502 Revanche

[tajmahal]

The broken subtitles are intentional. One of the characters, the girlfriend, is foreign and I assume doesn't speak German well so they use subtitles in broken English to relay that effect.

OK, thank you. I am ten minutes in and this is driving me crazy. Came to the thread to check if Criterion severely botched this. Glad to know this is intentional.

Whole conversations were missing, and then much of the dialogue is in broken English... I couldn't wrap my brain around it, but what you say makes sense. Thanks

Interesting. This played on Australian tv a few weeks ago. I can't say I remember unsubtitled dialogue, but perhaps I wasn't paying attention. It would have had to be in the first third of the film. Thinking about it, I recall the girl telling her parents she loved them at the end of a phone call, but I can't recall if all of her dialogue was subbed.

[jbeall]

I can't speak for the Australian broadcast, but on the Criterion release, there are no subs when Tamara is speaking Ukrainian. When she speaks German, the subs are broken, reflecting her imperfect command of the language.

[aox]

wow. What a great film that started off in the most mediocre fashion. I agree that once the bank robbery happens and they get to the country, the film really decides to stand out. It becomes something complete different.

The cinematography is curious to me. The pastoral wide shots (and even the opening scene with him cutting grass) are fantastically vibrant but somehow muted at the same time. A very interesting effect.

[Nothing]

a great film that started off in the most mediocre fashion.

Except there's no such thing, if a film is well directed (which it must be, to be great). What you mean, I believe, is that the narrative became more interesting to you as the film went on.

[aox]

not really. The narrative was fine from the beginning. Besides cinematography, I just didn't think there was anything special in how it was presented.

[Brian C]

not really. The narrative was fine from the beginning. Besides cinematography, I just didn't think there was anything special in how it was presented.

I can agree with that. The first section of the film does have a very familiar feel to it that's broken very suddenly with the bank robbery. I could say that it emphasized the dreary routine that the characters were trapped in but honestly I think it was just a bit clumsy in terms of setup.

[ianungstad]

While the plots share little similarity, thematically Revanche reminded me quite a bit of the film The House of Sand and Fog. Anyone else get that vibe?

Revanche is definitely one of the better contemporary films in the collection.

[willoneill]

Watched this last night, and I had this theory, wanted to see if anyone else had the same idea:

Spoiler

Near the end, when the cop and the bank robber are talking by the pond, the cop knows (or at least suspects) the the other guy is the bank robber.

Agree/disagree?

[jbeall]

I think there's justification to read it either way.

[NilbogSavant]

I didn't think it was even disputable.

Spoiler

The cop's line about the death of the girlfriend being the responsibility of whoever put her in the situation

was said in such a direct manner that I have a hard time imagining that he didn't know. However, now I'm second guessing myself.

Spoiler

Either way, the ending works pretty well both as a kind of realization for the bank robber and the final nail in the coffin for whatever possible revenge he was planning.

[Murdoch]

While the film itself left me kind of cold, I loved this one shot toward the beginning at the brothel where all the prostitutes are in a changing room and everyone is completely in frame, no one ever leaves the frame, they just move deeper within it. A great sense of depth was created, definitely the highlight of the film for me.

[jbeall]

I didn't think it was even disputable.

Spoiler

The cop's line about the death of the girlfriend being the responsibility of whoever put her in the situation

was said in such a direct manner that I have a hard time imagining that he didn't know. However, now I'm second guessing myself.

Spoiler

Either way, the ending works pretty well both as a kind of realization for the bank robber and the final nail in the coffin for whatever possible revenge he was planning.

Spoiler

Their dialogue certainly suggests that he at least has an inkling, and my inclination is to believe that the cop realizes whom he's speaking with. But I think it withholds just enough that we can't know 100% for sure.

[TedW]

a great film that started off in the most mediocre fashion.

Except there's no such thing, if a film is well directed (which it must be, to be great).

I'll agree with you, Nothing... I don't think any of the negative comments about the first part of the film make any sense.

[saji1986]

I bought this disc as an afterthought (included it with an order of Gomorrah) - two of the first CC Blu-Ray's I purchased. Gomorrah while interesting, didn't resonate with me, Revanche on the other hand, couldn't get it out of my head for weeks. I thought it was a great film, with so many different layers, and I love that it left so many things open to interpretation.

Criterion caught me completely off guard with this release, in a very pleasant way.

[Nothing]

I don't think any of the negative comments about the first part of the film make any sense.

A consistent argument, at least.

[Jun-Dai]

…the sort of state-funded Euro-pudding…

Where can I get more of this pudding?

[HistoryProf]

The broken subtitles are intentional. One of the characters, the girlfriend, is foreign and I assume doesn't speak German well so they use subtitles in broken English to relay that effect.

OK, thank you. I am ten minutes in and this is driving me crazy. Came to the thread to check if Criterion severely botched this. Glad to know this is intentional.

Whole conversations were missing, and then much of the dialogue is in broken English... I couldn't wrap my brain around it, but what you say makes sense.

As it notes in the description on the back cover, she is Ukranian, and thus speaks in broken German just as she would broken English. At the very beginning when there are no subtitles she's actually speaking to him in Russian...and they never subtitle her Russian phrases, ostensibly to highlight her limited communication abilities. I thought the subtitles did a fantastic and ingenious job of conveying that.

As for the film itself, I was pretty geeked to see this based on the reviews, and regretted that I missed it at a festival last summer, and even with those expectations it surprised me in the best ways. I thought I had it all figured out 1/4 in as well, but it goes off in remarkably genuine directions that transforms it from a conventional paint by numbers thriller into a beautiful exposition on the nature of guilt and happenstance. The scenery is gorgeous, the cinematography broad and enthralling, and the acting pitch perfect by the entire cast. It truly is a remarkable film, and although I was initially underwhelmed by the ending, upon reflection it morphed into perfection - Life, as they say, goes on.

It was a blind buy for me, and I couldn't be happier to own it. I don't know that I'll watch it once a year even, but it's a movie I'll surely pull out for company once in a while to share it as an example of beautifully crafted film.

wow. What a great film that started off in the most mediocre fashion. I agree that once the bank robbery happens and they get to the country, the film really decides to stand out. It becomes something complete different.

The cinematography is curious to me. The pastoral wide shots (and even the opening scene with him cutting grass) are fantastically vibrant but somehow muted at the same time. A very interesting effect.

I was trying to get at that in my previous post. The cinematography is somehow incredibly broad and focused afar in many shots, but at the same time quite intimate. When Alex is sitting with his grandfather at the kitchen table, it's almost as if you are simultaneously right there and down the hallway watching from a non-intrusive distance, like the far wall was removed. hard to put a finger on, but it certainly made it all the more engrossing.

[TheGodfather]

Watched the blu-ray today. Thought it was an excellent and impressive film. Great acting and beautifully shot.
The Spielmann interview was good as well, pretty interesting.

[Numero Trois]

I didn't care for Spielmann's Antares. All in all that one was a pretty dismal affair. The "euro pudding" jibe is far more appropriate for that one.

Thankfully my reaction to his latest film is quite the opposite. From start to finish it's a well made film. The whole cast did a nice job in building up the characters with an appropriate level of convincing detail. And the cinematography and sound were both outstanding. I don't know about that House of Sand & Fog comparison. The latter's themes might be too elaborate to work as a comparison. Revanche does remind me to a certain extent of Haneke's Cache, where you have that menacing tension just below the surface sustained for the duration.

Spoiler

My one quibble is the relationship between the main character and the cop's wife. The buildup to their encounters are too abrupt. And her interest in him isn't fleshed out enough. It feels like too much of a plot based convenience to be credible.

[max_cherry]

I’ve just watched Revanche and decided to provide some explanations for scenes where Tamara, Alex’ girlfriend, speaks in Russian (being from Ukraine by the way). Maybe this will be of any use for somebody.

3’:
At the beginning of film, when Tamara arrives to Alex’ place, he tries to greet her in Russian, saying something like “Hello, my Russian sun”. She corrects his pronunciation, then suggests for him to say in Russian “dostoprimechatelnosti” (sights, attractions).

6’:
After discussing with Alex their financial situation, Tamara calls home, speaks with her mother, promises to visit them closer to New Year and sends her greetings for dad and one Katjukha (maybe junior sister).

29’:
The ending of Tamara’ phone conversation with family, greetings etc.

42’:
Deciding to accompany Alex in his bank robbing, Tamara starts to say the Lord’s Prayer (“Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name…”)

That’s it, sorry for my bad English.

[denti alligator]

Thanks, Max.

[Tom Hagen]

Very cool, Max. Thank you.

[rrenault]

This film seems to divide the hardcore film lovers, and I can understand why. It requires patience, and there isn't too much emphasis on style. I was very impressed by the way it managed to humanize theoretically deplorable members of society, a bum and an illegal immigrant prostitute. Mainly, the criticisms point to the fact that it's a generic Euro drama, but my response to that is that it's simply a school of film making that is prevalent in Europe nowadays, similar in concept to how Haneke comes from the same school of film making as Bergman, as many people say. I'm sure if many films that came from Europe nowadays were similar in style to Antonioni's films, people would say they were generic Euro dramas, because of how accustomed people would be to them. That's just my opinion, however. Revanche may, deceptively, seem cliched and stereotypical, at first, but I eventually realized that it's primary intent is to make the viewer empathize with people from the 'dregs' of society. In a subtle fashion, it communicates the point that in spite of people's flaws, no matter how egregious they may be, everyone deserves recognition as a human.

[jbeall]

Revanche may, deceptively, seem cliched and stereotypical, at first, but I eventually realized that it's primary intent is to make the viewer empathize with people from the 'dregs' of society. In a subtle fashion, it communicates the point that in spite of people's flaws, no matter how egregious they may be, everyone deserves recognition as a human.

Nice post, rrenault. In light of the part of your post I've quoted, it's worth noting that these characters from the dregs (the lower depths?) are precisely the type who rarely get the second chance or restart that gives the film its title.

[doc mccoy]

This film seems to divide the hardcore film lovers, and I can understand why. It requires patience, and there isn't too much emphasis on style. I was very impressed by the way it managed to humanize theoretically deplorable members of society, a bum and an illegal immigrant prostitute. Mainly, the criticisms point to the fact that it's a generic Euro drama, but my response to that is that it's simply a school of film making that is prevalent in Europe nowadays, similar in concept to how Haneke comes from the same school of film making as Bergman, as many people say. I'm sure if many films that came from Europe nowadays were similar in style to Antonioni's films, people would say they were generic Euro dramas, because of how accustomed people would be to them. That's just my opinion, however. Revanche may, deceptively, seem cliched and stereotypical, at first, but I eventually realized that it's primary intent is to make the viewer empathize with people from the 'dregs' of society. In a subtle fashion, it communicates the point that in spite of people's flaws, no matter how egregious they may be, everyone deserves recognition as a human.

I think the reverse also works - the film does not paint a flattering picture of people who are in a better position, particularly in the form of

Spoiler

the cop's wife. Her character really makes my blood run cold - notice how when Alex rather rudely tells her to get lost, she suddenly invites him over to the house, without any sense of being fazed. They have sex for the second time - in the nursery! (Better than the marital bed, I suppose, but still!) The way she presents the news of pregnancy to her husband with no sense of guilt or shame, and the way she tells Alex to stay away once his role as sperm donor is over. But the real icing on the cake is when she puts two and two together and realizes that Alex is the robber, and also that her husband is the man whom Alex intends to murder. What does she do - rather than say "Please don't kill him", she says "Please don't tell him what happened" (presumably she's referring to the Grandfather). There's some serious narcissism there.

And the really scary part is that Alex has already taken his revenge (it's just not eye for an eye revenge as he was planning) - it's a matter of if and when the cop discovers the truth of the child's paternity - he will be subject to unimaginable emotional turmoil and trauma and the probable realization that he's married to someone totally ruthless. The cop, as we see, is not a bad man - Spielmann shows his remorse and PTSD well; it's just unfortunate for his character that Alex happened to listen outside at the moment when he was putting on a brave face over the shooting and that Alex then chose to assume that he felt no remorse over what happened.