Melancholia (Lars von Trier, 2011)

[J Adams]

Honestly, it's difficult to take Tree of Life seriously after reading the very clever quip, I believe from someone here, which called it a two and a half hour perfume commercial, which is so dead-on as to render any further analysis unnecessary!

It was me who called it a 2 and half hour life insurance commercial if that's what you were referring to. Needless to say at the time of the initial bed-wetting frenzy with which it was greeted I was symbolically tarred and feathered and ridden out of the forum on a rail.

I think perfume and life insurance are equally applicable.

[Tommaso]

That's pretty much how it went down with Antichrist, though this time there's no Criterion to wait for.

Sorry if the info is somewhere in this thread, but who is going to release "Melancholia" in the US? In other words, is it certain that Criterion won't do it?

[Brian C]

Magnolia, IOW no Criterion.

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

Honestly, it's difficult to take Tree of Life seriously after reading the very clever quip, I believe from someone here, which called it a two and a half hour perfume commercial, which is so dead-on as to render any further analysis unnecessary!

It was me who called it a 2 and half hour life insurance commercial if that's what you were referring to. Needless to say at the time of the initial bed-wetting frenzy with which it was greeted I was symbolically tarred and feathered and ridden out of the forum on a rail.

I think perfume and life insurance are equally applicable.

You're right I normally dab a little life insurance behind my ears before setting out on a friday night.

[knives]

You guys do know we don't have to bag on one film to like another? I haven't seen Melancholian yet, but since I generally agree with Zedz on von Trier I'm assuming I'll like it more than Malick's film, but that doesn't mean I have to go around hating that film either.

[swo17]

Actually, I find there are occasionally films that I might call replacement films, where the two films are on a similar enough wavelength (perhaps one introduces you to something that the other, seen later, executes in a more satisfying way) that the superior one can have the effect of rendering the other less relevant in the mind. I need to rewatch ToL to see if it still has the same impact on me as it did at first viewing, but I think I would say it's fallen a bit in my estimation, owing to effusive fan worship and, yes, seeing Melancholia.

[NABOB OF NOWHERE]

You guys do know we don't have to bag on one film to like another? I haven't seen Melancholian yet, but since I generally agree with Zedz on von Trier I'm assuming I'll like it more than Malick's film, but that doesn't mean I have to go around hating that film either.

My assessment of TOL as a life insurance ad has no qualitative reference to Melancholia as I haven't seen it yet. Mind you from what I've seen of the trailer all that swishing around in ball gowns in Capability Brown-like surroundings looks very much like a perfume ad.

[J Adams]

This is indeed a good example of one master filmmaker trumping another by using a similar device in a FAR more effective (narratively and thematically) way, so strongly that it makes the weaker film's flaws more apparent.

I enjoyed the Malick film a lot but found it emotionally neutral. Too much prettiness for it's own sake. No extended communication BETWEEN characters. Jessica's character was too inert. The acting was "ACTING", particularly Brad, Sean, and young Sean.

Dunst gives you something to hang onto. A real person, flickering with subtlety. Something Chastain and Pitt were not. Ditto Gainsbourg, but I had some issues with the one-noteness of her perf in her "chapter". It was still very effective.

Melancholia also is, in parts, extremely funny. That adds a very useful balance and helps draw the viewer into the film. ToL had a few bits of stock humor.

Needless to say, Melancholia's ending is infinitely superior to Malick's.

Thematically I don't see the films as being that different. I don't think ToL is "about" faith or that Melancholia is "about" depression. Rather both are explorations of family relationships with a cosmic context that adds a moving layer of perspective. ToL's, however, is somewhat trite and, as has been said ad nauseum, not integrated into the film.

One thing Melancholia is not is an ad for life insurance.

[Zot!]

You guys do know we don't have to bag on one film to like another?

These were officially in competition against eachother at Cannes, so it's not unfair to compare their merits.

[swo17]

One thing Melancholia is not is an ad for life insurance.

Spoiler

Whatevs, anyone who would have taken a life insurance policy out on the entire population of the Earth would have made a killing!

[zedz]

You guys do know we don't have to bag on one film to like another? I haven't seen Melancholian yet, but since I generally agree with Zedz on von Trier I'm assuming I'll like it more than Malick's film, but that doesn't mean I have to go around hating that film either.

My assessment of TOL as a life insurance ad has no qualitative reference to Melancholia as I haven't seen it yet. Mind you from what I've seen of the trailer all that swishing around in ball gowns in Capability Brown-like surroundings looks very much like a perfume ad.

Actually, I'd argue that the opening sequence of Melancholia is very much like a perfume ad. But in a completely deliberate and very smart way. It's the end of the world as it would appear in Vanity Fair.

[domino harvey]

And it's a comparatively short sequence before the film finds a more "normal" yet still beautiful approach to mise-en-scene. And again, that's why the two films should be tied together in discussion-- one sacrifices all for an aesthetic approach, the other doesn't and walks away the winner in the process.

[mfunk9786]

One also has a realistic viewpoint regarding life's large, looming questions while the other leans on fairy tale silliness.

[colinr0380]

We should also remember that von Trier had already done the 'sacrificing all for an aesthetic approach' in Element of Crime (and Nocturne, which is perhaps the first of his films to feature a slow motion shocking prologue!), so perhaps he got it out of his system. It certainly seems that going through the Dogme period allowed him to go back to incorporating highly visual elements into his filmmaking in a more strategic, rather than overwhelming, way.

[Mr Sausage]

Tree of Life discussion moved to its appropriate thread.

[Tom Hagen]

Tree of Life discussion moved to its appropriate thread.

Awwww. I was hoping for an "Auteur Fanboy Smack-Down Superthread: Pretension and Perfume" or something.

[knives]

Our insurance policy doesn't cover that.

[mfunk9786]

This went from my second favorite film of the year to a longshot #1 when I got to see it on the big screen – the sound mixing is absolutely astounding. Hopefully there’ll be instructions on the reels that go out to theaters to crank up the volume – the music is lovely, and the final scene completely negates the whole “5.1 surround sound is a gimmick!” conversation going on in the Blu-ray thread right now. In the theater, the wedding scenes play as much more compelling, which can be attributed to von Trier’s impeccable eye for shot composition even when utilizing a handheld camera. I don’t know where in the hell he found the location for this film, but the theatricality of the porch’s view into oblivion during the second part of the film is breathtaking, particularly as Melancholia comes closer and closer.

I could keep rambling about this film forever, but I’ve already reviewed it here – I just wanted to implore everyone to wait until this comes to a theater near you to see it for the first time, and failing that – make sure you make it out to see it there even if you already have watched it at home. Melancholia is a bona-fide masterpiece.

[LQ]

I don't know if I can lay it on any thicker, but mfunk, swo, zedz and others here are dead-on about the merits of this film and the necessity of seeing it on the biggest screen/with the best sound system possible. I've been ambivalent about von Trier's films in the past, but this overwhelmingly won me over. I've never suffered from depression, but I felt the genius diptych structure of the film was immensely involving for non-depression sufferers and I'm grateful for it, even if it did leave me quite shell-shocked.

Spoiler

The significance of the three sitting in the teepee of boughs at the end was especially moving, the idea that even against the face of depression or the finality of death there is some small solace or meaning to be found in creating and sharing a fiction with others, whether it be the childlike fantasy of a 'magic cave', or say, a magnificently constructed piece of art like Melancholia.

I wonder, did anyone notice if Dürer's Melencolia was one of the works shown face-up on the books that Justine chose to replace the static geometric shape art books with in the library? I didn't think to notice at the time, but in remembrance I can almost convince myself I saw a flash of it. Would've been a nice touch, if so.

[mfunk9786]

I was outside on my break earlier and realized that

Spoiler

no one has mentioned the amazing time lapse shot of all sorts of horror emerging from the dirt under Charlotte Gainsbourg's feet yet! Mindboggling stuff.

If you have a good enough home theater setup, this'll be showing on HDNet Movies on November 9th at 7:30 PM EST. That means 720p video and 5.1 surround sound, which is pretty damn good, considering. Fire up those DVRs!

[accatone]

I wonder, did anyone notice if Dürer's Melencolia was one of the works shown face-up on the books that Justine chose to replace the static geometric shape art books with in the library? I didn't think to notice at the time, but in remembrance I can almost convince myself I saw a flash of it. Would've been a nice touch, if so.

I only remember the Bruegel because a reproduction of this (Hunters in the snow) had a prominent place in my childhood environment. But i found this blog entry. In German, but the images tell the story. I can not verify this blog, but it is supposed to present the paintings shown in Melancholia.

[Tom Hagen]

Is HDNet Movies a separate channel from HDNet (aka home of Dan Rather, nature programming, and girls going wild)?

[Brian C]

Yes.

[LQ]

I wonder, did anyone notice if Dürer's Melencolia was one of the works shown face-up on the books that Justine chose to replace the static geometric shape art books with in the library? I didn't think to notice at the time, but in remembrance I can almost convince myself I saw a flash of it. Would've been a nice touch, if so.

I only remember the Bruegel because a reproduction of this (Hunters in the snow) had a prominent place in my childhood environment. But i found this blog entry. In German, but the images tell the story. I can not verify this blog, but it is supposed to present the paintings shown in Melancholia.

Thanks, accatone. I now recognize most of the paintings in the blog post from the library scene in question, so I suppose Dürer's engraving was not included in her reorganization after all.

[Jeff]

I don't suspect I'll see another film that I admire more than Melancholia this year. I guess I don't have much to add to the discussion other than my hearty recommendation. Yes, it absolutely invokes Tarkovsky and Bergman. The slow motion prologue is a stunner, each of the two main sections is riveting, and the brilliantly contrasting character arcs of Dunst and Gainsbourg (who deliver my favorite performances of the year) still have me thinking about the film four days after seeing it. The supporting cast is great too (Keifer Sutherland, who knew?).

I saw it on the big screen, the way God intended, and in light of its OnDemand availability, want to reiterate the necessity of the theatrical experience. I can't imagine replicating the visual splendor of the pre-title sequence or the aural power of the climax at home.

I suppose it's been a pretty good year for super-auteur, theoretical-magnum-opus, worldview-encompassing theses on life at the cinema (you know, relatively speaking). I think then, that the comparisons to Tree of Life are inevitable and apt. I found many things to admire in both films, and both burrowed deep in my psyche. To the extent that my favor lies with the von Trier for now, I think swo said it best:

One film is kind of an ode to faith, the other an ode to despair, and without placing a value judgment on either concept, the latter is I suppose just more interesting to watch a film about.