Charlie Chaplin and Criterion

[HerrSchreck]

I sort of wish it wasn't. Another load of films which have been generally well-represented on home vid for a very long time, and they paid a pretty penny for these rights I'm sure which means this is going to put things we really need-- M. Lange, Gremillon, Duvivier, Sternberg-- even further back on back burner in this cruddo economy while they put together a whopping release package.

[Tribe]

I sort of wish it wasn't. Another load of films which have been generally well-represented on home vid for a very long time, and they paid a pretty penny for these rights I'm sure which means this is going to put things we really need-- M. Lange, Gremillon, Duvivier, Sternberg-- even further back on back burner in this cruddo economy while they put together a whopping release package.

I think it's gonna be at least two years before we see any of these hit the market...assuming they are gonna be looking for supplements and doing some work on the transfers.

[Napier]

I own the MK2 versions of most of these Chaplin films, and really don't see how they can be improved upon. The transfers are great.

[Gregory]

I've accepted that, at least in my opinion, most of Criterion's releases are best for two main categories of people: those relatively new to "art cinema," and those whose overwhelming desire is better releases of things already available. I just wish the United States had labels more like the BFI and Second Run.

[ianungstad]

I sort of wish it wasn't. Another load of films which have been generally well-represented on home vid for a very long time, and they paid a pretty penny for these rights I'm sure which means this is going to put things we really need-- M. Lange, Gremillon, Duvivier, Sternberg-- even further back on back burner in this cruddo economy while they put together a whopping release package.

I think it's gonna be at least two years before we see any of these hit the market...assuming they are gonna be looking for supplements and doing some work on the transfers.

If they close the deal in the next few weeks, I think they'll be bumped to the top of the que and we'll see releases by next summer. Just my opinion. I really don't see these being 2 years away. The films are already restored and supplements will be easy to track down. The issue with the Warner was the PAL speedup, NTSC transfers are all that's really required.

[perkizitore]

I've accepted that, at least in my opinion, most of Criterion's releases are best for two main categories of people: those relatively new to "art cinema," and those whose overwhelming desire is better releases of things already available. I just wish the United States had labels more like the BFI and Second Run.

They have (Facets,Kino etc.) but they do technically crap releases. Not only that, but Criterion is much more expensive than MoC.

[oldsheperd]

I think Criterions are best for films snobs just because I'm better than everyone.

[movielocke]

Chaplin Blurays would be excellent and reason enough for them to take over these films, otherwise, why bother, my Image discs are fine (other than Gold Rush which is the rerelease rather than the superior silent version). I won't be buying if these are only released to DVD.

[Tommaso]

I sort of wish it wasn't. Another load of films which have been generally well-represented on home vid for a very long time, and they paid a pretty penny for these rights I'm sure which means this is going to put things we really need-- M. Lange, Gremillon, Duvivier, Sternberg-- even further back on back burner in this cruddo economy while they put together a whopping release package.

Schreck, normally I would agree with everything you say (and I don't need to add that I also want Gremillon, Duvivier etc. first), but in the case of Chaplin I can for the first and probably last time understand why CC would jump for films this well represented on disc already; I'm not even a big Chaplin fan, but the man's works' importance, influence and longevity, not to mention his quasi-mythical status simply cannot be ignored by a company with a mission statement like CC's. If someone has never seen a silent, nor has heard the names of Murnau or Lang, he or she will surely know who Chaplin was. To have Chaplin in the CC amounts more or less to a 'style thing', but here I think it's worth it. Quite apart from the money they'll make and which will hopefully flow into those releases we all want to see. And unlike "Button", "Monsoon" or "Howards End", Chaplin will surely not damage their reputation among the more hardcore art film fans.

[HerrSchreck]

Schreck, normally I would agree with everything you say (and I don't need to add that I also want Gremillon, Duvivier etc. first), but in the case of Chaplin I can for the first and probably last time understand why CC would jump for films this well represented on disc already; I'm not even a big Chaplin fan, but the man's works' importance, influence and longevity, not to mention his quasi-mythical status simply cannot be ignored by a company with a mission statement like CC's. If someone has never seen a silent, nor has heard the names of Murnau or Lang, he or she will surely know who Chaplin was. To have Chaplin in the CC amounts more or less to a 'style thing', but here I think it's worth it. Quite apart from the money they'll make and which will hopefully flow into those releases we all want to see. And unlike "Button", "Monsoon" or "Howards End", Chaplin will surely not damage their reputation among the more hardcore art film fans.

None of that's really all that hard to figure out.

And I agree with Ian-- I seriously doubt the releases would be two years down the road. They could whap these things together in a very short time, really.

I miss those days when beyond dream-come-true global home video premieres of brain bending classics from France, Russia, UK, Japan, etc, appeared practically every month thru this line.

What will be funny is when people hold the Chaplins up as evidence that CC is not afraid of releasing silents... {|=

[Cinephrenic]

They not afraid, they just take too damn looooonnnnnnngggggggg.

Where is Eisensteins, Sjostroms, von Sternbergs, von Stroheims??? I wouldn't hold my breath on Chaplin coming anytime soon. Preferably, I hope they release all these guys before any Chaplin. We at least have his works on DVD for the meantime.

[zedz]

Of course a few of these films have alternate versions, usually shorter with a new score, reissued by by Chaplin later in life. I assume Criterion would include both cuts.

Timothy Brock has recently completed a reconstruction of the original score for The Gold Rush, so an authoritative edition of both versions would be a great way to kick off a Chaplin release schedule.

[aox]

I own the MK2 versions of most of these Chaplin films, and really don't see how they can be improved upon. The transfers are great.

Theoretically, Criterion could introduce Chaplin to Blu.

[HerrSchreck]

Meanwhile what happend to the Paramount silent Sternberg set thru Crit?

Not to mention the supposedly "confirmed for 2009" Shanghai Exp.? The R2 was a quite nice transfer to a point, but it is missing that bit of the monologue of the Major about the full reasons viz his "retirement". And of course the film screams-- as does all of the Sternberg Deit's which came barebones from fucking Uni-- for extras.

[denti alligator]

I own the MK2 versions of most of these Chaplin films, and really don't see how they can be improved upon. The transfers are great.

Theoretically, Criterion could introduce Chaplin to Blu.

For The Great Dictator and Modern Times, I expect they would.

Will the earlier silents present frame-rate problems?

[brendanjc]

I've seen the frame rate thing mentioned before - does anyone have a good explanation of why that's more of an issue with Blu-ray than DVD? I thought both formats could only encode films at 24 or 30 FPS (for NTSC countries) anyway?

[brendanjc]

not a good explanation but a quick one:

Silent frame rates vary from 16 to 24 fps depending on where and when, and hand plus mechanical cranking etc. 24fps which is 99.9999% of all film' frame rate is handled in NTSC with 3:2 pulldown (i.e. interpolating frames every so often to a logorithm) while PAL just speeds the fucking thing up 1 fps to 25. NTSC systems run on power at 60 hz whereas PAL countries have 50hz which is the basis for this precomputer frame rate video logic.

HD also uses the standard computer scanning of 60hz for all but most (not all) feature films or films shot on film are encoded for straight 24fps on HD/Blu. When it comes to variable rates like 20, 22 or 18 fps someobody - I think - needs to work out algorithms to seamlesssly sludge the frames into a 24 fps encode. If they do it with interpolation you end up with what used to be called in silent film reprinting jargon "Step framing" which looks jerky and horrible.


next..

Sure, that's about the same level of understanding that I had. I suppose what I don't understand is how a sub-24-FPS silent is encoded on DVD - are they all just sped up to 24 FPS? Or are they normally interpolated? It seems that however the problem was currently solved on DVD would continue to work for Blu-ray since you can encode Blu discs at 30 or 60 FPS as well as the 24 that's usually used, even though it isn't ideal.

[Oggilby]

It's possible to slow down the speed while keeping it progressive. Fox encoded The Lodger this way, which seems to have every third frame doubled. Looks great and no interlacing issues. It does not have the choppy look of The Chaplin Revue for slowed down footage.

So, it's possible, even if possibilities with 60i 1080i or 30fps 1080p may yield smoother motion.

[peerpee]

In the UK, these Chaplin films are with: http://www.parkcircus.com/news/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

--

if the Criterion rumours are true, it looks as if Criterion have a clear shot at this. Having just started issuing DVDs, Park Circus will probably be looking in the Yellow Pages for "DVD authoring", and I doubt they have any intention of issuing Blu-rays <----(he said bitterly)

[Finch]

City Lights in the correct aspect ratio plus Gold Rush with a reconstructed score would be reason enough for me to double dip and I'd prefer individual releases instead of a box set. Anyone else thinking it likely that they will spread them out over a few months, with, say, one or two classics and a set of the short films at a time? I wonder if the shorts will get a Painleve-style release or end up with Eclipse..

[Jeff]

I notice that Park Circus is saying that "newly restored versions for digital cinema" will be available. Any reason why they wouldn't be striking 35mm prints? I wonder if Janus will. Seeing a restored 35mm print of City Lights would be much more exciting to me than the impending DVD release. The Monsieur Verdoux print that toured a couple of years ago was a revelation.

[Oggilby]

I notice that Park Circus is saying that "newly restored versions for digital cinema" will be available. Any reason why they wouldn't be striking 35mm prints? I wonder if Janus will. Seeing a restored 35mm print of City Lights would be much more exciting to me than the impending DVD release. The Monsieur Verdoux print that toured a couple of years ago was a revelation.

Modern Times and The Great Dictator had 2K digital restorations back in 2002, so d-cinema releases would make sense - it's at least cheaper than 35mm prints and would be easier (obviously) to maintain.

City Lights in the correct aspect ratio plus Gold Rush with a reconstructed score would be reason enough for me to double dip and I'd prefer individual releases instead of a box set. Anyone else thinking it likely that they will spread them out over a few months, with, say, one or two classics and a set of the short films at a time? I wonder if the shorts will get a Painleve-style release or end up with Eclipse..

Adding to the Chaplin Revue and The Kid DVDs would make more sense since The Kid isn't a long movie (and as said before BOTH cuts would fit on a single disc). If they put out a set with only the shorts, that's the only place The Chaplin Revue would belong - then it would be a 3-disc set that ends up pricey while The Kid is 1-disc (and still $39.99 MSRP most likely). This way, there's two 2-disc sets with The Kid, the rest of the First National films, and The Chaplin Revue split across them.

I think every film at least needs a commentary (or two), not to mention extras being available. An Eclipse set for the First National films would cancel out the idea of presenting multiple cuts and extras, considering there were some on the Image and Warner/MK2 editions.

Although, I wonder who is going to distribute the new Keystone restorations from the BFI.

[peerpee]

THE KID, MODERN TIMES, THE CIRCUS, and THE GOLD RUSH have had HD restorations...

THE GREAT DICTATOR, CITY LIGHTS and LIMELIGHT will be finished by the end of the year. There was no mention of VERDOUX or anything else, but that was back in March.

[justeleblanc]

Veroux is owned by The Film Desk now, no?

[ianungstad]

The Film Desk has the current theatrical rights. One would assume that much like Kino, those rights will soon be expiring. The Chaplin Estate said that Kino's contract is up March 2010. The theatrical rights in the States seem to be spread out across a few companies.