The Armond White Thread

[kaujot]

I believe Graham Greene came in second in a "write like Graham Greene" contest.

[domino harvey]

What TV series is better than the Sopranos, the Wire, and Twin Peaks combined? As if you couldn't guess

[domino harvey]

Oh, and then there was this:

[Lucrecia] Martel is a very minor art-filmmaker. Not especially insightful, she exemplifies the second-rate aesthetics of underdeveloped cultures.

[solaris72]

What TV series is better than the Sopranos, the Wire, and Twin Peaks combined? As if you couldn't guess

Being unfamiliar with Peyton Place I was (seriously) certain it was going to be Tyler Perry's House of Payne.

The matter-of-factness of this series demonstrates that essential life issues could be the basis of high-drama without the gore and depravity that...The Wire...exploit[s].

Why would artists make art about miserable poor people when happy suburbanites make for much more pleasant stories!
Also, the fact that Death Race gets a pass from White while The Wire is apparently exploitively gory...did we need any more proof he's a troll? I almost think we should move all discussion regarding Mr. White into Infighting and Navel-Gazing.

[MichaelB]

The opening of his review of The Baader-Meinhof Complex:

Even with my expensive college education—which included two courses on Europe in the 20th-century—I had never heard of the Red Army Faction, aka the Baader Meinhof Group, a political group who terrified German politicians in the 1970s with increasingly violent acts of protest against Germany’s support of American imperialism.

Is this ignorance widespread amongst educated Americans? Because I just can't imagine a European of Armond's age not at least recognising the names Baader and Meinhof and knowing that they had something to do with terrorism, even if they can't summon up an exact chronology of their activities from memory.

[domino harvey]

Well, the good news is that White didn't write that review

[MichaelB]

Fair enough - I just clicked on the link and jumped to conclusions. Whoops.

(My question still stands, though, even though it's now off-topic)

[fiddlesticks]

Is this ignorance widespread amongst educated Americans? Because I just can't imagine a European of Armond's age not at least recognising the names Baader and Meinhof and knowing that they had something to do with terrorism, even if they can't summon up an exact chronology of their activities from memory.

No. I don't know (or care) what Armond's age is, but anyone of my age (almost 50) or older who was paying any attention at all to world events in the 1970s would, as you say, at least recognize the name "Baader Meinhof Group" (although perhaps not as the the "Red Army Faction," which is not a name I recall.)

[foggy eyes]

Oh, and then there was this:

[Lucrecia] Martel is a very minor art-filmmaker. Not especially insightful, she exemplifies the second-rate aesthetics of underdeveloped cultures.

Wow. Actually floored.

That means she wastes widescreen compositions, frequently cutting off Vero's head or obscuring her face. [...] Negative space is not filmmaking-especially when it translates into what is actually class- and feminist-unconsciousness.

Go on then, tell me more about class, Armond...

[knives]

Is this ignorance widespread amongst educated Americans? Because I just can't imagine a European of Armond's age not at least recognising the names Baader and Meinhof and knowing that they had something to do with terrorism, even if they can't summon up an exact chronology of their activities from memory.

No. I don't know (or care) what Armond's age is, but anyone of my age (almost 50) or older who was paying any attention at all to world events in the 1970s would, as you say, at least recognize the name "Baader Meinhof Group" (although perhaps not as the the "Red Army Faction," which is not a name I recall.)

I've actually heard Red Army Faction more often Baader Meinhof Group. Didn't hear that name until this movie actually. That have to do more with me skimming history though,

[FerdinandGriffon]

That means she wastes widescreen compositions, frequently cutting off Vero's head or obscuring her face.

Bwahahahaha. Someone needs to remind him that the film is called The Headless Woman. Easily the most expertly, gorgeously composed film I've seen this year, worthy of comparison to Antonioni's best work, in my opinion.

[Phil]

Oh, and then there was this:

[Lucrecia] Martel is a very minor art-filmmaker. Not especially insightful, she exemplifies the second-rate aesthetics of underdeveloped cultures.

Wow. Actually floored.

Had to read this sentence three or four times to make sure that it actually existed and that my mind hadn't developed some complex where it automatically inserted the most ludicrous ideas possible into every Armond White review I looked at. But yeah, that seriously might be the worst thing I've ever read from him...which is well, really saying something.

[swo17]

Funny, he doesn't seem to mind the second rate aesthetics of this guy:

[Perkins Cobb]

Peyton Place actually is that good, although of course by using it to club The Wire and The Sopranos Armond ensures that no one will take him seriously.

[domino harvey]

I liked the original Peyton Place movie a lot, actually, but I'm sure Armond White thinks it failed where, oh, I don't know, Wild in the Country succeeded

[jbeall]

I've not seen Peyton Place, although I have a hard time imagining any show being as good as The Wire. That said, the latter show is hardly "gory."

After the "second-rate aesthetics" comment, however, I'm done coming to this thread. Life is too short to keep getting outraged over an asshat troll who's not all that influential (except on this forum) anyway.

[Mr Sausage]

Peyton Place is the source of David Lynch’s most audacious experiment, the 1990 nighttime TV-soap Twin Peaks. At his best in that Northwest existential mystery, Lynch merely matched the everyday mysteries of Peyton Place

And though it seems apostasy to say it, Peyton Place’s moral and spiritual clarity remain superior to Lynch’s smirky, pop-culture-fixated terror

I guess "existential" and "apostasy" can join "nihilism" on the list of big words Armond White doesn't understand.

[Jeff]

And though it seems apostasy to say it, Peyton Place’s moral and spiritual clarity remain superior to Lynch’s smirky, pop-culture-fixated terror

I guess "existential" and "apostasy" can join "nihilism" on the list of big words Armond White doesn't understand.

And "Smirky, Pop-Culture-Fixated Terror" would be a good name for White's column.

[Nothing]

the second-rate aesthetics of underdeveloped cultures

Even I would have to call Armond on this, for his short-term memory if nothing else (haven't seen the Martel). But what I hope Armond meant to say is that most modern 'developing' cinema is dispiritingly second-rate. The radical, politically engaged voices of Rocha, Brocka and Ghatak have been replaced by the bourgeois dilettantism of Wong, Weerasethakul and Inarritu. Of course, a western audience equally mired in complacency must shoulder much of the blame, along with the western producers, sales agents and distributors who place profit over principle. And hopefully a wind will come... It'll be interesting to see what Armond makes of Kinatay.

[foggy eyes]

Even I would have to call Armond on this, for his short-term memory if nothing else (haven't seen the Martel). But what I hope Armond meant to say is that most modern 'developing' cinema is dispiritingly second-rate. The radical, politically engaged voices of Rocha, Brocka and Ghatak have been replaced by the bourgeois dilettantism of Wong, Weerasethakul and Inarritu. Of course, a western audience equally mired in complacency must shoulder much of the blame, along with the western producers, sales agents and distributors who place profit over principle. And hopefully a wind will come... It'll be interesting to see what Armond makes of Kinatay.

Ghatak ---> Iñárritu? Straining a little to make a point there? And surely Brocka ---> Diaz rather than Apichatpong....

[Nothing]

Straining a little to make a point there?

Just practicing for when they finally fire Armond :-"

[foggy eyes]

Just practicing for when they finally fire Armond :-"

I'll be your biggest fan!

[GringoTex]

The radical, politically engaged voices of Rocha, Brocka and Ghatak have been replaced by the bourgeois dilettantism of Wong, Weerasethakul and Inarritu.

Or you could say the radical, politically engaged voices of Rocha, Brocka and Ghatak have been replaced by the radical, politically engaged voices of Martel, Reygadas, and Alonso.

But I'm pretty sure Armond wrote that quote awhile back and it was purely arbitrary that A Headless Woman was the first underdeveloped film he reviewed since then.

[Grand Illusion]

Straining a little to make a point there?

Just practicing for when they finally fire Armond :-"

This was a pretty good forum post, but it lacks the visionary exploration of neoclassicism that Brian DePalma posted in a similar web forum in 1997.

[MichaelB]

Straining a little to make a point there?

Just practicing for when they finally fire Armond :-"

This was a pretty good forum post, but it lacks the visionary exploration of neoclassicism that Brian DePalma posted in a similar web forum in 1997.

Which in turn was the merest bagatelle compared with Steven Spielberg's mighty Usenet oeuvre.