Melancholia (Lars von Trier, 2011)

[mfunk9786]

She was tickled pink by the limo ride, and I don't just throw that phrase around!

[wattsup32]

I think the second part clearly follows the first chronologically, but I'm sure there are several parallels between the two halves such as the ones you have astutely pointed out.

That seems to be the consensus and I'm happy to go along with it. As I said, I had a very difficult time following the chronology of the first part (and, as a consequence, the second part's relation to it). The only thing I was sure of was that the opening was a film-in-precis. After that I lost the trail for some reason.

I have another question: Was Justine being called "Auntie Steelbreaker", "Auntie Dealbreaker", or both? It seemed to me that she was Auntie Dealbreaker in part 1. That was reinforced for me when Keifer Sutherland had the conversation about the their "deal." I was pretty certain she was being called Auntie Steelbreaker in part 2. Is there something I missed that should have made it clear to me which it was (if it wasn't both)?

[mfunk9786]

You're overthinking the two-part structure. You might want to take the film more at face value than you are. Steelbreaker.

[John Cope]

I don't have much use for this movie personally but for those thus inclined, this is about as good a piece on it as I've seen.

[dad1153]

Caught "Melancholia" over at NYC's Angelika Center. If you had told me at the start of the year that my two favorite movies of 2011 would both deal with the emotional states of their female leads as a new out-of-nowhere planet orbits around Earth’s atmosphere (with the planet being the ‘B’ story on both movies) I would have said you don’t know me or the types of movies I like. “Another Earth” enthralled me with the introspective journey of wish-fulfillment its characters embark on as metaphors for the humanity-changing extraterrestrial events surrounding them. “Melancholia” expands this canvas by looking at family relations (which “Another Earth” chooses to ignore) and human traditions (the wedding that takes nearly half the movie's running time and its like a movie-within-a-movie), then brings the main protagonist sisters and themes together for one of the most monumentally sad-but-uplifting final moments I’ve ever felt watching a motion picture. And this coming from someone that, except for ‘The Kingdom’ TV series, hasn’t liked anything else Lars von Trier has done (“Breaking the Waves” literally gave me a headache). Maybe I just got used to the ‘shakycam’ technique after everybody else (Paul Greengrass movies, the new “Battlestar Galactica,” etc.) started using it. But damn if “Melancholia” isn't gorgeously-lit and nicely-framed from start (the amazing slow-motion prologue) to jaw-dropping end. These aren't just visual/aural shock stunts though, but exclamation points to the things von Trier is trying to express about himself, depression, clarity of thought and humanity. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I may have to check "Antichrist" after seeing "Melancholia" because the latter has left me hungry for more of whatever it is that Lars is selling.

I honestly didn’t think Kirsten Dunst had this kind of performance in her. She’s never less than riveting even during the portion of “Melancholia” where Charlotte Gainsbourg (who’s no lightweight) is the focal point of the story. Keifer Sutherland is wasted but does the most he can with the thankless role of John. He's probably meant to represent the hypocrites in the world that marvel at celestial things (i.e. religious fanatics) but, when confronted with the errors of their ways and facing the consequences of their charlatan tongue, choose the "easy" way out of not facing the repercussions of their actions (i.e. facing his son and wife with the truth, etc.). He definitely didn't belong in the 'spiritual' stick tent Justine built, as there was only room in that tent for an innocent (Leo), a person at peace with themselves (Justine) and an average terrified 'normal' person (Claire). That John took Claire's pills and left her to deal with Leo and what was left of their lives says volumes about how he truly felt about her and their son. Every moment of inner pain Claire has to endure during her remaining minutes on Earth go exactly like she didn't want to endure them... thanks a lot pussy Jack Bauer! The supporting cast (Charlotte Rampling, Jesper Christensen, Udo Kier, John Hurt, Alexander and Stellan Skarsgard, etc.) do their small parts so well I found myself wondering what each were doing on their own when the 2nd half of the movie unfolds. I can totally see Udo's character blocking the incoming Melancholia threat by using his hand until the last possible second.

You can tell "Melancholia" is a European movie from an old-school, old-world director because, unlike “Another Earth” (which also limits its impact on the narrative to a couple of key scenes), the media (TV, cell phones, internet, etc.) doesn’t intrude into the quiet build-up of character development that’s the laser-like focus of “Melancholia” even as its not-so-fantastic ‘B’ story gathers momentum. Beautiful, well-acted, introspective and the ultimate what-would-I-do-if-this-were-me play-along scenario, “Melancholia” is the type of experience I (rarely) go to the movies to experience anymore. Shame most people will only see it on Video On Demand or (eventually) DVD/Blu-ray because the experience of seeing/hearing "Melancholia" on a big screen with surround sound is something I’ll never get to experience again. Guess that means I'm going to have to go see it again before it leaves theaters because here in NYC (unlike 90% of the country) that's an actual option!

[dad1153]

...von Trier is in fact a genius... a peerless instinct for casting actresses in roles they were born to play. Dunst is beyond belief in this. I don't believe anyone else could have brought her to this, and obtained so much back from her.

Penélope Cruz was originally cast in the Justine role, which gives me pause as to whether Charlotte Gainsbourg would have been as convincing with Cruz as sisters. With Dunst the chemistry and dual opposites relation with Gainsbourg (blond vs. brunette, free-spirited vs. repressed, sick and helpless vs. protected by family institution, etc.) is just so perfect. Guess this is one of those instances in which the movie lucked into a substitute lead actor that was the perfect choice all along.

[mfunk9786]

Paul Thomas Anderson suggested Dunst to Lars von Trier.

[J Adams]

I would prefer the actual obliteration of the Earth to having Cruz star in this. Horrifying.

[mfunk9786]

I thought she'd have been the more interesting choice - she's capable of great things (like her criminally overlooked performance in Volver) and I'd love to see her collaborate with von Trier.

[domino harvey]

I'd like to see her in that porno von Trier's making, if you catch my drift

[Reliakor]

I found the first part of this film watchable enough, though I thought Dunst's character more obnoxiously psychotic than depressed, but the second half or so was excruciatingly dull.

[Jeff]

I thought Dunst's character more obnoxiously psychotic than depressed

What did she do that led you to that conclusion?

[mfunk9786]

Obnoxiously psychotic, depressed; tomato, tomato

[Reliakor]

I thought Dunst's character more obnoxiously psychotic than depressed

What did she do that led you to that conclusion?

Flitting away from the celebration whenever the merest fancy pops into her head (to bathe, to extend a bed-tucking into a nap, to leave the groom's token (the photo) on the couch). I can understand how in the psychiatric culture of the present day such things may well be diagnostic of what we call clinical depression, but I personally have no inclination to favor her character with anything more than amused contempt.

[Jeff]

Flitting away from the celebration whenever the merest fancy pops into her head (to bathe, to extend a bed-tucking into a nap, to leave the groom's token (the photo) on the couch). I can understand how in the psychiatric culture of the present day such things may well be diagnostic of what we call clinical depression, but I personally have no inclination to favor her character with anything more than amused contempt.

I viewed all of those actions as her attempts to escape from what she considers the "fake" happiness of her guests, their bourgeois celebration, and the marriage she's not really interested in. She wasn't bathing and napping for fun, she was doing it as a way of avoidance, becoming insular, and hiding from a world she found herself suddenly unable to cope with. I don't think one needs to subscribe to popular psychology to view that kind of behavior as signs of severe depression. Psychosis implies that she was deranged or out out of touch with reality, which I didn't see any evidence of.

[Reliakor]

I viewed all of those actions as her attempts to escape from what she considers the "fake" happiness of her guests, their bourgeois celebration, and the marriage she's not really interested in. She wasn't bathing and napping for fun, she was doing it as a way of avoidance, becoming insular, and hiding from a world she found herself suddenly unable to cope with. I don't think one needs to subscribe to popular psychology to view that kind of behavior as signs of severe depression. Psychosis implies that she was deranged or out out of touch with reality, which I didn't see any evidence of.

I sympathize with her plight, and don't care for the mediocrities around her either, yet I simply don't think her response to it bears any admiration. If she were to simply divorce herself from these people and accept her position as a malcontent I would shout her name to the heavens; I just very much dislike this sort of incestuous infliction of her own demons onto those in close proximity to her. When depression reaches a certain pitch of severity that involves the kind of willful callousness I believe I witnessed, considering her out of touch with reality is light criticism.

[Gregory]

If she were to simply divorce herself from these people and accept her position as a malcontent I would shout her name to the heavens; I just very much dislike this sort of incestuous infliction of her own demons onto those in close proximity to her.

That's exactly what she does in the "Justine" part of the film: intentionally sabotaging the career, marriage, and bourgeois world that feel essentially wrong to her (or at least that she doesn't belong in them) so that in the later part the only people left for her are her sister and nephew. She has accepted what she is, and her acts of will in the first half seem to make her generally stronger in the second half. One could argue about what she should have done differently in the first place if she had been a functional, healthy person who could take charge of her life and avoid getting into a situations where she's working for someone she loathes and is engaged to a person she really doesn't think she should be married to. But she's not; I think that's part of what we're supposed to see in the first half. I think it misses the point to criticize the film by saying that the way she acts is not completely admirable.

Spoiler

For me, her most admirable act is in the final stage of the story, when she overcomes her tendency to nihilism ("Life on earth is evil") in order to comfort her nephew during the last moments, an act that she would surely find pointless if indeed nothing mattered and everything related to their lives (including the nephew's suffering) was utterly insignificant or even inherently "evil." That's the only way I've found to make sense of the end of it, anyway.

[mfunk9786]

I don't find it as complicated as all that. I just legitimately think she was having a bad day. Depression isn't ever a constant affliction - it comes in and out with varying frequency, and does not have any regard for what situation one is in, or how happy they 'should' be. von Trier has made a very deliberate decision of setting the first half of the film at a lavish, fairytale wedding to a hunky, sincere, kind man as the backdrop for one of Justine's worst mental breakdowns. She wasn't making a conscious decision to shit all over her wedding because of some disdain for the bourgeois.

[Reliakor]

One could argue about what she should have done differently in the first place if she had been a functional, healthy person who could take charge of her life and avoid getting into a situations where she's working for someone she loathes and is engaged to a person she really doesn't think she should be married to.

I follow you, but functionality isn't binary, and there are certainly severely depressed people who don't embroil themselves in quite as dysfunctional a state as Justine. I fully support Von Trier's premise in this film (choose one, I support it); it would just require (for me) Justine to be a more interesting and noble personality than she is presented.

[mfunk9786]

People embroil themselves in legitimate mental afflictions that they have no choice in having? Interesting.

[Gregory]

Depression is pretty constant for many people.
I should add that I don't think her disdain for bourgeois life is of the moral or political sort; she just doesn't think she belongs in that world, and she can never be what she's expected to be: the perfect bride and upwardly mobile career woman. It's no accident that her breakdown as many major pressures peak and converge at the same time: extended wedding celebrations that are picture-perfect and everything needs to happen on schedule and on cue, celebrations she feels entirely isolated from but which she's repeatedly told not to spoil because of their material cost; a major promotion in front of everyone; come up with a tagline tonight or this kid gets fired, etc. So I find it bizarre to say that she just happened to be having a bad day.

[Reliakor]

People embroil themselves in legitimate mental afflictions that they have no choice in having? Interesting.

I don't know where the affliction ends and the will takes over, and I suspect even psychiatry hasn't advanced past conjecture and what is of clinical expedience.

[mfunk9786]

She wanted the wedding, she was excited as she approached the wedding. She was giving a legitimate effort to appreciate it and enjoy herself. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that her mental state just got the best of her. I just don't know why von Trier would have chosen her wedding as the setting for the opening half of the film were it not an attempt to show us how little control she had over her mental state, and how far gone she was. I think Justine would choose to be able to be celebratory and happy like the other folks at the wedding were she given the option, she just doesn't have their level of psychological control over herself.

Reliakor, if that isn't a joke, you might want to read some books or talk to an actual psychiatrist.

[Mr Sausage]

Depression is pretty constant for many people.
I should add that I don't think her disdain for bourgeois life is of the moral or political sort; she just doesn't think she belongs in that world, and she can never be what she's expected to be: the perfect bride and upwardly mobile career woman. It's no accident that her breakdown as many major pressures peak and converge at the same time: extended wedding celebrations that are picture-perfect and everything needs to happen on schedule and on cue, celebrations she feels entirely isolated from but which she's repeatedly told not to spoil because of their material cost; a major promotion in front of everyone; come up with a tagline tonight or this kid gets fired, etc. So I find it bizarre to say that she just happened to be having a bad day.

It also seems to be the case that Justine lacks a lot of the emotional support she would need to deal properly with her affliction. She repeatedly attempts to reach out to her father and mother, and is either avoided in the case of her father, or oppressed by her mother's self-indulgent negativity. Her sister, while there for her at least physically and with basic concern, evinces Reliakor's attitude: Claire's pragmatism finds Justine burdensome, and she's repeatedly irritated that he sister can't just snap out of it and be practical the way that she herself is. It's unfortunately the case (well observed by von Trier) that people often resent those sufferers of mental illness they must care for, no matter how much they love the sufferer, because that person just can't do simple things, easy things you'd think, and therefore monopolizes attention. When something seems so simple to you, it can be hard to watch a grown adult just fail to do such simple things (and which you must now do for them). That's where the 'why can't you just snap out of it?!' response usually comes from.

What makes the climax so wonderful is that when Claire can no longer be pragmatic, can no longer find shelter in either her material lifestyle or the authority of her husband, she turns to her sister for support--and her sister gives it, even at the moment when the gesture should be the most meaningless. Depression is a disease that makes you turn inward, closes you off in your own skull; that's unavoidable. Justine, repeatedly looking for a way out of this, finds two escapes from it: in the end of her consciousness, and in a gesture of comfort and human sympathy for people whose fear and despair she actually doesn't share. Where Claire is weakest, Justine is strongest, and vice versa. But at the end of the movie both have stepped outside of their petty self-concerns for one brief moment. If you don't find that moving on a basic human level, all I can do is shrug.

[Gregory]

She wanted the wedding, she was excited as she approached the wedding. She was giving a legitimate effort to appreciate it and enjoy herself. I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say that her mental state just got the best of her. I just don't know why von Trier would have chosen her wedding as the setting for the opening half of the film were it not an attempt to show us how little control she had over her mental state, and how far gone she was. I think Justine would choose to be able to be celebratory and happy like the other folks at the wedding were she given the option, she just doesn't have their level of psychological control over herself.

I think she was most likely deeply conflicted about it long before it happened but was trying to get herself to go through with it. A depressed person will often try very hard to push onward (through the grey yarn in the image of the film) and try to approximate what is "normal," to do what others expect. There were surely appealing things about the wedding and the marriage itself but they represent a type of "normal" that she could never attain and could only pretend to fulfill for so long, which is why she had to continue to escape, to be alone and to wrestle with the bridal gown. The effort to do otherwise reached a point where it became impossible to continue, the convergence of pressures I described above, and something had to give. Would she choose to be "happy" in some way if she somehow had that option? Probably, but I don't think she aspires to be like the other people at the wedding, most of whom are clearly miserable or despicable in their own ways. The "happy, normal" person is an illusion in the world of the film. Claire, for example, is pretty "normal" but is troubled and fragile, falling apart the moment there are not clear directions or a milieu in which it is clear what she is expected to do or what the social norms are.

Mr Sausage: I agree with all that -- well said.