Criterion Blu-ray

[nsps]

Great to hear! So I'm guessing they'll only be using 24p sources. Interesting that no matter what they've been doing additional restoration work. Well now I'm even more excited for the release.

[movielocke]

Great to hear! So I'm guessing they'll only be using 24p sources. Interesting that no matter what they've been doing additional restoration work. Well now I'm even more excited for the release.

That's because digital restoration tended to be done in the standard definition realm--even though the source and uncorrected master tape was hidef--until a few years ago. A big reason they even made hidef telecines was because by oversampling (scanning in HD) and then downconverting (to SD) they got a better quality SD master image to work with than by scanning in SD to begin with. In terms of using 24p sources, most all sound film prints (except maybe Berlin Alexanderplatz, or Todd AO for example) are 24 fps sources. In terms of stock HDCAM has the ability to do both 24p and 23.976 frame rates since about 2003 or 2005 and many telecines made then to HDCAM stock would likely have been at 24, and HDCAMSR has had 24 and 23.976 (and the 25 variants) available natively since it was introduced. I would venture that all telecines performed to master stock today are at the native FPS and the 2:3 pulldown to 29.97/59.94 is preferred to be performed on the outgoing signal rather than be present on the original tape.

[daniel p]

If the current Criterion Blu's were ranked for PQ, which would be the better ones?

I am interested in the following in particular:

The 400 Blows
The Seventh Seal
Playtime
Kagemusha
The Last Emperor
Chungking Express
Last Year at Marienbad
Repulsion
Wings of Desire

My reason for asking is, I am limited with my budget, and have not embarked on Criterion Blu-Rays yet. I want to begin with some of the better looking discs before I go out and buy them all.

Which are the better ones for PQ?

[Ben Cheshire]

If the current Criterion Blu's were ranked for PQ, which would be the better ones?

Never heard that before...

Try checking this site's own "scores," and review sites like High Def Digest for a good general idea.

[daniel p]

I had viewed the forum's reviews, and also various review websites and find them all conflicting - that is why I am still unsure. For example, on this forum 400 Blows is given 9.8/10 for PQ - on the AVS forum PQ tier thread, it is under Tier 4 - which is their second worst tier, out of 5. I understand it is subjective, and AVS compare to all titles - but I still thought it may have been higher ranked than that...

I have 7 out of those 9 I listed on DVD already, and I only want to begin with Blu-Rays that offer a significant upgrade to those DVDs.

I live in Australia where I cannot take advantage of the upgrade program for the 5 own on Criterion DVD.

[Ben Cheshire]

Fair enough. Tried DVDBeaver? Screencaps are often good for a general idea of the upgrade the release offers. Problem with a PQ tier for Criterion BDs, is apart from two, they're virtually all praised unanimously as being great. Here's a summary of my research:

1) The Last Emperor is the only BD that has caused an uproar; all the others are said to have stellar PQ. Its colours and AR changed significantly from DVD to BD, causing much vitriol on this board and others.

2) Chungking Express is said to be a great upgrade, but because of the way its director shoots, has a softer appearance, and thus has been seen by some as disappointing, but only those who weren't familiar with the film's look.

3) Last Year at Marienbad is identical to the Studio Canal release, except for its packaging, and appears to have been licensed from Criterion for Region B territories. This title, therefore is available from JBHifis locally cheaper than importing. But its embossed packaging is regarded as one of the only really nice uses of the digipack.

4) Re: Digipacks, here is Brandon Conway/Capt Veg from Home Theatre Forum with a useful list:

Cardboard cases:

The 400 Blows
The Third Man
The Man Who Fell to Earth
The Last Emperor
Bottle Rocket
Chungking Express
El Norte
The Last Metro
Last Year at Marienbad

Regular Blu-ray packaging:

The Curious Case of Benjamin Button

Newer clear case:

The Seventh Seal
The Wages of Fear
For All Mankind
Playtime
The Complete Monterey Pop Festival (2 cases)
Kagemusha
Pierrot le fou
In the Realm of the Senses
Repulsion

All releases going forward will presumably be with the new clear cases.

[daniel p]

Ok thanks, that helps me out

I guess I would like to double dip on all of the 'worthy' ones as they become available, 8 1/2 will be next, so I just want to iron out the not quite perfect ones.

Yeah, I look at dvdbeaver everyday, and have read the reviews there - I often find screencaps a good indicator, but sometimes misleading compared to the film in motion.

Cheers

[Jeff]

All the Criterion Blus are about as good as they can be, given the source materials. Grainophobe sites that mainly review new, mainstream films with pristine modern elements aren't likely to be impressed by something like 400 Blows, but you won't find another disc where that film looks better. A couple of transfers that I have found particularly stunning are Repulsion and Wings of Desire. They're certainly not a bad place to start.

[Ben Cheshire]

I often find screencaps a good indicator, but sometimes misleading compared to the film in motion.

It has its detractors, but I love Beaver because its always my first glimpse of a film's PQ, better than a screencap thread, if you're worried about wasting downloads.

[daniel p]

I think I might start with Seventh Seal, Repulsion and Wings of Desire actually... 2 double dips, one new but they seem like worthy dips!

Yes, I always check through reviews at beaver, and I have discovered so many films I otherwise might have never seen thanks to their reviews. I am not a big fan of review sites that are predominantly takes on the film - whereas beaver focuses on disc quality, which is all I am interested in really. I have even tried saving the screencaps and viewing thrm streamed through my PS3 onto my plasma, because my PC monitor and my plasma differ so much.

[daniel p]

Thanks David!

Yes, I have held off double dipping Playtime from the Criterion 2-disc set, only for the fact it was not sourced from the 70mm. I own Baraka on Blu-Ray, and it is a marvel for PQ.

The first 3 you mention interest me the most, and the only thing holding me back on the 400 Blows is the Doinel suitcase sitting on my shelf - I don't want to sell the box, but I really am already spending so much (of my limited) moolah on Blu-Rays, so I have to be methodical. I think it would look fantastic in HD though, I will have to purchase it one day...

The Last Metro looks fantastic from the beaver screencaps, as does El Norte - but am less interested in them both.

I cannot wait for 8 1/2 - out of the entire collection I think it is probably in my top 5 most anticipated for the format. I will not hesitate on that one.

In saying all of this, my Panasonic BD80 is still no region free'd yet :S but it should be as soon as I get my tax return

[Jun-Dai]

I actually wasn't overly impressed with the Baraka Blu. If that scores well in your book, then all the CCs (I've seen) should be completely impeccable.

I had zero complaints about:
Chunking Express
The Third Man
The Last Metro
For All Mankind

all are stellar. I'm a little concerned about Playtime, but EE or no EE, 70mm or 35mm, the extra detail is most likely welcome for that film above all others.

[aox]

I'm a little concerned about Playtime, but EE or no EE, 70mm or 35mm, the extra detail is most likely welcome for that film above all others.

I concur. I am happy with mine.

[Jun-Dai]

I love the problems we have on this forum. I imagine a fair amount of the world would love to have problems like whether to "double-dip" on home video releases.

[perkizitore]

The UK Marienbad is still expensive, so even people in the UK should consider getting the Criterion blu-ray from B&N sale.

[daniel p]

I actually wasn't overly impressed with the Baraka Blu. If that scores well in your book, then all the CCs (I've seen) should be completely impeccable.

What were you not impressed with about Baraka's transfer?

I thought it was outstanding - especially for a 17 year old film. I found the A/V mesmerizing, and one of the best in my 150+ BRD collection.

[zedz]

I thought it was outstanding - especially for a 17 year old film.

Satire, right? I mean, you're not actually writing that with a straight face, I hope.

[daniel p]

Ok, I have nfi what you mean, or I don't 'get' your sarcasm bec I thought it looked great.

http://www.dvdbeaver.com/film2/DVDRevie ... lu-ray.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Are we discussing the same release?

If not, then my apologies for not agreeing with you guys.........

[zedz]

So I guess that rules out the satire theory.

I have never seen the BluRay of Baraka and I doubt I ever will, so you're right when you say you have nfi what I mean!

[Matango]

If you only had ten minutes to impress your friends/family with the PQ of Blu-ray, then Baraka would probably be a better choice than anything by Criterion (anything I have seen, anyway).

[daniel p]

I have certainly wowed my parents and friends with Baraka, which piqued their interest in the format.

@zedz - Fair enough, I didn't notice you stripped the context from my quote initially, I took your comments as literal regarding the A/V #-o

[fiddlesticks]

If you only had ten minutes to impress your friends/family with the PQ of Blu-ray, then Baraka would probably be a better choice than anything by Criterion (anything I have seen, anyway).

Why not use Criterion's Blu-Ray of For All Mankind? It reportedly has a pristine image, and unbelievably is even older than Baraka, dating all the way back to 1989! I mean, that's even before we put a man on the moon! :-"

[Jun-Dai]

Hmm, I recall it looking good, but exhibiting some noticeable artifacting and EE in more than a few spots. The DVDBeaver/blu-ray.com caps don't really bear this out, so perhaps it was my imagination or my faulty memory.

On the other hand, I'd never seen the film before, so I could be confusing my disappointment in the film with my disappointment in the image quality. Not that it wasn't a good film, just that my expectations were unreasonably high.

I should try watching it again.

[Perkins Cobb]

What the hell is "nfi"? Is that an acronym for something? I have no fucking idea what these kids are talking about these days.

[Michael Kerpan]

What the hell is "nfi"? Is that an acronym for something? I have no fucking idea what these kids are talking about these days.

nfi == "no f***ing idea"

re-edited to change addition:

;~{