Warner Brothers Archive Collection (DVDs only)

[Gregory]

Hilarious marketing copy there.

*Hordes of fans of Madonna and No Doubt rush the WB site to preorder a box of obscure 1930s films*

[JPJ]

Sad but true: Jean Harlow Collection - October 25th

What happened to Red Dust??!

[knives]

Isn't that already in the Archive (each time I figure I'm done being mad at these yahoos they pull a new stunt).

[JPJ]

If it is,I can't find it but it seems to be available from Spain.

[felipe]

I don't understand... these are going to have to be pre-manufactured already to include the cards and outer box. Why are they not real DVDs? Arghhhhhhhhhhh

That's funny indeed.

Anyway, the only difference between this and "real dvds" is that this is not available to physical stores, right?

[knives]

The also waste away quicker/ more easily damaged/ yadda.

[fdm]

Besides Barnes and Noble, are there really any physical stores left that might actually carry this type of thing any more? Pretty slim pickings in my area for other options (far as I know).

[knives]

The Fry's over by my place carries that sort of stuff.

[Fred Holywell]

Yeah, where's "Red Dust"?! Warners must be looking for 'better elements', as they like to say. Can't be for another Clark Gable box; not with so much of his work already in the Archive as stand-alones. I suppose either a 'Forbidden Hollywood IV' or Gable-Harlow set would be other logical places to put it.

All things considered, the Harlow box is pretty nice to see. I suppose the Harlow festival TCM ran in March attracted a strong enough audience to push this thing out the door. It would have been sweeter if Warners included more pre-code stuff, though. The selections, other than "Bombshell" and "Reckless", aren't especially top-drawer.

The extras are interesting and appreciated, but I could live without another redundant 'photo set'. This might have been a smart place to put the 1937 MGM Convention short that TCM occasionally runs. It famously features the very last film footage of Harlow (walking hand-in-hand with L.B. Mayer) before she died just a few weeks later.

[Frankinho007]

On Facebook WAC said this regarding Dust:

We also understand the disappointment that RED DUST and HOLD YOUR MAN were not included. We understand because we are equally disappionted. While all of these films are victims of years of wear, and their original negatives having been destroyed by the tragic fire in the '70s, the surviving elements for both DUST & MAN could not yield us a master of quality we deemed acceptable. Our colleagues at WB Motion Picture Imaging have been conducting tests using new technologies that could improve heavily damaged B&W source elements. The team at MPI are specifically using sequences from RED DUST to try and address the serious damage inherent in the surviving material with the hopes that a superior image can be extracted from what we have left to work with.

[Noiradelic]

Get Carter and Fingers now unbelievably relegated from DVDs to MODs

Unbelievable. Fortunately, the real DVDs (with directors' commentaries) of both films are available new from third parties on Amazon right now for seven bucks each. Both fulfilled by Amazon & Prime eligible. You can get both films shipped for less than the cost of one featureless DVR from The Archive.

I received a new copy of Get Carter from an Amazon fulfilled seller. On the cover it has the French title in prominent letters under the English one, and on the spine the two titles are the same size. Assume it's the Canadian version, because it's R1 and otherwise looks identical to the US cover. Another seller lists his copy as having the French writing so I just wanted to give people a heads up that other sellers may have this version as well. Was the original US version a snapper or keepcase? This one's is a keepcase.

[Fred Holywell]

While all of these films are victims of years of wear, and their original negatives having been destroyed by the tragic fire in the '70s, the surviving elements for both DUST & MAN could not yield us a master of quality we deemed acceptable.

Thoughtful of Warners to offer the explanation re DUST & MAN. Unfortunate that they're both in such rough shape. When and where was the '70s fire? The last major vault fire MGM had was in 1967, or am I forgetting something?

I haven't seen either in years, but RED DUST used to run on local TV when I was a kid in the '70s. It looked murky in parts, but not terrible, that I recall. And I know it was issued on VHS and LD, though I've seen neither. I'm a bit surprised the elements used for the laser aren't suitable for DVD-R. Unless, of course, Warners is thinking of issuing DUST (and MAN) on pressed DVDs in a 'Forbidden Hollywood IV' set.

edit: I've learned that the 1978 fire was at the George Eastman House in Rochester, NY. The fire consumed the original camera negatives for 329 films, including at least 150 reels of original negs or nitrate dupes that MGM had deposited there. (from Wikipedia and other on-line sources)

[Frankinho007]

Some more explanation regarding the elements of Dust from their Facebook site:

You've asked very important a timely questions that can help illustrate our process. We don't master from "prints" unless that is all that survives. UCLA only has 16mm pts. of DUST and MAN, but obtained 35mm circulating prints for their retrospective. These (and the dupe negs they came from) would not yield an acceptable new master. (How we wish that wasn't the case!)
As part of MGM's preservation program (begun in the 1960s) for each B&W film, a 35mm safety Fine Grain Master positive was made from the nitrate camera negative. From that Fine Gran, a safety dupe negative was made. The originals were then sent for preservation where most were victims of the fire in 1978. The FG is our most original source to work from, and many of these have been subsequently encumbered by damage or vinegar syndrome, etc.
RED DUST was a VERY popular film, and because Kodak had not come up with very good duping stocks until the late '30s, it was commonplace to make many prints of the original camera negatives. The more popular the film, the more prints made off the neg, the more damaged the original source. So years of damage to the original were printed in to the safety FG of RED DUST....and the safety dupe negs made from it. This background explains our challenges....which also exist on countless other films of the era.

[agnamaracs]

The also waste away quicker/ more easily damaged/ yadda.

The shelf life issue is my main problem with the Archive series. The difference between "pressed" and "burned" DVDs is exactly that: in manufactured DVDs, the information is literally pressed into the disc by a negative master; data on DVD-Rs is burned onto a layer of dye. (As is my understanding.)

Which one is more likely to still be playable years down the line?

As for the downgrading of former pressed discs to Archive titles: I wouldn't mind that in certain cases. Unfortunately, WB has consistently chosen the wrong titles. Gaslight? Get Carter? Dreams? Certainly, these films deserve better. Especially Gaslight, a film so popular its plot and title became a verb.

But then there are titles that probably didn't even sell many copies when they were first released, titles that are more "niche" favorites. Just as an example, I wouldn't mind seeing Performance in the archive. Out of print, cult favorite, not many features, surprised they pressed it in the first place. Plus, maybe a reissue will make the pressed version less valuable (the Amazon prices are ridiculous).

Another suggestion: the second disc of the Maltese Falcon set (with the '31 original and Satan Met a Lady). It is conspicuously absent from the Blu-ray edition, and I don't typically like having two copies of the same movie.

But as I said, they are making some puzzling decisions. This Jean Harlow box seems pointless (not the box itself, but putting it in the Archive). The only theory I have is that if "Red Dust" was in the box, they would have pressed it.

It's a really disturbing and distressing trend. I remember reading the TCM Vault thread and seeing that some people got pressed discs, while others received DVD-Rs. It's got me worrying that a) the extinction of disc-based media is ending sooner than predicted; b) O Lucky Man may be next on the chopping block (though it's still in print... for now).

And I still despise their treatment of "Urgh! A Music War." Loathsome, that.

[htdm]

Warner's certainly doesn't treat their archive discs with the same confidence as their pressed discs.
Ever try replacing an archive title when it doesn't work after the first couple of weeks? Good luck.
They only offer a ridiculous short window in which to replace any defective discs.

[Frankinho007]

In Germany, Preminger's Saint Joan and The Moon is Blue will be released on DVD by a new company called Cine qua non - these Preminger's are not owned by Warner over here. The interesting part: For their recent releases of three Preston Sturges movies Cine qua non worked together with TLEFilms and TLEFilms also restored these Preminger, so Cine qua non might use their master as well:
http://www.cinequanon.de/dvd-bluray" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Person]

Watching Dark of the Sun. Doesn't feel like a 1968 film. Great dialogue. I'm aware that it is cut. I'll ask Jeffrey at Warner UK if their element is different...

[Mr. Ned]

Is there even an uncut edition of Dark of the Sun available? I was under the assumption the WB archive disc is as definitive as we'll likely receive barring some unexpected discovery in a vault somewhere.

[Props55]

Can anyone here describe or enumerate the cuts? A friend of mine used to refer to this film as the most violent mainstream action film he'd ever seen. Not sure if he'd seen THE WILD BUNCH et. al. at the time (early 70's) but his claim remained untested by me until DARK showed up on TNT about fifteen years ago. I found the film to be extremely "dark" indeed and quite violent for its time. Now TNT was mostly (only?) movies at the time and was not the top tier movie venue that TCM was to become (it was commercially interrupted) so I wonder if DARK was cut to any appreciable degree as were major network moviecasts. In addition to the obvious action film violence I recall also a subtle (again, for its time) but definate suggestion that one of the wounded soldiers left behind was being sodomized by a rebel. The conclusion was very intense and marred only by some sloppy back projection which was jarringly bad even on TV.

[Ashirg]

Here's Warner Archive's response to the Dark of the Sun debate.

A post at Cult Labs Forum mentions these cuts:
- The mission massacre (totally cut,this should be quite gruesome)
- Simba infested town (more gruesome? footage)
- Train wagon rolling back (more gruesome footage)
- End fight scene (more gruesome footage)

[Feego]

Add Louis Malle's Damage and Start the Revolution Without Me to the list of MOD reductions. #-o

[agnamaracs]

And DAMAGE was/is a New Line title.

I guess we can forget about a Criterion version of Cronenberg's CRASH. Or any new pressed version, for that matter.

[starmanof51]

There's an inordinate number of things on their preorder page right now, including another release of "Give a Girl a Break." The alt-text for the cover says "Remaster", though I don't see that mentioned anywhere else. I think it was Domino that was gagging at their previous release, so maybe they're fixing it for him. "Affairs of Dobie Gillis" is also listed, which pleases me, and "Hollywood Party", which at least interests me.

[Murdoch]

The previous Give a Girl a Break was godawful, sub-VHS quality so a remaster is a godsend, if true.

[John Edmond]

Just pointing out that B&N are having a 40% off sale on Warner Archive. Not that great if you live in America, but if you don't it's one of the better chances to grab them without too much third party markup.