Roman Polanski Arrested

[Grand Illusion]

Justice should remain impartial - would we respect the victim's wishes if she espoused vengeful feeling and wanted Polanski chased down and killed?

After reading her initial testimony of what happened, yes, I would.

[Highway 61]

The bitch knew what she was up to

I can't believe I'm reading this on this forum. Blaming the victim in cases of rape and abuse is as old as the hills, but has been repeatedly exposed as a pernicious lie by scores of doctors, lawyers, police, social caseworkers, etc. Even if there were a shred of truth to it in this instance, to call a 13 year old victim of rape a "bitch" is hateful in the extreme. I'm not an important voice on this forum, but I have read it almost daily for over eight years, and this is the most disgusting thing I've ever come across on it.

[Caged Horse]

The bitch knew what she was up to

Polanski might well be finding out firsthand what it's like to be a 'bitch', too.

[ellipsis7]

Leaving aside all that (she was a minor)...

Thierry Fremaux enlists Harvey Weinstein in bid to save Polanski
28 September, 2009 | By Jeremy Kay | Screen Daily

Harvey Weinstein has leant his support to a move by the French film-making community to petition against the possible US extradition of Roman Polanski following the Oscar winning director’s arrest in Zurich late on Saturday.


Weinstein immediately become involved when he was approached by Cannes Film Festival director Thierry Fremaux after Polanski was taken into custody in connection with the charge of unlawful sexual intercourse with a 13-year-old girl dating back to 1977.

“We’re calling on every film-maker we can to help fix this terrible situation,” Weinstein said. Sources close to The Weinstein Company said the mogul would reach out to Hollywood to lobby against any move to bring Polanski to the US, where he could face up to 50 years in jail.

It is understood the Los Angeles County District Attorney’s office learned of Polanski’s trip to the Zurich Film Festival and presented an arrest warrant to Swiss authorities who promptly took him into custody. The Oscar winning director of The Pianist was due to give a masterclass at the festival on Sunday.

However the timing of the arrest has puzzled observers, who pointed out Polanski had owned a property in Switzerland and made a number of visits prior to his detention. Indeed the director’s agent, ICM chief Jeff Berg, said the film-maker was in Switzerland this summer editing The Ghost.

Swiss Justice Ministry spokesman Guido Balmer rejected suggestions that the arrest was political. Unsubstantiated online reports claim the incident may be a gambit by Switzerland to curry favour with US authorities in light of the unfolding tax evasion scandal involving the Swiss banking giant UBS and American account holders.

In a statement issued on Sunday Polanski’s attorneys said: “We were unaware of any extradition being sought and separate counsel will be retained for those proceedings.”

After Weinstein picked up international theatrical rights last January to the HBO documentary Roman Polanski: Wanted And Desired, which highlights legal irregularities in the case against the director, he intimated the film might play a part in getting the charges dropped.

Earlier this year a Los Angeles Superior Court Judge rejected Polanski’s attempt to do just that after the Polish director failed to appear in court in person, however the judge agreed there was “substantial misconduct” in the original hearing. An appeal is pending.

Polanski fled the US to France in 1978 after he pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor, now 45-year-old Samantha Geimer, who subsequently sued the director for an undisclosed amount and earlier this year called on authorities to drop the case against him.

[R0lf]

Really Polanski must have lead a very sad life with what happened to Sharon and the entire rape case. I don't know if its really excusable with what he did but I do feel a lot of sympathy towards him. I hope this is resolved quickly.

[ellipsis7]

David Thomson on 'Roman Polanski and the 31 year old legal headache' in The Guardian online...

It was Sunday morning in Los Angeles on one of the most beautiful weekends anyone had ever seen. The city woke up determined to enjoy the day, but in an hour a few people – a very select group – became depressed and anxious. They are the judges and they have trouble coming their way. It is a problem they have sometimes thought about, but one they dismissed. No, it would never happen.

It has happened. In Zurich, arriving there for the film festival and about to be given a tribute, Roman Polanski has been taken into custody by authorities remembering a 31-year-old arrest warrant. They were alerted by US authorities who have never given up on the case. Extradition is in the air, though it could take a few months. Is Polanski returning to the US? If he is, one of the those judges is going to have an awkward time.

Even in Los Angeles, however, the general public reading the news probably needed to be reminded what this was all about. The history of the movies, even its scandals, has receded a long way – it's all "Chinatown" now, and the newspaper editors wonder whether they can let that remark go or does it need to be explained?

The explanation comes quickly. It needs no more than a single paragraph. On 11 March 1977, Polanski was arrested in the lobby of the Beverly Wilshire hotel by Detective Philip Vannatter (a cop who would figure in the OJ Simpson case). The Polish film director was charged as follows: giving Quaaludes to a minor; child molestation; unlawful sexual intercourse with that minor; rape by use of drugs; oral copulation; sodomy. The girl was 13, though Polanski would say that she looked older.

The rape had occurred in the house of Jack Nicholson, a place Polanski used as he wished. In the legal negotiations that followed, Polanski never denied the charges, but they were dismissed under the terms of the plea bargain by which he pleaded guilty to unlawful sex with a minor. With a view to proper sentencing, the judge – Laurence Rittenband – ordered that Polanski be confined for psychiatric examination. That led to 42 days' confinement in the Chino State Prison over the 1977-8 period. In that examination Polanski was passed as fit to stand trial. It was the director's understanding that the 42 days in Chino would satisfy punitive instincts. There might be a fine, too, but he would be freed. Then, just before sentencing, Polanski heard that Rittenband was ready to break the agreement – because he feared public criticism of a verdict that seemed too lenient on Polanski. And so, fearing further imprisonment, Polanski broke bail and flew by British Airways to London in February 1978. He has never been back in the US.

A lot has happened in the three decades since. Judge Rittenband died. Polanski settled in Paris and made a number of films, including The Pianist, which received Oscars for actor, director and best adapted screenplay in Los Angeles. In his absence, on that occasion, Polanski received a standing ovation – and what did the movie community think it meant by that? The 13-year-old girl has since passed into adulthood and let it be known that she believed no further action should be taken against Polanski. And a good deal of information has come to light about the workings of Judge Rittenband's mind.

But all the rumours of a legal settlement that would allow Polanski to return to America and to work in Los Angeles have come to nothing. The original guilty plea has still to be sentenced. In addition, Polanski has broken bail. And now Zurich, and Switzerland, have set the game in motion again by remembering that as a civilized nation Switzerland has its part to play in the
cause of law and order. Next thing we know, the Swiss will be divulging secret bank accounts.

Of course, the charges were deadly serious and they are not much in dispute. Nor is it up to the girl to decide the matter. Yes, there are people who say "poor" Roman Polanski. They remember the loss of his mother in Auschwitz; his own childhood, hunted by the police. They recall the night in 1969 when the Manson gang descended on a house on Cielo Drive in the Hollywood hills and slaughtered Polanski's wife, Sharon Tate, the child she was carrying and several others. By a weird coincidence, Susan Atkins, one of the Manson gang and someone who admitted knifing everyone in sight that night, died in prison only last week. It was said that Atkins had turned to God and good work, but she was never paroled just as Manson won't be if he lives to be 300.

You can argue that it's a very silly case, only possible in LA and with a judge who couldn't make up his mind. But any other judge is going to have to gauge where public opinion stands. Do people know who Polanski is? Do they remember the case? Should they care? What is the message passed to the public if Polanski is fined for the bail infraction while the original case is settled?

Polanski is 76. He has a wife in Paris now (the actress Emmanuelle Seigner) and they have two children. This is a case that the parents of children should decide.

[bigP]

Really Polanski must have lead a very sad life with what happened to Sharon and the entire rape case. I don't know if its really excusable with what he did but I do feel a lot of sympathy towards him. I hope this is resolved quickly.

Not to mention his awful experience during the second world war, living as a fugitive, surviving with the help of kind families allowing him to sleep in their barns etc whilst his family were held in the Krakow ghetto, and subsequently shipped to concentration camps; his mother dying in Auschwitz.

Would people be so willing to defend him if he was a plumber, or a mechanic? How about if he were a bad film director..?

I think the reason he has received support over this crime is that this incident is part of a history that is as well documented as his name against his films. Does that excuse what he did? No, and i'm sure his ardent supporters would not say he was innocent, but, do we have to consider mental state? I think yes, certainly. That is not to mention the well documented theories behind the entire incident (such as the possible involvement of the mother's guiding hand, the evidence that the girl was not a virgin, the evidence that proved she had lied about the sodomy charge, the possible accusation that it was she who provided the drugs and was possibly intent on the incident happening, or the little less reliable statement by Nicholson that Anjelica Huston knows the whole story but was threatened that certain aspects of her life would be exposed if she talked...pinch of salt on that one).

All in all, i'm just trying to point out my concept behind his large sector of public support.

The McCarthyist attitude toward crimes of underage sex (rape or consensual) really bugs me. Yes it's a horrific crime, but it is not as black and white as many seem to treat it. Watching Divorce Iranian Style, I found myself to be absolutely disgusted that the age of marriage (and I guess I would be right to assume, sex) varies purely based on the age a girl hits puberty, which, as the judge points out, this can be as young as 9 years old. I found this to be pretty heart breaking, given the treatment and standard of living many of these girls can look forward to. I would sincerely feel happy if the common people so vocal against any of the highly publicised (and of course what is the media motivation behind extensive publicity of paedophillia???) underaged sex exposure cared enough to be as vocal against places such acts are absolutely common place, but unfortunately, all we have in the western society is pandering to the media cattle market and hanging nooses in every side street.

I don't personally have an opinion on the case. I think he is a man who has experienced life in a way that I and many couldn't imagine. He is a man who has inspired (both as a human and a film maker) many, and he is a man who showed his humanity by making a grave error of judgment - and as Mrs Geimer points out, is a man who has not faced a remotely similar accusation since, one which would seem to rule out Polanski being a serial predator, and would more likely signify that the incident fell into a crime commited out of psychological trauma or unconscious desire that came to the forefront through the intake of drugs and alcohol. But this is merely speculation, and in this regard (and in regard for the fact that saying he did it with full intent and conscious knowledge is also speculation), I say again that I have no opinion worthy of judgement.

[HerrSchreck]

Cinephrenic, the guy did what he did and he knew what he was doing when he did it. Although I find it odd that the case is being pursued so aggressively now, there's no question that the guy forced himself-- at forty two years old-- onto a 13 year old. This is the kids account after it happened:

The teenager's troubling--and contemporaneous--account of her abuse at Polanski's hands begins with her posing twice for topless photos that the director said were for French Vogue. The girl then told prosecutors how Polanski directed her to, "Take off your underwear" and enter the Jacuzzi, where he photographed her naked. Soon, the director, who was then 43, joined her in the hot tub. He also wasn't wearing any clothes and, according to Gailey's testimony, wrapped his hands around the child's waist.

The girl testified that she left the Jacuzzi and entered a bedroom in Nicholson's home, where Polanski sat down beside her and kissed the teen, despite her demands that he "keep away." According to Gailey, Polanski then performed a sex act on her and later "started to have intercourse with me." At one point, according to Gailey's testimony, Polanski asked the 13-year-old if she was "on the pill," and "When did you last have your period?" Polanski then asked her, Gailey recalled, "Would you want me to go in through your back?" before he "put his penis in my butt." Asked why she did not more forcefully resist Polanski, the teenager told Deputy D.A. Roger Gunson, "Because I was afraid of him."

Following his indictment on various sex charges, Polanski agreed to a plea deal that spared him prison time (he had spent about 45 days in jail during a court-ordered psychiatric evaluation). But when it seemed that a Superior Court judge might not honor the deal--and sentence Polanski to prison--the director fled the country.

You can read the actual Grand Jury testimony, from The Smoking Gun linked here.

As for her supposedly looking like an adult, this is her then and now:

[Ted Todorov]

Would people be so willing to defend him if he was a plumber, or a mechanic?

If he was a plumber or a mechanic the judge wouldn't have broken the law to get the agreed upon plea bargain tossed. Also, I have a feeling that statutory rape is a lot less likely to be pursued in the case of lower socioeconomic class victim/perp unless a child is born as a result, and even then.

Why doesn't someone look up statistics on how many girls had babies when they were age < 14 years 8 months, and how many of them resulted in statutory rape prosecutions. Good. Now tell me again your plumber fairy tale.

[Ted Todorov]

As for her supposedly looking like an adult, this is her then

If she had look like an adult then Polanski wouldn't have been interested. His next girlfriend (Nastassja Kinski) was also underage when he started having a relationship with her. And how old was his wife to be? At the time, at least, Polanski was not interested in anyone resembling a grown woman.

[bigP]

His next girlfriend (Nastassja Kinski) was also underage when he started having a relationship with her.

Not that i'm defending him in any way, but as a technicality, the lawful age of sexual consent in France is 15, which was Kinski's age at the time.

[Ted Todorov]

His next girlfriend (Nastassja Kinski) was also underage when he started having a relationship with her.

Not that i'm defending him in any way, but as a technicality, the lawful age of sexual consent in France is 15, which was Kinski's age at the time.

I'm not talking about law breaking, I'm talking about the argument that he thought that Samantha looked like an adult -- he wouldn't have touched her if she did.

[bigP]

His next girlfriend (Nastassja Kinski) was also underage when he started having a relationship with her.

Not that i'm defending him in any way, but as a technicality, the lawful age of sexual consent in France is 15, which was Kinski's age at the time.

I'm not talking about law breaking, I'm talking about the argument that he thought that Samantha looked like an adult.

My bad, I thought you used the word 'Underage' the way it sounded.

he wouldn't have touched her if she did.

He certainly likes to associate himself with younger women, but, Emmanuel Seigner was certainly an adult when he met her. To say he wouldn't have touched anyone not resembling an adult is pretty blind when you have two examples, forgetting his three marriages and countless unknown relationships and / or sexual encounters.

[jt]

Why doesn't someone look up statistics on how many girls had babies when they were age < 14 years 8 months, and how many of them resulted in statutory rape prosecutions. Good. Now tell me again your plumber fairy tale.

Are you on drugs?!?
The number of teen pregnancies where the man admits to raping the girl, I'd guess 99% of the guys are in prison.
They weren't loves young dream, torn apart by the heartless government's draconian age of consent laws, they were a predatory 43 year old who drugged a 13 year old girl against her wishes.

If you think for one second that some regular Joe Schmoe without access to a high-price lawyer admits to a crime like this and gets sent to an unsecure phsychiatric evaluation clinic, then allowed to wander around free before his sentencing and allowed to skip the country, you are out of your mind.
If you or I admited to what he did, there would be no plea-bargaining, no affordable bail and clinic treatment, we'd be behind bars before our feet hit the ground. End of story.

Yes he's had a very troubled life, yes he has made some wonderful movies and yes the crime itself may have been badly dealt with by the courts but he is a self-confessed paedophile rapist who has served not a day in prison for what he did.

I assume that everyone here defending him would defend said plumber if he forced himself on your 13 year old sister or daughter. "Oh, but my daughter has been sexually active already, she was probably asking for it. Yes, he gave her rohypnol but she's tried pot in the past so probably asked him for it. Oh and I hear his parents died tragically when he was young. And he's done some lovely plumbing work that has improved the lives af all those he has worked for. His 40 days in the hospital evaluation centre are punishment enough, let him free with my blessings..."

Fucking hypocrites...

[aox]

I thought he served 42 days?

[bigP]

I thought he served 42 days?

I thought this was part of his plea bargain, 'Time Served'.

I assume that everyone here defending him would defend said plumber if he forced himself on your 13 year old sister or daughter."

Of course not, and neither would I defend Polanski, however, i feel everyone deserves a trial more inciteful than layman accusation. If it were proven that the plumber was imbalanced and in need of psychiatric care then they should be sentanced in a manner befitting. Screams of "Monster, Monster" is too James Whale for my liking, and coming from a background of knowing a victim of such acts, I can vouch that in some cases, a monster has an incredible complexity; background and all.

I'm feeling the plumbers of the world are getting a bad rep at the moment.

[HerrSchreck]

I thought he served 42 days?

Pretrial detention in a city jail or federal detention center during processing and proceedings and various hearings-- even detention during trial if bail is revoked or set beyond the defendant's means-- can sometimes be considered "time served" but oftentimes not included in post-conviction sentencing. When you serve time you are sent to Prison. Jail is where the police put you after arrest. It doesn't mean you have been convicted of anything.

In other words, if you commit a minor offense in NYC-- say fare evasion on the subway, buying a small bag of weed, etc-- you'll probably be taken to a local precinct for arrest processing... then to Central Booking downtown, whereby you'll be deposited next door to The Tombs, which is the city jail you languish in for hours, sometimes days (you can be held up to 72 hours), before your turn comes up in court. Then you see the judge, will be ROR'd (release on your own recognizance) after being sentenced to a fine or community service or whatever if you cop a plea... or be given a court date if you fight it. If you cop a plea to squash the case and walk away from the situation, I doubt you'd claim to anyone that you served time in prison, based on your waiting 24-72 hrs for your turn to go to court.

That's the different between Prison "Time", and waiting around in jail. One is just waiting for the cogs of processing, the other is your restitution to the entity of state or federal govt.

[Ted Todorov]

Why doesn't someone look up statistics on how many girls had babies when they were age < 14 years 8 months, and how many of them resulted in statutory rape prosecutions. Good. Now tell me again your plumber fairy tale.

Are you on drugs?!?
The number of teen pregnancies where the man admits to raping the girl, I'd guess 99% of the guys are in prison.

Well you would guess WRONG, jackass. Clearly you know nothing about the topic and yet you are attacking me. There were actually a bunch of news stories on the subject in the last couple of years and the answer is close to 0% are in prison. Admitting to fatherhood == admitting to statutory rape. And yet basically none of these fathers are in jail.

And why are you attacking me as if I'm defending Polanski? I'm not in any way. He is guilty of statutory rape with a 13 year old. I'm also arguing that the "she looked older" defense is complete bullshit.

[puxzkkx]

Creating a great work of art doesn't 'redeem' a person of a despicable act such as this.

True, but it's not like he raped a 8 year old. The bitch knew what she was up to and Polanski made some irresponsible choices as an adult. They chasing him like a international fugitive on the run for murder. Give me a break..

She was drugged! I'm kind of disturbed by how flippant your attitude is regarding this. Oh, right, if there's grass on the field, no big deal... gimme a break!

[oldsheperd]

Does this mean no Chinatown bluray?

[jt]

Why doesn't someone look up statistics on how many girls had babies when they were age < 14 years 8 months, and how many of them resulted in statutory rape prosecutions. Good. Now tell me again your plumber fairy tale.

Are you on drugs?!?
The number of teen pregnancies where the man admits to raping the girl, I'd guess 99% of the guys are in prison.

Well you would guess WRONG, jackass. Clearly you know nothing about the topic and yet you are attacking me. There were actually a bunch of news stories on the subject in the last couple of years and the answer is close to 0% are in prison. Admitting to fatherhood == admitting to statutory rape. And yet basically none of these fathers are in jail.

And why are you attacking me as if I'm defending Polanski? I'm not in any way. He is guilty of statutory rape with a 13 year old. I'm also arguing that the "she looked older" defense is complete bullshit.

Do you have a problem reading english? Go over my posts again. Of course most young kids who impregnate their young girlfriend don't end up in prison. What do teenage relationships have in common with this case? I'm referring to men who admit to forcing themselves on underage girls WITHOUT THEIR CONSENT.
Polanski didn't just statutorily rape the girl (ie, consensual sex with an underage person) he raped her against her wishes.
You find me an example of a 40 year old guy (or 30 or 50 or whatever) who raped a 13 year old without their consent who didn't get sentenced to jail time and I'll give you a million dollars.

My plumber 'fairy tale' is an analogy for the fact that if Polanski was exactly the same person but had a talent for plumbing or spreadsheets or any other mundane job, not a single person would be upset that he had finally been caught.

If he was a plumber or a mechanic the judge wouldn't have broken the law to get the agreed upon plea bargain tossed

Yeah, because the non-rich and non-famous regularly get offered plea bargains in the first place in cases like this...

[puxzkkx]

Not completely on-topic, but I hope Emmanuelle Seigner uses this opportunity to channel the resultant grief from this situation into a performance that's actually good. I'm beginning to give up hope that she'll ever be as good as she was in Backstage.

[bigP]

You find me an example of a 40 year old guy (or 30 or 50 or whatever) who raped a 13 year old without their consent who didn't get sentenced to jail time and I'll give you a million dollars.

By some people's logic, Michael Jackson.

However, i know very well that Jackson did not confess to the crime so it's moot, though he was no less vilified over the possiblility that he did abuse the boy against his consent, and guilty until proven innocent by a large number. Martyr'd now though.

[jt]

Not a bad example. I wonder if he admitted 'making love' to one of the 13 year old boys and the boy even said he had consented, would Polanski's defenders do the same for Jacko?
After all, he was a gifted artist with a troubled childhood...

[Caged Horse]

Can we arrange for The Butterfly Effect to be the in-flight movie during Polanski's return to the USA? I think you can all guess which particular scene is in my mind.

(Only joking -- I wouldn't wish that hysterically OTT, emo wank-fantasy even on Timothy McVeigh or Osama bin Laden!)

How about The Shawshank Redemption then?