Criterion's obsession with Suzuki

[ByMarkClark.com]

I'd be willing to bet the reasons we haven't seen Mizooguchi or Naruse yet in the CC are more economic or technical - related to rights or source materials - than matters of personal taste. I also wouldn't be surprised if, once the gates are opened, we didn't see several Mizoguchi and/or Naruse titles come tumbling onto the schedule. Look what happened with Ozu: For years just GOOD MORNING, then bang.

[Jun-Dai]

So we can agree that there are six Suzukis and zero Mizoguchis and Naruses in the collection for one or more of the following reasons:

* They hate us.
* They hate Naruse and Mizoguchi.
* Sex and violence sells better.
* Old (pre-60s) movies are dumb.
* Suzuki sells better.
* Someone there has a fetish for Suzuki.
* They like Naruse and Mizoguchi too much to release them casually.
* The timing of the projects and the people they have to work with just worked out that way.
* The prints/rights issues have delayed the Naruse and Mizuguchi films.
* Suzuki's still making films and they want to be in a good position to make money off of any interest that those films generate (if any of his recent films ever get distributed in the U.S.)
* Suzuki's old and they want to be in a good position to make money when he dies.
* Someone (e.g., Jim Jarmusch, Seijun Suzuki, or the president of Nikkatsu) told them to, and they couldn't say no.

Did I miss any?

[Keaton]

Hi,

Well, I think it is a bit easy to blame the Suzuki's because you guys (and I'm too) are depressed that there are no Mizoguchis and Naruses (or whatever) in the collection.
I mean have you guy's ever thought of the possibility that Suzuki IS a great and influential director who deserves to be in the collection with more than one or two titles (if you like him or not makes no difference!)? You know only because he isn't that highly regarded in the west doesn't mean he is unworthy or something.
I apologize if I get this whole thread wrong, but I can't help to think this thread is a sort of childish Suzuki bashing to relieve your frustration.
Mizoguchi will get his attention when everything is ready, that has nothing to do with the Suzuki's or Crazed Fruit or other "not so high regarded movie" releases. Be happy that criterion is releasing them instead of Facets and wait till the Mizoguchis are ready, but skip this bashing, it's senseless.
And don't forget: no offence here!

Regards,

Dennis

[Gregory]

I'm curious which posts you read that looked like "bashing" to you. One person noted that Suzuki didn't receive much attention from North American critics and viewers until very recently not as a put-down but by way of explaining why Criterion might be excited about releasing lots of Suzuki right now.
On the other hand, some of the Mizoguchi films I'm most looking forward to have accumulated only 15 to 20 votes on IMDB in years, so the matter of which films are most highly regarded is certainly irrelevant to my desire to have them.

[Keaton]

Hi,

As I said it's more a "sort of" bashing...it's hard to explain what I mean...
Look, simply to open a thread on a director which ask's "how on earth can they release six of his Film, there must be another reason beside the director himselfs" is, if you agree with me on that or not, a kind of bashing.
I mean look at the sum-up of possibilities mentioned in this thread from Jun-Dai, most of them aren't flattering to Suzuki and his films.

You are right about the imdb and some Mizoguchi films, but a lot of Suzuki's have the same destiny of being nearly never seen (look at Story of a Prostitute, or many of his early ones). But that isn't the point, with "highly regarded" i didn't mean "often seen by "normal" audience" (what displays the imdb in my opinion), i meant regarded in by critics and buffs, where Mizoguchi is without doubt more "worshiped" than Suzuki.
By the way: don't think i'm some die hard Suzuki fan who feels himself pushed to "protect" his favorite director or something, I would be more happy about nearly every Mizoguchi as I am about the Suzuki's. I simply think this thread is...I don't know, let's say unnecessary.

Regards,

Dennis

[unclehulot]

Hi,


I mean have you guy's ever thought of the possibility that Suzuki IS a great and influential director who deserves to be in the collection with more than one or two titles

Great is a word that gets bandied about with regard to various important figures in the world, but I would never possibly be able to consider Suzuki "great" or even a particular master. What words would then describe the truly great artists who left permanent imprints on the various arts? Nope, Suzuki has his interest, he's an unusual genre bender who spent most of his career as a hack, and had the guts to step outside of the b-picture pro-forma style for a handful of interesting films........but they're interesting more for applying some spice to a genre than blazing a path or codifying it with some special mastery. Just my two cents.

[Keaton]

truly great artists

Ok, ignore the word "great" and put "important" in my post for it.
I wouldn't call him that either, but here are many directors in the collection with more than one or two films, which I like very much too, whom I wouldn't call that.
You know the collection is first of all a bunch films which are important and influential, and that are suzuki films without doubt. All the other talk about "good" or "bad" or "truly great artists" is personal opinion.

Regards,

Dennis

[jcelwin]

But are the individual films themselves more deserving to be in the collection than some films by other directors? Or, should they be left for a while so that other films can be worked on?

[Jun-Dai]

I don't believe in "great" and "better", etc., except with regard to reputation, and Suzuki does not have the canonical, critical reputation of Mizoguchi or Naruse. This means that, if Criterion has complete control over what they put out (which they don't, by any means), they are making a statement by putting out 6 Suzuki films without having put out any Mizoguchi, et al. That statement would probably either be that Suzuki is grossly underrated, that Mizoguchi, et al, are overrated, or that they think Suzuki is more saleable. By making the list, I was trying to capture the vibe of what other posters have been expressing. I, for one, have been happy to have the Suzukis they've put out so far, and I'm willing to wait for Mizoguchi and Naruse, since I don't have the means to buy them now (I haven't bought a DVD in two years now, excepting the Cassavettes set [am I making a statement by this?]). My hope is that on my list, the reasonable and unreasonable explanations are as clear and visible as they would be if the reasonable ones were written in red and the unreasonable in black.

I created a thread, because it seemed like some people probably wanted to get something off of their chest wrt the six Suzukis and the lack of Naruse and Mizoguchi, and I'd rather see that here than in the individual Suzuki film threads.

Six is a lot.

[jcelwin]

I think the most probable reason is that Suzukis films are more saleable and probably easier to obtain and ready for distribution.

[Michael Kerpan]

FWIW, the first sustained bit of Naruse DVD activity starts in Japan this month. -- with "Lightning" and "Older Brother, Younger Sister". As much as I (seem to) love criticizing Criterion, it surely is unreasonable to expect much from them _before_ Toho does its own (hopefully remastered) releases.

[feihong]

I'm surprised I haven't seen this thread earlier. Here's my 2 cents on a couple of issues:

A couple years ago, Nikkatsu, in the wake of Pistol Opera and increased cult interest in Suzuki in Japan, decided that the 35-or-so Suzuki movies they owned would probably sell on DVD. They started restoring the films so that they would be DVD releasable. They planned to release about 20 of the films on DVD, but somehow only a handful are available in Japan. But the restoration seems to have already begun.

I think that as a result of this, Criterion has good prints to work from on the Suzuki films, whereas the Mizoguchi is probably a lot harder of a chore. I don't know of any big Mizoguchi restoration push in Japan (correct me if I'm wrong about this), certainly not the equivalent of that for the more recent Japanese cult filmmakers.

The complaint that Criterion is apparently favoring Suzuki over Mizoguchi seems really silly. Plus, let's not forget that until this year, Criterion was firmly replying "We have no plans to release any more Suzuki titles." Probably the success of the Homevision DVDs spurred Criterion on, but there's still not some great interest on their part. The films Criterion is releasing are all films Homevision already released on VHS in the U.S. The rights were sitting there with Janus. They haven't gone out, as Homevision apparently pushed to do, and found more Suzuki material to get. If they were truly interested in Suzuki, they ought to be trying for his most brilliant film, Zigeunerweisen, a film that ties all of his filmography together.

But I have to disagree with the criticism that Criterion releases the best Suzuki. Tatooed Life and Kanto Wanderer are two of Suzuki's most wonderful films, truly unique in the world of Yakuza films for their visual symbolism, which Suzuki uses to express the inner thoughts and feelings of principle characters. Both of these are thematically sophisticated films, much moreso than Youth of the Beast or Gate of Flesh or Tokyo Drifter. The gangsters' reticence in Kanto Wanderer is the funniest ode to procrastination I've seen in a film, and it is certainly unique subject matter for a film. The film itself is as evocative as any Suzuki picture, but I suspect that the unusual nature of the thematic material and the storytelling devices give Kanto Wanderer a worse rap in the English-speaking part of the world than the film deserves. It is significantly more subtle and creative in its expression than Fighting Elegy. I think what Criterion seems to be releasing is Suzuki's most "accessible" work, i.e., that which conforms most readily to genre expectations. Branded to Kill excepted, the Criterion releases are the most straightforward in Suzuki's filmography, and while they are strong films, they don't speak so much toward Suzuki's more unprecedented creative side.

I most desperately want to see Zigeunerweisen released with English subtitles, but I'm also quite interested in seeing some of the earlier titles, like Flower and the Angry Waves, Carmen From Kawachi, and Blood Doesn't Forgive. I saw the laserdisc of Flower recently and it appears to be an exciting, well-appointed work for Suzuki.

[Cinephrenic]

Janus owns a bunch of Naruse, if not most of it. I never came across Late Chrysanthemun or Floating Clouds, but everytime I do a search its a Janus holding. So what is the delay. They could have released at least 1 o 2 of his films by now.

[Gregory]

How do you search the Janus catalog?

[Michael Kerpan]

Janus owns a bunch of Naruse, if not most of it. I never came across Late Chrysanthemun or Floating Clouds, but everytime I do a search its a Janus holding. So what is the delay. They could have released at least 1 o 2 of his films by now.

Film distribution rights are not DVD distribution rights. Janus handling films does not equal automatic availability to Criterion for US DVD release.

Toho owns MOST of the most renowned Naruse films. Toho runs a tight ship -- and rarely does anything that it thinks might hurt its position in the Japanese market. Toho has been working on a Naruse DVD project (albeit nothing as comprehensive as I would like) and will release the first two DVDs at the end of this month. Toho is not likely to allow anyone to use cleaned-up materials for a DVD anywhere outside Japan until some time after the Japanese DVD release.

[Cinephrenic]

I'm aware of seperate distribution and film ownership rights, but Toho is a international market. Their films would not interest the general public in the states because its not formally a R1 release. True Criterion releases non-regional coding most of the time and i'm sure Toho is aware of that, but when was the last time Naruse was released in the states, if ever? He is practically unknown in the western world. If we knon him, it's because we have interest in film and its history.

[Jun-Dai]

Toho's releases are not intended to interest the American market (I suspect the DVDs don't have English subtitles, and they'll be region 2), but they fear people importing discs into Japan. If Criterion released them, they would find their way back to Japan, and Toho probably wouldn't want that until the Japanese market has had plenty of time to pick up their version of the films. If you look at the discs, you'll see that all the Toho Criterion's are region-1 encoded, which is because Toho demanded it. Nor would they allow Criterion to get Godzilla, in spite of letting Rialto do a theatrical release of it state-side (one of the only Rialto releases, afaik, that Criterion/HomeVision doesn't have access to. The Producers is another).

[Gregory]

Cinephrenic:
I phrased my question carelessly. What I was trying to ask is where you were looking up Naruse films that showed them as Janus collection. I've looked up quite a few on IMDB in the past and I think nearly all of them just said Toho.

[unclehulot]

Cinephrenic:
I phrased my question carelessly. What I was trying to ask is where you were looking up Naruse films that showed them as Janus collection. I've looked up quite a few on IMDB in the past and I think nearly all of them just said Toho.

IMDB is not worth anything in determining CURRENT ownership of a film. If it was EVER distributed by Janus it might appear there, but not be currently owned. And, on the other hand, if someone doesn't submit it the current owner may be missing. I would never use IMDB as hard evidence of much of anything.

[Gregory]

I know of IMDB's limitations -- that's why I've been trying to find out what a better source is for looking up rights ownership.

[Cinephrenic]

Nothing I remember recently, but within time I've seen theatrical showing listing on sites where the courtesy was paid to Janus. I do remember it was on his lesser known works, but nevertheless, Janus. If you do some random search, expecially the word "courtesy Janus" you might find some.

The current ones I remember are:
When a Woman Ascends the Stairs
Repast

[Theodore R. Stockton]

I doesn't really help in this case but I've found that a better way to get at least an idea to who owns the rights to something is instead of looking on imdb's company credits, click the link to amazon and see who had it on video last.

[ByMarkClark.com]

Another thought on this: I don't think you can logically extrapolate from the number of titles Criterion has released by a given director that the powers that be within the CC believe that director is superior to anyone else. Ie, "They must like Suzuki better than Mizoguchi, because they've released so much Suzuki and no Mizoguchi yet."

By that logic, you would have to conclude that Criterion considers Wes Anderson a more significant director than Rene Clair, Fritz Lang or Ernst Lubitsch! Or that they consider Michael Bay superior to Orson Welles!

Somehow, I doubt it.

[Michael Kerpan]

Nothing I remember recently, but within time I've seen theatrical showing listing on sites where the courtesy was paid to Janus. I do remember it was on his lesser known works, but nevertheless, Janus. If you do some random search, expecially the word "courtesy Janus" you might find some.

The current ones I remember are:
When a Woman Ascends the Stairs
Repast

"Repast" isn't a "lesser known work" (just a not often seen one). ;~} There's only one English-subbed print of this in circulation in the world at the present moment -- and it is a very aged one which belongs to the Japan Foundation. No credits for Janus on THAT print -- I can assure you.

I don't recall any credit to Janus when this was shown in Boston most recently. And no credit for Janus is mentioned in LACMA's online "Sontag Festival II" listing:

http://www.lacma.org/art/film/0503MarFi ... _march.htm

[davida2]

I missed this thread until now; I was kinda wondering when something like this would appear.

I would have to say that I'm very disappointed to see no Mizoguchi or Naruse in the catalog; by this point I would've expected at least a couple from both directors would be a given. I'm not nearly as enthusiastic about Suzuki; I've liked a few of his films quite a bit but I'm not much for pulp stuff, and several others of his films I've been very indifferent to.

This noted - I can see the logic of having Suzuki in the catalog - and I would consider him to be an 'important' director (however I might define that), one that I just happen to not like very much. There isn't much commentary on his work and career, and the availability of his work may change that, and historically speaking, that's a plus.

The theories as to why Mizo and Naruse have remained so difficult to see (earlier in this thread) are all sensible to me, some of them mirror my own guesses. In any case I'm resigned to the fact that we still may have to wait quite a while to see their work appear - I am confident (whatever the sales projections) that an (excruciatingly) belated DVD appearance of both directoes will generate quite a few new fans - this is what happened with both Ozu and Suzuki, and if Criterion is willing to do the same amount of promotion, Mizoguchi and Naruse (or, eventually, Imamura, Shindo, Oshima, or Kobayashi) releases won't be sitting in shops collecting dust.