the story, the acclaim the play’s Broadway run received, the Pulitzer Prize and the process of adapting it for the screen. Joining the conversation are Meryl Streep and Sister Margaret McEntee (a consultant on the film and Shanley’s former teacher).

Scoring Doubt—Renowned composer Howard Shore discusses his inspiration for the music in the film and his collaboration with both John Patrick Shanley and producer Scott Rudin.

The Sisters of Charity—In an insightful and lively dialogue, Meryl Streep and John Patrick Shanley discuss the interviews that Shanley did before shooting with real nuns to discuss their lives and make sure they would be accurately portrayed in the film.

Feature Commentary with John Patrick Shanley

The Cast of Doubt—A conversation with actors Meryl Streep, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Amy Adams and Viola Davis.

The DVD is presented in 2.35:1 Anamorphic Widescreen with English DD5.1 Surround, French audio and Spanish subtitles. Blu-ray AV specs and region coding are TBC.

Reminds me of the good old days of DVDs, when every release was this loaded