Criterion Blu-ray

[Ben Cheshire]

aox, that 35mm thing was clearly a joke, come on...

[aox]

aox, that 35mm thing was clearly a joke, come on...

I realize that. It's this mob mentality towards a film lover, that just wants the best possible print to enjoy, that is not a joke.

[knives]

agreed. this is a rental. Sucks, b/c this would be a no-brainer 'blind buy'. (I have seen Rome: Open City out of the 3.)

It's like the Human Condition all over again.

Did you want this to ever be released? Considering the trouble they had getting the transfer ready for the SD the massive work for a Blu would've delayed the release at least another year, plus they might not have rights to some of these in Blu.

I wasn't complaining about the release in terms of the release itself. It's just that some of us want to move forward. I said explicitly I plan to rent them, which is completely acceptable in the industry and the western world. I can't wait to view them. My apologies to the conservative guard. Magna Carta->Constitution..... I suppose.

Even assuming they completely ditched SD transfers for this release, ensuring at the same time they do never get their investment back, they have already stated that the difficulties of Blu prevent them from doing many films at once. This means that to even get a decent transfer ready for Blu would take many years for these three films. They may eventually get to Blu, but not it isn't possible for a hundred reasons already discussed on this board and if you are too dogmatic to understand this could you at least not complain about it?

[aox]

Even assuming they completely ditched SD transfers for this release, ensuring at the same time they do never get their investment back, they have already stated that the difficulties of Blu prevent them from doing many films at once. This means that to even get a decent transfer ready for Blu would take many years for these three films. They may eventually get to Blu, but not it isn't possible for a hundred reasons already discussed on this board and if you are too dogmatic to understand this could you at least not complain about it?

Lot's of assumptions here; moreover, unfair ones at least. I have talked to Criterion myself about this and have gotten this same reasonable response. I am thankful for doing what they can. I already said three times, "I will rent these". Which is acceptable to contribution. I am excited that these are going to see the light of day.. I really am. I am lamenting that this doesn't mean Blu. Yes, it is better than VHS, and yes, we should be thankful in 2009 we have access to these films (I can't imagine what it was like growing up in middle American in the 70s, 80s, and even the 90s....)

I love Criterion (and MOC, etc...) with all of my heart. But, it just doesn't make sense to buy an inferior product. There are plenty of VHS's I also don't purchase.

They may eventually get to Blu

Which is when I will shell out even $100 (more then they are asking) for this set.

I'm not here trolling or trying to be an asshole.

[domino harvey]

Aox, you're one step away from a board-wide intervention. We get it, you love Blu-rays. But it's like a relationship: If you're with a girl and you're telling her every five minutes how much you love her and how great she is, that's going to get pretty old and clingy right-quick. Just cool it a bit, y'know

[aox]

Aox, you're one step away from a board-wide intervention. We get it, you love Blu-rays. Just cool it, y'know

and you seem to love DVDs. We get it. And, I am not trying to hold you back from the old ways...I respect you and your money. Purchase what you want....or don't (as I plan to "don't"). It's that some of us are ready to move forward.

I expected resistance on imdb, but not here. The most important part of film is the visual, so it is funny to me that people (who claim to be into film) are even causing an issue here. Why did you even advocate the switch from VHS to DVD?

[Perkins Cobb]

Well, I guess I'm not getting odds on aox as the next Forum Flameout anyway, so go ahead, talk him down.

[Tribe]

I can't imagine what it was like growing up in middle American in the 70s, 80s, and even the 90s....

You don't know the half of it. There has been no better time to be a movie fan than now...back in the day, one could only dream of seeing most of these films., much less owning a copy.

[aox]

Aox, you're one step away from a board-wide intervention. We get it, you love Blu-rays. But it's like a relationship: If you're with a girl and you're telling her every five minutes how much you love her and how great she is, that's going to get pretty old and clingy right-quick. Just cool it a bit, y'know

how about the girl I am really into that is better than the girl was into? Should we talk in terms of Antonioni or Lean here?

[domino harvey]

Aox, you're one step away from a board-wide intervention. We get it, you love Blu-rays. But it's like a relationship: If you're with a girl and you're telling her every five minutes how much you love her and how great she is, that's going to get pretty old and clingy right-quick. Just cool it a bit, y'know

how about the girl I am really into that is better than the girl was into? Should we talk in terms of Antonioni or Lean here?

I guess metaphors need a Blu-ray release before you get them?

[Dadapass]

oh no

[aox]

Aox, you're one step away from a board-wide intervention. We get it, you love Blu-rays. But it's like a relationship: If you're with a girl and you're telling her every five minutes how much you love her and how great she is, that's going to get pretty old and clingy right-quick. Just cool it a bit, y'know

how about the girl I am really into that is better than the girl was into? Should we talk in terms of Antonioni or Lean here?

I guess metaphors need a Blu-ray release before you get them?

no, just quality... or at the very least, principle.

[Flike]

Why don't you guys just support this project now, and then upgrade when the BD(s) arrive in 2017?

[Murdoch]

I'm confused, which girl is into Lean, the BD girl or the DVD girl?

[aox]

I'm confused, which girl is into Lean, the BD girl or the DVD girl?

the point is that they aren't going to have a threesome.

[movielocke]

Even assuming they completely ditched SD transfers for this release, ensuring at the same time they do never get their investment back, they have already stated that the difficulties of Blu prevent them from doing many films at once. This means that to even get a decent transfer ready for Blu would take many years for these three films. They may eventually get to Blu, but not it isn't possible for a hundred reasons already discussed on this board and if you are too dogmatic to understand this could you at least not complain about it?

The difficulty is in check disc (QC) process and encoding issues with bluray. Criterion has hidef transfers of the original elements on SR tapes, those are used for the DVD and for the bluray, they've been doing telecines to HD stock (uncorrected masters) for years now (though some of their early HD telecines may be only 1080i, which was the reason WB has to redo Singin in the Rain before bluray, they only telecined at 1080i last time around). In all likelyhood, Criterion also restore/cleanup in HD all their releases for the past year or two, and lay that restoration to SR tape. The final restored Color Timed Master SR tape would be the source used for both Bluray and DVD transfer. the source is the same, they don't have to retelecine the Rosselini for bluray, so there's no 'many years' issue. It's encoding and check discs that hold them up, and bluray is still a young format and quite finicky in encoding and a pain in the ass to ready for release.

[fiddlesticks]

Let's try a MadLib here, just for fun:

____(A)_____ frustrated with ____(B)_____ because, although they are releasing long-awaited and in some cases criminally neglected titles, they are willfully ignoring the best possible format by releasing stuff ___(C)____. ____(D)____ ____(B)____ very probably won't release these titles in the "preferred" format anytime soon for financial reasons, most everyone else in the Forum ____(E)____.

(A) aox is; a lot of the respected regulars are
(B) Criterion; Warner
(C) on DVD but not Blu-ray; on DVD-R in the "Warner Archive"
(D) Because; Although
(E) thinks aox needs to chill; agrees wholeheartedly.

:-k

[Jeff]

I get your point, Fiddlesticks, but there really is a substantial difference between:

A.) complaining that a multi-billion dollar global media giant won't release its films on the standard format found in over 90% of American homes, electing instead to release them on featureless, un-restored, burned DVRs, and

B.) complaining that a private small business will not release the lavish, meticulously restored, and copiously supplemented three-disc box set that they likely already produced at a substantial financial loss in a niche format found in 8% of American homes

[Brian C]

I'm with aox here. Blu-ray is sublime, and I wonder if "I'll buy the DVD since the Blu-ray is probably years away" isn't to some extent a self-fulfilling prophecy.

At any rate, I couldn't be happier that Criterion is supporting Blu, but truth be told they're still a little behind the times. And this is nothing new for them. They were notoriously slow to adopt 16x9 enhancement back in the day and were still putting out crappy old laserdisc transfers long after (most of) the studios realized that wouldn't fly, and the whole pictureboxing thing was a bad joke from the day they arbitrarily decided to start doing that. At some point, they'll get up to speed on Blu - I know they're doing what they can now - and this debate will be long forgotten. But in the meantime, I'm not going to spend money on DVDs when there are more Blu titles out there already than I can possibly afford.

[fdm]

niche format found in 8% of American homes

BD market share is currently around 10%.

[Brian C]

BD market share is currently around 10%.

Maybe even higher than that ... seems I've recently seen 14% being thrown around, although a quick Google search failed to yield up-to-date numbers.

[swo17]

aox, I believe you like the film Stalker, yes? Say hypothetically that Criterion were to put this out in a lavish set (including the miraculously recovered original version) but that, given the cost of doing this, they were only able to offer the set in SD. Are you seriously telling us that you would not buy this, but would instead wait for some magical Blu-ray release date that might not ever even happen?

I mean, I'm all for having everything presented in the best possible way, but, as I believe you've had success with in the past, if/when these films do eventually get upgraded to Blu-ray, you can often sell the SD version for as much or even more than the cost of a Blu-ray. So why deprive yourself of a great quality DVD of a film that you love for who knows how many years, just because it could look maybe 10% better on Blu-ray?

[Jun-Dai]

Well, despite the 'tude, I'm sort of with aox. I don't buy many titles these days; mostly I rent, which is exactly what I'll most likely do with the War Trilogy. Were it on Blu-ray, however, I would most likely pick it up.

This has nothing to do with my respect for Criterion. I understand getting titles out on Blu-ray is time-consuming and expensive and that they have to weigh all kinds of things when making decisions about it. It's just that on the other end of the producer-consumer relationship I'm making a similar decision about priorities, and I don't see myself taking up valuable shelf space for the standard DVDs when I can rent them and re-rent them. For context, I've gotten rid of all but a couple dozen titles, and I'd like to keep it around that number.

This isn't so much a rule as just a factor in my decision-making. I picked up the Painlevé set because those films are particularly well-suited to pulling out and watching casually, as opposed to knowing ahead of time that I'll want to watch them. Top-notch children's films I'm more inclined to pick up on DVD as I'm more inclined to bring those with me when I go to people's houses.

[MadMaxChilde]

Couldn't find the right place to post a suggestion for future releases, so I'll set one up here for now. As far as I know, beDevil is only available on DVD in Oz via Ronin films, who also have all of Tracey's short works on DVD, but in that obliging educational format style. I just recently rewatched an old copy I recorded off SBS, with David Stratton introducing it as the most original movie ever made in Australia! So naturally
I'm wondering where the SE is? I luv me local cinema, and even though this film takes afew sittings to settle with you; and it's definetley one I feel compelled to watch almost once a month, I understand it might be a hard sell for any company. But if you consider it as a total package, with Tracey's international profile/work as a visual artist, it seems to me an almost irresistible propostion. She's basically the artist whom people like Tarsem or Floria Sigismondi have modelled themselves on, to some extent.

So, you could have something like:
DISC 1
Restored Feature with Audio Commentaries
DISC 2
Short Films, Making of...beDevil
Documentary "Up in the Sky: Tracey Moffatt in New York"
(seen it, it's good)
DISC 3
Soundtrack(it's been released before, should be easy)
bonus materials:
Softcover book with a selection of Tracey's artwork/essays.
Here's a good essay to put in it.

And the whole thing could be packaged with Tracey's photographic style in mind.

You could make allusions to the fact that this was her attempt at a Kwaidan style of movie. And it's also the first film directed by an Indigineous Australian woman.
A Guillermo Del Toro commentary might be taking things to far off into the patronising, twee section, though :-"

Here's a good overview.

[Ben Cheshire]

I think both points of view are valid. I think I wish everything could be released in blu, but I'm also quite impressed often by the quality of SD releases put out by people like Criterion and MoC, and if that's what they need to do to release 9-hour box-sets these days, I'll be buying every one of them; then later, if Rome Open City is my only favourite of the three, I might buy a BD of that... Who knows.