The Iron Lady (Phyllida Lloyd, 2011)

[MichaelB]

No idea what you're talking about but, yes, that does sound remarkably different... :-k

Which is why I clarified the distinction.

Another crucial difference is that everyone here (bar dad1153) is being completely upfront about not having seen the film yet, whereas the guy I was mocking would only grudgingly reveal that information several posts into his denunciations, usually under cross-examination.

That's the kind of thing that's discouraged round here - healthy speculation is something quite different.

[hearthesilence]

I wish this wasn't still true...

[John Edmond]

What happens when you deliberately avoid directors who may infringe upon your acting.

[tarpilot]

Let's be honest, we all know the obvious solution here...

[John Edmond]

so yes

[knives]

She was in The Deer Hunter and...

[Gregory]

I wish this wasn't still true...

That piece cheats by not mentioning Defending Your Life. And while many of her films haven't been outright classics, they were better than just "okay." She could have made a lot of better choices, IMHO, but that's true of most major stars, including the ones who are really talented.

[Reliakor]

I largely agree with the sentiment, but she'll always have Adaptation which to me is great.

[HelenLawson]

What actress from the last 30 years can claim more than one film on par with The Godfather, Raging Bull, Taxi Driver, and Annie Hall on their resume?

[tarpilot]

Lots? And lots?

[knives]

Diane Keaton, Michele Williams, lots. Though shouldn't it be forty years?

[John Edmond]

And it'd be cruel to even consider bringing in non-American actresses.

[knives]

Even Talia Shire has the Godfather films and Rocky series if iconism is needed. I don't mean to bag on Streep too much, but her niche certainly is person who makes bland films slightly less bland.

[HelenLawson]

I'm just challenging the notion that Streep is consciously choosing mediocre material because her ego can't handle direction from a great director. If Streep's rise didn't coincide with the diminishing box office appeal of and Hollywood's disinterest in producing female-driven films, then, yes, she may have had more 'classics' to her credit.

[knives]

But even with a joking disposition we've already disproved your thesis. There are many women out there even just limiting to American cinema who are still not just successful, but iconic parts of great films during the same period of time that she has worked.

[dad1153]

Deadline's Pete Hammond handicaps the Best Actress Oscar race (with guess-who as the front runner).

[matrixschmatrix]

Even Talia Shire has the Godfather films and Rocky series if iconism is needed. I don't mean to bag on Streep too much, but her niche certainly is person who makes bland films slightly less bland.

Have you seen Adaptation?

I think Streep is actual a really marvelous comic actor- Adaptation, Defending Your Life, Manhattan, Fantastic Mr. Fox- and I'd put The Devil Wears Prada in there, too- who gets saddled with a lot of sort of dumb, Oscar-baity prestige projects. Sort of like Spielberg, in that respect. I absolutely do think it's unfair to presume that's because of her ego, though- I don't know that Diane Keaton's resume looks much better recently, and it's not fair to blame Streep's ego for not being young enough to get offered the kind of parts a Michelle Williams gets.

[John Edmond]

I'm completely sympathetic to the idea that female actors are offered inferior roles, and that this discrimination gets worse as they age. But to apply this to Streep is to infantilise an intelligent and (more importantly) powerful person. This is the Streep: treated by the media as self-evidently the preeminent actor of our age, and with the star power that permits a strong mainstream release of a biopic about a foreign politician - at a time when Abraham Lincoln has to become a vampire killer to gain any chance of distribution. And as such she isn't offered roles, or at least she doesn't have to accept. Streep, like other powerful stars, is more than capable of producing her own projects (and I'm guessing she's the driving force behind The Iron Lady).

I do agree she's significantly better as a comic actor - I had decent hopes for The Devil Wears Prada understanding Streep's camp value. Alas.

[FerdinandGriffon]

In what alternate universe do Spielberg and Streep get "saddled"? You're talking about two of the most powerful and filthy rich figures in Hollywood. They make the films they do because they want to (for whatever reasons), not out of studio pressure or any kind of necessity.
It's like that interview a few years ago where Lucas whined about how "in reality" he wished he had the freedom to make small, personal films instead of Star Wars sequels. B******t.

[matrixschmatrix]

I'm completely sympathetic to the idea that female actors are offered inferior roles, and that this discrimination gets worse as they age. But to apply this to Streep is to infantilise an intelligent and (more importantly) powerful person. This is the Streep: treated by the media as self-evidently the preeminent actor of our age, and with the star power that permits a strong mainstream release of a biopic about a foreign politician - at a time when Abraham Lincoln has to become a vampire killer to gain any chance of distribution. And as such she isn't offered roles, or at least she doesn't have to accept. Streep, like other powerful stars, is more than capable of producing her own projects (and I'm guessing she's the driving force behind The Iron Lady).

I do agree she's significantly better as a comic actor - I had decent hopes for The Devil Wears Prada understanding Streep's camp value. Alas.

Well, I should clarify- it's entirely possible that the sort of dull projects she often seems to go for represent her taste, and that those are simply the kind of movies she likes and wishes to make. What I object to is the presumption that this is based in ego, in some kind of an inability to suborn herself to the wishes of a talented director- to me, that feels somewhat problematic. I meant the Spielberg connection specifically in the sense that I think he's marvelously talented at work that is often seen as somewhat lowbrow, and rarely seems to work in that field- it's true that I think Spielberg's boring Amistads are all his own doing.

I still think it's unfair to compare Streep to Michelle Williams, though. I mean, yes, Streep is probably the best known and best respected female actor of her generation- but look at the shit some of her nearest competitors, women like Glenn Close and Angelica Huston, are reduced to. I think the question I would pose here is what Streep should have been doing, that would be more worthy of her talents? What roles have there been in high-budget American cinema that would have worked?

[John Edmond]

Well there's nothing wrong in principle with Streep playing Thatcher, it's just that very few people would think Phyillda Lloyd would be the best person to assist.

[FerdinandGriffon]

I guess it's futile to pin down intention here, but it's easy to understand the logic of our guess. Why do Spielberg and Streep, demi-gods of Hollywood and American culture in general, make almost nothing but prestige pictures year after year, despite their ability to do nearly anything else if they had wanted to?
For prestige.

I mean, I don't think there's anyone in the world whose taste is limited to only prestige pictures.

[matrixschmatrix]

Well, right, but again, that's not all that Streep does- in the last few years, she was in Fantastic Mr. Fox, some dull looking romantic comedies, Mamma Mia!, The Devil Wears Prada, and A Prairie Home Companion- none of which are what I would normally call Oscar bait. That list does contain at least two movies with what I would call very strong directors, though- Altman and Wes Anderson- and a willingness to try a number of different genres that suggests to me at least that Streep might be in more good movies if there were more good movies with a slot into which she would fit.

[John Edmond]

Fantastic Mr. Fox was a small amount of voice acting (compare with Anjelica Huston's recurring work for Anderson) done to replace Cate Blanchett at short notice. Fair enough with Altman (and Eastwood & Jonze earlier). But her film to interesting director ratio is still remarkably poor - even Adam Sandler is more likely to have some kind of auteur harassing him.

[John Edmond]

And that still misses the point that she can make good movies happen. Their absence is a result of her choice. There's any number of underemployed but interesting directors who she could go up to and start a project with.