495 The Golden Age of Television

Discuss releases by Criterion and the films on them. Threads may contain spoilers!
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htdm
Joined: Wed Nov 03, 2004 7:46 am

Re: 'Forthcoming' Lists Discussion and Random Speculation Vol.2

#26 Post by htdm »

Jeff wrote:I'm curious to see what, if anything, Criterion can do with a kinescope.
This is my thought as well. I've seen some great results with the VidFIRE process - I imagine Criterion will equal that.

Very pleasantly surprised by Criterion's decision - what a great release!
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Feego
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#27 Post by Feego »

manicsounds wrote:Where did this Frankenheimer commentary come from? Spliced interviews, or recorded years ago and put on a backburner?
According to a poster on the IMDb, all of these films and commentaries were previously released on laser disc. The only difference is that the laser disc also contained The Defender, with Steven McQueen, William Shatner, and Martin Balsam, but did not include A Wind from the South, which is on Criterion's set.
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Jean-Luc Garbo
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#28 Post by Jean-Luc Garbo »

Feego wrote:The only difference is that the laser disc also contained The Defender, with Steven McQueen, William Shatner, and Martin Balsam....
Blast! Still no Shatner in the Collection! :cry:
Perkins Cobb
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#29 Post by Perkins Cobb »

Probably because there's already a (PD?) DVD of "The Defender" out there.
OliverB
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#30 Post by OliverB »

PLEASE CRITERION, CONSIDER THE EXCELLENT, SUSPENSEFUL AND MOODY "END OF A GUN" (1957) WITH RICHARD CONTE FOR INCLUSION AS A FUTURE SELECTION!!!

Sam Peckinpah is credited as a writer on the teleplay and it REALLY deserves to be released in some form or another! I was hoping that FOX would see fit to include it as an extra in their long past due release of The Gunfighter last summer, but to no avail! I only wish that I had recorded the episode when FMC was still airing their 20th Century-Fox Hour/Hour of Stars series years back.

Please license this out for release in a second volume!!!
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Antares
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#31 Post by Antares »

Jeff wrote:I think that it is worth it for this version of Requiem for a Heavyweight alone. This is the release of the year for me.
Wow, I can't understand how I missed this announcement!

If Criterion can somehow make Kinescope look good, then this is the disc of the year.

I was in New York a while back and went to the The Museum of Television & Radio and watched a few of the titles mentioned. So much better than the film re-makes.
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whaleallright
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#32 Post by whaleallright »

Probably because there's already a (PD?) DVD of "The Defender" out there.
There are PD versions, whether on VHS or DVD or both, of all of these, as far as I know.
Last edited by whaleallright on Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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CSM126
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#33 Post by CSM126 »

jonah.77 wrote:
Most of them are of terrible quality, some shot directly off a TV monitor.
That's called Kinescope recording and it's how a lot of early TV was preserved. You'll also note that Criterion explicitly states that this set features Kinescopes, so you'll have to keep that in mind when you judge the image quality of these. It's not the best thing in the world, but they were working with what they had back then.
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whaleallright
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#34 Post by whaleallright »

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Last edited by whaleallright on Tue Jan 24, 2012 2:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
jmdo
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#35 Post by jmdo »

Re: kinescopes & source material: "Days of Wine And Roses," from 1958, still survives on 2" videotape, which would provide sound and image quality far superior to a kinescope. I've seen it at the Museum of Television and Radio in New York and it looks fantastic. It would be a real shame if Criterion didn't go back to the 2" source--akin to mastering from 16mm when 35mm elements exist.
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domino harvey
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#36 Post by domino harvey »

I think most of these masters already exist, so the odds of Criterion spending extra money to redo one doesn't seem good-- hope I'm wrong, though!
jmdo
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#37 Post by jmdo »

domino harvey wrote:I think most of these masters already exist, so the odds of Criterion spending extra money to redo one doesn't seem good-- hope I'm wrong, though!
Boy, TV don't get no respect at all, eh? Imagine saying that about another Criterion title. And a transfer from a remastered 2" is really just a straight dub, not like a feature that needs a DP-approved supervised transfer. Oh well. I'll certainly buy this release, because the titles are so great, and in hopes that more will follow.

By the way, the Shatner/McQueen/Bellamy Studio One "Defenders" DVD is on an "official" release--i.e., decent quality, from VSC. Though probably out of print now.

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cdnchris
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#38 Post by cdnchris »

I sampled a couple of episodes and the image quality is probably what you'd expect from Kinescope: It doesn't look all that hot. Other than "Wine and Roses" (which the poster above mentions has better elements) I doubt much could have been done. It's a lovely looking set, though.
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Napier
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#39 Post by Napier »

cdnchris wrote:It's a lovely looking set, though.
Please get cracking on a review for us Chris. This is one of the releases I've been anticipating the most. I cant wait for my copy to arrive.
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#40 Post by cdnchris »

jmdo
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#41 Post by jmdo »

Chris--

Re: the source material. Criterion did indeed pass over superior source material for "Days of Wine and Roses." As I mentioned in a previous post, this program exists not only as a kinescope--the inherent defects of which you noted--but as a videotape master from the original 2" tape used for the broadcast. The tape master has far superior video and audio quality, and the genuine "feel" of live television. Video masters are extremely rare for television drama of this period, and it's really appalling that Criterion would ignore a superior source when it still exists. It's already been restored, and there just can't be any true cost difference since it's already a video master! Shame.
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Dadapass
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#42 Post by Dadapass »

Perkins Cobb
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#43 Post by Perkins Cobb »

Why do I get the feeling Gary's never seen a "kineoscope" before?
hangman
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#44 Post by hangman »

Well I finally got this set, could've gotten it last week but not enough cash, just popped in the first disc and got down to watching the first movie.

Marty was a pretty fun movie that starts out as an underdog beaten down, you really do feel for the poor guy, but I couldn't help but laugh as the latter half things get thrown around in reverse. It was a nice subtle shift from the reversal
Spoiler
sure you know that things are looking up for him when he meets the
but you don't necessarily feel that things looking up for Marty would result in a re-examination of your own position, I'm sure we all have a Marty or even a Marty ourselves at one point and that was nicely handled by the movie. Definitely can't wait to get cracking on the other movies the following days, will just edit this post I guess as I watch more. For those curious, seeing as the screen caps show image quality, regarding sound of this film I'd say its discernable, very few lines are hard to catch (thanks in part to the accent) but doesn't necessarily need subs turned on.

Patterns... this movie is really intense, something akin to 12 Angry Men, it puts a strong message across the corporate structure. Yet, it never feels like a lecture or sermon as it just lets the events speak for themselves as things unfold. What especially impressed me was the final scenes sure the movie does have a skew towards white rather than black, definitely not gray, with regards to ethics but that talk between Ramsey and Staples was handled well that in my opinion it still manages to hear out the opinion of the other side rather than revel on what should be the right side (course we do get something like this earlier in a board room meeting but hey the final scene comes across much nicely, with an added touch of some humor that doesn't feel out of place or lighten the mood but makes you laugh). I'm can't help but love this set, I can't wait to make my way to the other movies. Notably though with Marty and Patterns the writting of the dialogue is great, its concise and to the point but also very natural (in the case of Marty) or quite well reasoned/prepared (as in Patterns) by prepared I mean not that it feels unnatural just that the characters definitely think before they speak.

No Time for Sergeants was less impressive than the previous two. While part of my impression stems from the type of comedy not really being my type of humor, I felt the comedy to be rather aged... The jokes just didn't seem to translate much, also I felt this to be the most "theatre like" of the films so far. Not much to say here for me.

A Wind from the South on the other hand first half wasn't so impressive but the latter half, or say around act II was when the film picked up for me. The details of the first half and the dialogue, which I found too sugary and too obviously "written" that it lacked the more down to earth or more realist tone of the first two movies (well the movie isn't really aiming for realism I guess but I mean that their dialogue especially with regards the dreams and feathers was just too contrived). Yet the latter half when the expectations you think the movie will head into a certain direction is pulled out right under you the intensity of the quiet drama shines. You just don't expect the twist and the ending altogether with the song just leaves you with this bitter sweet feeling. Found this good just wish it wasn't so labored with the dialogue, yeah sure the other films do have that labored quality to it (though I'd argue not Marty) but with this film its far more apparent.

Hope other got this set, or gave it a shot. Well for the next two dramas, both sports, one was great IMO while the other fell flat... Bang the Drum Slowly fell flat for me due to the first person narrative we see on screen, while it does appear to be a rather creative way to make scene transitions and such I felt that it tended to difuse the atmosphere of scenes. In that it tries to impose to the audience, much like the laughter of studio audiences in No Time for Sergeants except even more imposing as the narrator's emotions are literally seen from the teary eyed to the choking voice. It just felt choking with the narration, and I wasn't that impressed with the writting or the cast with this either its far less natural to the earlier dramas. I was just disappointed by Bang the Drum Slowly... On the other hand Requiem For a Heavy Weight just did everything great. I don't think I need to chide it for the praises of this show but its definitely quite good, though I still love Patterns from the Serling screenplays but still this one had that heart felt and gritty realism that I enjoyed with the earlier dramas such as Marty and Patterns. Quite good stuff!

As for The Comedian.... Hm.... kinda ambivalent with this one I mean it definitely did its job well in getting one to be disgusted with the behind the scenes of show biz, hard not to hate the guy. And its interesting to see how that small terrible aging man was like a disease bringing down people... Yet... I think it could've held back a little more that trying to show the dark side, yeah there is some ambivalence with the sudden gestures of Sam but they never really felt genuine in the first place or something that big of a deal that I wasn't sucked in by the so called charm of the guy. By holding back I mean it was just too easy to take so many jabs at the guy, to hate him like I said I wasn't drawn in by his random gestures, or the fact that showbize can really change a person or ruin them. I don't know... still trying to organize thoughts about this one. Hoping someone can chide in with this title. So now I am down to the last one. Overall I'm quite happy with the set.

Yeesh, I'm much more of a fan of the earlier TV plays before they got their extended running time. Days of Wine and Roses was a disappointement for me. It may not have had dialogue that was a "sermon", though there are some here and there but at least the film didn't write every line to be one, but the visuals certainly were a sermon or rather a "holier than thou" or "please save me god". The AA meeting holding place, and that placard that pops up in the transition or the first thing we see came across as that. Doesn't help either that it went rather heavy handed with its approah to portraying alchoholism, to the point that it wasn't so much disturbing than funny akin to something out of a sort of horror movie (kinda reminds me of House Maid but alas lacking the camera movements and shadows that gave it a more fevered pitch). Pretty disappointed with this film... at least the ending wasn't a cop out. So I guess my impressions are I loved half of the films in the set but ended up much colder to the other half. Still its a pleasure to discover some gems thanks to this set.
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Max von Mayerling
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#45 Post by Max von Mayerling »

I recently borrowed this from the library and watched Patterns, Requiem for a Heavyweight, the Comedian, and Days of Wine and Roses. I strongly recommend at least renting or borrowing this. As noted above, Requiem for a Heavyweight by itself would make the set worthwhile. Palance really blew my mind. I also thought that the Comedian was really pretty amazing - Mickey Rooney plays quite the son of a bitch - and the story is pretty bleak. Reminded me (remotely) of Sweet Smell of Success and (even more remotely) of the Larry Sanders Show. And I thought the direction in all of these was quite interesting - especially Frankenheimer's direction of the Comedian. It must have been insanely complicated to arrange for all of those cuts and camera moves for live television. The set also provides a way to see what I understand are the two stories that really launched Rod Serling - Patterns and Requiem for a Heavyweight.
felipe
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#46 Post by felipe »

Are there english subtitles for all the movies?
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MrGregoryArkadin
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#47 Post by MrGregoryArkadin »

Feego wrote:
manicsounds wrote:Where did this Frankenheimer commentary come from? Spliced interviews, or recorded years ago and put on a backburner?
According to a poster on the IMDb, all of these films and commentaries were previously released on laser disc. The only difference is that the laser disc also contained The Defender, with Steven McQueen, William Shatner, and Martin Balsam, but did not include A Wind from the South, which is on Criterion's set.
Any info on how to obtain the laserdisc version with "The Defender", cant seem to find any info on it, nor the post on IMDB you mentioned. Thanks.
wicka43
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#48 Post by wicka43 »

Hello. Can anyone identify the opening theme music that was used for the beginning of each episode of the series(The Golden Age of Television) as it originally aired. I remember a light orchestral waltz playing as previews of the shows slid by. I haven't heard it since then. Many thanks for any info.
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movielocke
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#49 Post by movielocke »

Marty is decent, though ultimately unspectacular, the feature film surprisingly is superior because of the stronger central performance and slightly expanded narrative. Through all fifty minutes, though, this is crisp but occasionally goes a bit big and overly theatrical with the yelling, the film makes you feel like this relationship, this night in the life of Marty, is a life and death high stakes scenario, which is both a strength and a drawback because it's a little too much, perhaps. The writing is excellent and the focus on the working class, un-glamorous folks feels rather foreign when compared to your typical hollywood product of the period.

Patterns is fucking superb. Stunningly great writing, it's like a harsher, more grim variant on Wilder's The Apartment; it lacks the sex, corporate sleaze and comedy of Wilder, but it goes for the modernist and bleak ending, eschewing the crowd-pleasing triumph of Wilder's take. Here, the hero falls victim to the devil, is seduced into staying on with the dangled temptation that "of course" you can fight for your principles later so long as you first abandon them now. The writing and performances are blistering and crackle with an intense vitality you'd expect from the best of television's current golden age. A revelation. Wow.

No Time for Sergeants is easily the funniest I've ever seen Andy Griffith. he owns a role that is perfect for him, and the entire fifty minute play breezes by as delightfully as any Sturges film. I howled with laughter throughout, "No sah, I ain't never had no store whiskey," and was consistently impressed by the style of the film. Unlike the other films in the set, here they chose to bring theater's black box aesthetic to television, which gives the filmmaking an almost avante garde look and technique. This brashly modern, stripped bare approach with complex X and Z axis staging and Rope-like long takes complements the material, rather than clashing with it, it draws all the focus to the performances and the writing, but if you split your attention, it's really a remarkably interesting and beautifully executed piece of direction and camera choreography.

After the watching the introduction, I had to go look up Griffith's comic monologue on Hamlet, pretty terrific.

http://youtu.be/UDcDrSaJ0C4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
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whaleallright
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Re: 495 The Golden Age of Television

#50 Post by whaleallright »

"Bang the Drum Slowly" also has some overtly theatrical elements, both in Paul Newman's direct address to the audience/camera and in the way the sets are shown--we're allowed to see that they are sets, that they lack ceilings and actors exit them onto an empty stage. what's different than the theater is that the TV episode can switch between a classical cinematic decoupage in which we accept the putative "reality" of the world being depicted, and a more--for the lack of a better term--demonstrative/declarative approach in which that world is acknowledged as a kind of fiction (even though this framing device is, of course, itself fictional). this occurs in film--I think of Wood's OUR TOWN or Ophuls's LA RONDE, or even Renoir's LA CHIENNE--but it's perhaps a _bit_ more common in live TV drama.
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